Thread: poll: frequency vs volume

more volume/w.o. w/less w.o.'s, mos. def.

you need adequate rest time, bro.

If you think you're gonna train your entire body within 2 days, and 3x's/week like Arnold, and grow, you've got another thing coming.

ok when i say more frequent i dont mean every day. I mean this...say you nomally do a chest/tri day with this: 3 sets bench press, 3 sets incline db press, 3 sets dips, 3 sets close grip bench presses. By more frequent, less volume, I mean splitting up this workout into 2 days and adding other stuff along the way. So on say monday you do 3 sets bench press, 3 sets dips, and on thursday you do 3 sets incline db press, 3 sets close grip bp.

I really enjoy doing full body routines. As well, the current routine I am doing, Westside, calls for working the same body parts twice per week. So, I voted for less volume but higher frequency. However, I feel either way is just fine. Both work, as long as you balance the levels of intensity and volume with the frequency.

Too many variables to properly estimate. It's more theoretical than anything.

Originally Posted by TCD

Too many variables to properly estimate. It's more theoretical than anything.

I voted based on preference, although I guess that's not what was asked.

everybody's different, and I bet everybody could still benefit from switching between the two periodically

i guess it would be a preference thing, there is no scientific evidence that states either way is better. I like the theory behind the less volume more frequency thing though. You can pound your chest to oblivion on a monday and have it be sore for 3 days and rest till the next monday, or use less volume on monday and then hit the chest again 3 or 4 days later as opposed to 7. On the surface, one would think this is better, since you are using the muscles more and at the same time with the reduced volume allowing them to recover. Who the hell knows, we just try and learn I guess.

well right now im doing about 30 sets a day 5 days a week and i seem to be growing, but then again im a meso with good genetics and only 20 years old.

This thread looks like a damn star wars reunion with darth vader, Luke, Superman and Cows.

I have no clue which method works better for hitting the muscle. I have never tried the twice a week approach. I think i may have to though.

Originally Posted by rangers97

i guess it would be a preference thing, there is no scientific evidence that states either way is better.

This is not true, actually. HST believes in using greater frequency for various reasons. Here is the second princple of HST as stated on their website:

2) Acute vs. Chronic Stimuli
In order for the loading to result in significant hypertrophy, the stimulus must be applied with sufficient frequency to create a new "environment", as opposed to seemingly random and acute assaults on the mechanical integrity of the tissue. The downside of taking a week of rest every time you load a muscle is that many of the acute responses to training like increased protein synthesis, prostaglandins, IGF-1 levels, and mRNA levels all return to normal in about 36 hours. So, you spend 2 days growing and half a week in a semi-anticatabolic state returning to normal (some people call this recovery), when research shows us that recovery can take place unabated even if a the muscle is loaded again in 48 hours. So true anabolism from loading only lasts 2 days at best once the load is removed. The rest of the time you are simply balancing nitrogen retention without adding to it.

well, like i said, the theory sounds good, but I would like some real world evidence. CowPimp, you said you are doing a routine where you work each part twice a week. Have you done once a week prior to this so that you can compare the two and tell us which worked better for you?

The thing that interests me is that when you are doing multiple set, multiple exercise routines, even say 6-9 total SETS per week for chest for example, is that when you finish that first set, the rest of the sets go downhill, to an extent so to speak. If you did 3 sets of bench press first, and then 3 sets of incline db presses, the 1st set of the bench presses will be your best, and all subsequent sets will suffer at least a little bit. If you did your benching on one day and incline presses on a DIFFERENT day, you will get the advantage on the inclines of being fresh that you would not get the other way, so i see it as a way to improve at least STRENGTH on all your lifts, maybe not size, but I can see how this could improve strength. but you know what they say, strength breeds size, so who knows.....

Originally Posted by rangers97

well, like i said, the theory sounds good, but I would like some real world evidence. CowPimp, you said you are doing a routine where you work each part twice a week. Have you done once a week prior to this so that you can compare the two and tell us which worked better for you?

The thing that interests me is that when you are doing multiple set, multiple exercise routines, even say 6-9 total SETS per week for chest for example, is that when you finish that first set, the rest of the sets go downhill, to an extent so to speak. If you did 3 sets of bench press first, and then 3 sets of incline db presses, the 1st set of the bench presses will be your best, and all subsequent sets will suffer at least a little bit. If you did your benching on one day and incline presses on a DIFFERENT day, you will get the advantage on the inclines of being fresh that you would not get the other way, so i see it as a way to improve at least STRENGTH on all your lifts, maybe not size, but I can see how this could improve strength. but you know what they say, strength breeds size, so who knows.....

Actually, you said, "there is no scientific evidence that states either way is better." That is scientific evidence. I do, however, have one problem with that HST principle. If you do a lot of compound exercises, then even doing body parts one day per week isn't really doing body parts one day per week. You will reuse those same muscles again, even if they just act as stabilizers.

