KarlW

Good cause you practically are!.

As for military presses, they are for the shoulders not the chest. There is a variety of ways you can do them (standing, seated, with barbell or DB, etc). I usually find seated with DB's the best, although I do standing BB presses sometimes. Just be careful about doing them behind the neck (have a read about this elsewhere so you can make up your own mind).

Upright rows, if done correctly DO take some getting use to AND are not supposed to be done with massive amounts of weight. What you say is good, means you're taking it nice and slow. When you achieve the upper limit of the rep range for a set (like 10 in the case of 3 x 8-10) before failure then you need to increase the weight. By how much? only you will know through experience.

eg Say your first set upright rows is the bar + 5lbs a side (so 55lbs) and you get 10 just on failure, I wouldn't increase the weight for the next set because you probably won't have as much strength/endurance for the 2nd set so leave the weight as it is. However, if you got 10 reps easy then you'd need to up it 5 or 10 lbs for the next set.

When you go back in the next week, you look at your notes, if you got 10 reps on 55lbs, then for you first set I would add 10lbs, maybe you'd get 7 or 8 reps, OK then drop back to 55 for the 2nd set. It takes some practice and experience but it keeps you focused.

Important thing is to stay in the rep range. Don't pack on weight if you know you're only going to get 4 reps when you should be getting at least 8.

cheers

Randy

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BaNaNaS

Karl, this has really helped me out a lot. I've switched to this too. I would like to thank you. And ask if you could create a day for arms to throw in too. Thanks in advance. One other thing today when i was doing dips. First set i got 8, second 4, and third 4. Would you suggest going for 3 sets of 6? Or is what i did fine, just go for 8-10 all 3 sets next thursday?

Randy

If you want to get strong then you want to keep pushing the envelope..
If you do 8 then wait 15-30 seconds and do 2 more right away to make 10. Then rest a minute to 1.5 and do as many as you can do. If you were doing 4 then push for 6. Then rest a few seconds an pick up the remaining till you can do 10. That is how you build yourself up. Before you know it you will be adding weight.

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KarlW

Yeah, I started my post before I read yours and took a phone call in the middle of it. LOL

KarlW

Bananas, adding arms changes the whole routine around. I'll post something soon.

As for the dips, stay in the 8 -10 rep range. You could drop to 6 (subsequently adding some weight on your first set) IF you wanted to head towards a more power oriented workout (like you would for P/RR/S). However, the original routine I posted was just something to get Sean started, for which purpose the 8-10 RR is best.

Seanp156

Now that I've switch from mainly an all arm routine to a balanced routine, I can see that my arms are definately stronger than my chest, back, legs etc proportionately. Right now, I can probably curl the same amount of weight that I can do close grip benches with, which I believe is the opposite of how it's supposed to be (well, bench more and curl less anyway). Dips are tough, first set I didn't use an assisted weight, but the 2nd one I used 20lbs, and the 3rd I used 30 lbs.

Also I forgot....I haven't been documenting the weight I've been doing . I meant to pick up a sheet and fill it out the first day, but forgot...Oh well guess I try to remember saturday.

I remembered what I did today, here it is... I did warmup sets before each of these except for Dips, didn't think there was much point for dips.

Chest/Shoulders 11-18-04



Dips

1st set, did 9 reps no assistance

2nd set, did 10 reps, 20lbs assistance

3rd set, did 10 reps, 30 lbs assistance



Military Press (lower weight next week to round out the sets

1st set did 7 reps at 65 lbs

2nd set did 6 reps at 55 lbs

3rd set did 7 reps at 45 lbs (added this set to get 20 total)



Upright Rows

1st set 10 reps at 55lbs

2nd set 10 reps at 45 lbs



Close Grip Bench Press

1st set did 10 reps at 65lbs

2nd set did 10 reps at 75 lbs



Dumbbell Bench press

1st set did 10 reps with 30 lbs DBs

2nd set did 10 reps with 25 lbs DBs

3rd set did 10 reps with 25 lbs DBs

KarlW

Looks good, did you do DB bench first or last?

BaNaNaS

Okay I'll just stick with this for now and wait for what you have comming, because before i was trying to just do a muscle group a day. but i had no structure. This is way more organized and i can see my self progress better by writing down my reps and weight for each set. I know this was not for me karl but i thank you for doing this you too randy .


edit: Oh did you want us to decrease weight on each set? Or increase? ex 25 - 30 - 35, or 35 - 30 - 25.