Yes, I have done a more traditional split, I have done a full body split three time per week, and now I am doing a strength training routine which calls for hitting the same muscles twice per week. To be honest, they have all garnered pretty similar results in the mass category. In terms of mass, I noticed the most gains once I got my diet in gear, irrespective of the training protocol I was using. In terms of strength, I notice the most gains with my current training protocol, as it is a powerlifting protocol.

If you want to gain strength, then train like a powerlifter. I think training methods for a powerlifter are more important than training methods for a bodybuilder. Granted, I do believe that training methods have a significant effect on how one's physique develops, but not to the same extent that it affects one's level of strength.

i prefer less frequent , more volume.

cowpimp......can you discuss your current training routine or post a link where I can read more info about it? Thanks! just an fyi, I am going to try a new routine i just made up, it kind of incorporates a lot of things I have read, whether or not it works in the real world, i guess we shall see if i stick with it

it goes like this:
monday-bench press 3 sets, dips 3 sets, db shoulder presses 3 sets, leg press 3 sets, calf raise 3 sets

tuesday-deadlift 3 sets, v-bar row 3 sets, lat pd 3 sets, db curls 3 sets, ham curls 3 sets

thursday-incline db press 3 sets, close grip bp 3 sets, military press 3 sets, squats 3 sets, calf raise 3 sets

friday-weighted back ext 3 sets, bb row 3 sets, chinups 3 sets, incline curls 3 sets, ham curls 3 sets

I thought up a wierd protocol as well...instead of picking say 3 sets of 6 for an exercise, I choose a total number of reps that I want to achieve in 3 sets (kind of like what doggcrapp training does, except it isnt a rest/pause set-it is 3 actual sets) and when i exceed that total number i would up the weight.

maybe i am thinking too much, maybe i should just shut up and lift

How about less volume and less workouts.

IMO intensity is the key.

Check out my journal if you want to see an example of the routine. Other people who are have used, or are currently using, Westside are SaturdayFever and atherjen. Both of their journals contain examples as well.

www.elitefts.com is a good website to get further information about this protocol.

Originally Posted by camarosuper6

How about less volume and less workouts.

IMO intensity is the key.

Originally Posted by camarosuper6

IMO intensity is the key.

When you say intensity, does that mean one should strive to go to failure? Maybe not at every set but lets say at least on the last set of every exercise.

err yeah im confused over the intensity/volume thing.

i meant i prefer less volume, less frequent, high intensity.

Originally Posted by camarosuper6

How about less volume and less workouts.

IMO intensity is the key.

Or, you could do the smart thing, and cycle intensity, volume and frequency.

Originally Posted by Twin Peak

Or, you could do the smart thing, and cycle intensity, volume and frequency.

Fucker took my answer.

If I had a choice in the matter, I would PREFER to go for a shorter amount of time each time and go more times.

Originally Posted by camarosuper6

IMO intensity is the key.

I agree. Whatever you do, make it count. Hit it hard and fast, then go home.

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

When you say intensity, does that mean one should strive to go to failure?

Intensity involves more work in less time.

Originally Posted by Twin Peak

Or, you could do the smart thing, and cycle intensity, volume and frequency.

That's one way to look at it. However, some people are very successful with forms of high intensity training.

ok let me ask this another way.....lets say you normally do 6 sets for chest in a week, one day per week, say monday. If you were to break this up into 3 sets on monday and 3 sets on say thursday, you are doing the same weekly volume for chest, but how would the results be different? Would you still be recovering from the monday workout on thursday, even though you halved the volume, or would it provide a better stimulus since you are doing it more often but keeping volume and recovery in check?
Or is it better to do all 6 sets at once since that will have a better cumulative effect than doing the 3 and 3?

so many questions, so few answers

the key, regardless of your volume/frequency, is M2M connection. that, and a helluva lot of intensity...

flex, whats up////whats your current routine like? i tried reading through a little of your journal, but didnt find any training, just some pretty funny shit in there . Could you just outline what you do in a week? Thanks

Originally Posted by rangers97

ok let me ask this another way.....lets say you normally do 6 sets for chest in a week, one day per week, say monday. If you were to break this up into 3 sets on monday and 3 sets on say thursday, you are doing the same weekly volume for chest, but how would the results be different? Would you still be recovering from the monday workout on thursday, even though you halved the volume, or would it provide a better stimulus since you are doing it more often but keeping volume and recovery in check?
Or is it better to do all 6 sets at once since that will have a better cumulative effect than doing the 3 and 3?

so many questions, so few answers

Well, there isn't going to be as much microtrauma to the skeletal muscle if you do fewer sets at the same level of intensity. Therefore, you don't need to rest as much. There are hormonal benefits and such to greater frequency, as was mentioned in the principle of HST that I posted.

Both ways work. Try each one. See which one you prefer, or which one produces better results. Make sure to keep your diet the same to limit the variables as much as possible. Personally, as I said, I haven't noticed much of a difference between any of the methods.

They all work, and I just make sure to cycle through them periodically to keep things interesting. Although it is good to worry about the most effective methods, it is even more important to worry about which method is effective and enjoyable. If you don't enjoy your routine, then you won't stick with it, and your results are going to be sub par no matter what method you use.