KarlW

Here's a rountine incorporating arms, pretty basic.

Workout #1 Quads/Traps
Squats 3x8-10
Leg press 3x8-10
Barbell lunges 1x10-12
Hang cleans 3x8-10
Smith machine shrugs 2x8-10

Workout #2 Chest/Calves/Bis
flat bench 3x8-10
Dips 3x8-10
Incline bench 2x8-10
Machine calf raise 4x8-10
Barbell curls 3x8-10
Hammer curls 2x8-10

Workout #3 Hams/Shoulders
Stiff deadlifts 3x8-10
leg curls 2x8-10
Seated DB press 3x8-10
Upright row 2x8-10
Lateral raises 1x8-10

Workout #4 Back/Tris
Chins 3x8-10
Deadlifts 3x8-10
DB row 2x8-10
CG bench 3x8-10
Skull crushers 2x8-10

My advice to Sean though is don't bother with this for 4-6 weeks or so, stick to the more basic routine.

BaNaNaS

Thanks karl, i'm going to do the current 3 day split. Then in two weeks switch to this. Or would it be best just to do this right away?

KarlW

It's about staying in the rep range, and getting failure (or almost) in that rep range. So the weight may go up OR down depending on how you go in each set.

Rule 1. Warm up adequately: this is almost like pyramiding up the weight except that you DO NOT go near failure.

Rule 2. 1st working set dependent on what you did last time (or a good guess if it's your first)

Rule 3. Subsequent sets dependent on previous set.

eg Say you're doing deadlifts. Last week you did 200 x 9, 200 x 7, 200 x 5

ie you didn't adjust the weights so you dropped out of the rep range (8-10) on the 2nd and 3rd set. So this week you'd have your warm up sets - maybe 45 x 10, 95 x 8, 135 x 5, 175 x 3. Then your 1st working set would be 200 and say you get 10 so you go for 200 again and you get 7, now you know you have to peel off some weight (maybe down to 175) and you get 8. Next week you can start 1st working set on maybe 205 or 210.

KarlW

I'd stay on the first one (maybe for 3-4 weeks) then rest 3-4 days before going onto the 2nd one.

BaNaNaS

Sounds good!

CowPimp

I like to take my upright rows pretty heavy and do them fairly rhythmically. To each his own.

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Randy

That's ok, it happens

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KarlW

Cowpimp what do you mean by rythmically? Do you mean quick?

Mudge

That can be quick or slow or in the middle, it means with a pattern that is continual and unchanging.

I do higher reps for shrugs, 12-15 reps, once in awhile I might hit 20.

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Randy

He means with Rhythm

I do the same thing with my shrugs. I rotate in a smooth rotation at a specific rhythm.

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Randy

Just like a music ....rhythm can come in all forms.

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Mudge

Rotate? You should not be rotating anything, unless you want to blow out your rotators. Up and down, just like you do at night.

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Randy

Why do some bodybuilders recommend and illustrate in their exercise books to do shrugs in a circular motion?

Could it just be dangerous if you have problems with your rotator cuffs?
I've never had problems with mine. Or are your rotators that sensative where you should still avoid them despite not ever having problems with them?

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P-funk

Well, the traps (specifically trap 1 and 2 which we work when doing shrugs) work to elevate the scapula, not rotate the shoulder joint. So, if you are trying to work your traps then shrug up. The thing about rotating with that much weight (the load is typically heavy when people do shrugs) is that you are rotating back , external rotation of the shoulder. the external rotators (teres minor, infraspinatus, posterior delt) are small muscles and can't handle that much load. Overloading these muscles can lead to a tear.

There could be two reason that most bodybuilders advocate a cirucalr motion for shrugs. One (and probably my guess) is that they have very little knowledge of biomechanics and don't know what the hell they are talking about. Or two, when going through external shoulder rotation your shoulder girdle will abduct and slightly rotate inwards, which will recruit some of the lower traps (trap 3 and 4). But, there are better ways to hit the fibers of the lower traps that are much safer. Exercises that you already do like low rows or pull ups/downs (which internally rotate the scapula) are good enough.

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Mudge

Wait a second, are you proposing that all of them actually know what they are talking about?

There is no prerequisite in bodybuilding that says lifting heavy weights, eating a lot of food, and doing drugs requires you to actually know the safest way of doing things.

Come on man, Ronnie Coleman believes he was 3 tenths of a percent bodyfat giving him less than one pound of bodyfat over his whole body.

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