Squats: Full vs Parallel

furious · 01-18-2002, 11:52 AM

I'm 6'1 180 lbs, all leg it seems. I can parallel squat 315x4. Full squats make my knees hurt, but have read of the added benefits (better leg development, strength development through a larger range of motion) and have started to use full squats as a warmup for paras.
Which squat do you prefer, and why?
Doesn't the leg press machine perform exactly the same function with less strain on the lower back?

seyone · 01-18-2002, 12:04 PM

I don't do ass to the ground squats because they my my knees hurt too. sounds like good enough reason not to do them.

Tank316 · 01-18-2002, 12:30 PM

the ole saying goes if it hurts dont do it. my old training partner was tall as well,keep it light,try leg presses to,always keep good form.put some leg ext,leg curls into your work out.in time you might grow out of the pain.

**Prince** · 01-18-2002, 01:37 PM

We have had this debate here before, the verdict was there is no scientific evidence that proves going beyond parallel hurts your knees.

However, if it is causing you pain, then do not do them.

Rob_NC · 01-18-2002, 01:48 PM

I read somewhere, it may have been on Fred Hatfield's site, that there is no added benefit to going past parallel. I routinely go full on front squats because my back is straighter and it's easier to go full, but I don't go heavy either. I use front squats for skin splitting burnout sets after I do back squats.

Rick C · 01-18-2002, 01:50 PM

I used to hit parrallel and make legs didn't grow at all. Now I go ass to the ground and I'm showing tremendous gains. Pain is just the feeling of weakness leaving your body. Nobody said the weight lifting wouldn't hurt.

w8lifter2 · 01-18-2002, 02:17 PM

Dude,

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't want to hear it. I am 6'7" and I squat every Friday...performing strict, full range of motion squats. Was it always something I enjoyed....did I mention I was 6'7".... Did it hurt my knees, lower back and every other part of my body...yes, at first but after a few warm-up sets I'm ready to go for it...

Bottom line, stop whinning about your height and your knees stick to the squats, do them properly, executing a full range of motion squat and before you know it, you will look forward to leg day ... I DO. If your knees still bother you, use wraps..that's what they are made for. Also, make sure you mix up your workouts. One week go heavy squats, followed by extensions and curls. The next do light squats, then leg press and curls. DON'T USE A SMITH MACHINE TO DO SQUATS....that's for sissy's or front squats..

Rob_NC · 01-18-2002, 03:16 PM

w8lifter2, Are you saying front squats are for sissy's? If you don't do them, you missing a great movement that targets areas of the quad the back squat doesn't. I've seen some BIG pros front squatting over 400lbs.!!! They don't seem to think it's for sissy's.

**Prince** · 01-18-2002, 03:21 PM

You should not use a Smith for squating, but not because it makes you a sissy, because it is too restrictive, and I think it can cause more harm than good.

I still say that if squating is causing you knee pain, do not do them.

BigAL · 01-18-2002, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by furious
I'm 6'1 180 lbs, all leg it seems. I can parallel squat 315x4. Full squats make my knees hurt, but have read of the added benefits (better leg development, strength development through a larger range of motion) and have started to use full squats as a warmup for paras.
Which squat do you prefer, and why?
Doesn't the leg press machine perform exactly the same function with less strain on the lower back?

The prefered execise in place of the squat for the legs is the tensioned lower knee extension.

The knee joint is unfortunately a poor genetic design for compression

, but good for range of motion.

Gabriel · 01-18-2002, 10:40 PM

When Squating it's good to go down into almost your butt hits your calves.Going that far down will also work your Hamstrings more and also get the full pump when Squatting. If your knees hurt you when you go below parlalel, then get some Power Lifting Knee Wraps. You don't want to have to depend on them every set. So,just use them on your last couple of sets.

ballast · 01-19-2002, 10:03 AM

my squat preferences of choice are front and overhead squats.I do full range of motion for both, as I'm able to keep a more upright posture.It just feels more natural to go really low on these, and my legs and hips are responding well to these exercises.no knee pain at all.

w8lifter2 · 01-21-2002, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rob_NC
w8lifter2, Are you saying front squats are for sissy's? If you don't do them, you missing a great movement that targets areas of the quad the back squat doesn't. I've seen some BIG pros front squatting over 400lbs.!!! They don't seem to think it's for sissy's.

Isn't that the proper name for them? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm in agreement with you, they are a great exercise for the quads, I simply stated that using the smith machine will allow you to use heavier weight, without tearing up your front delts.

**gopro** · 01-21-2002, 05:22 PM

Doing squats past parallel will engage the hamstrings, hips and glutes more so than the parallel version. Which is better? It depends on why you are doing them. If you are squatting for explosiveness and strength for sport, I would recommend full squats, IF you can do them properly without injury...some people can't...they just aren't made for full squats. For quad development for bodybuilding, I recommend parallel squats.

I want to add that I DO NOT think squats are necessary for full leg development. They work great for some, but not for others. My best development has come from deep hack squats and leg presses. I still squat occassionally to mix things up, but not too often.

arbntmare · 01-21-2002, 07:30 PM

hmm i don't think smith machine is for sissy's.. the reason i use it is i don't wanna break my back.. sorry guys but i think the smith machine keeps my back flat and if it doesn't hold enough weight i don't think i have reached the point where i need to put 400lbs on them ... till then i am sticking with it.. even tho they are little bit restrictive..

and from doing them i am still sore so its not that i don't get sore from working out

on another note.. what is front squats??

Tank316 · 01-21-2002, 07:42 PM

front squats are where the bar is placed across the top of your chest and the front part of your deltoids while placing your hands on top of bar to hold it in place. these should be done with proper form,and lighter weight to prevent serious injury.

Tank316 · 01-21-2002, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by w8lifter2
Dude,

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't want to hear it. I am 6'7" and I squat every Friday...performing strict, full range of motion squats. Was it always something I enjoyed....did I mention I was 6'7".... Did it hurt my knees, lower back and every other part of my body...yes, at first but after a few warm-up sets I'm ready to go for it...

Bottom line, stop whinning about your height and your knees stick to the squats, do them properly, executing a full range of motion squat and before you know it, you will look forward to leg day ... I DO. If your knees still bother you, use wraps..that's what they are made for. Also, make sure you mix up your workouts. One week go heavy squats, followed by extensions and curls. The next do light squats, then leg press and curls. DON'T USE A SMITH MACHINE TO DO SQUATS....that's for sissy's or front squats..

CHILL OUT A LITTLE BIT DUDE,

**gopro** · 01-22-2002, 06:49 AM

Many of the worlds top bodybuilders do squats on a smith machine...Dorian did them this way, and he was one of the most intense BBs ever. Smith squats are excellent when done with feet foward and back straight...great isolation of the quads without too much ham and gluteal involvement. This is great for bodybuilders, however, if you are squatting for sports performance, I do recommend free bar squats.

rmau803 · 01-22-2002, 11:03 AM

I don't think Dorian Yates is a great example. Sure, he was friggin' enormous, but he also, if I remember correctly, was famous for one set, very high intensity training, and also famous, I believe, for tearing muscles and tendons due to his training. I think. I agree with gopro, anyone with any athletic intentions outside bb should use free squats. I also believe that smith machine squats are fine, for beginning squatters, to work on form and get the feel for the movement. I started out on smith before I could even squat 135 and moved to free squats after I got comfortable.

**Prince** · 01-22-2002, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
Many of the worlds top bodybuilders do squats on a smith machine...Dorian did them this way, and he was one of the most intense BBs ever. Smith squats are excellent when done with feet foward and back straight...great isolation of the quads without too much ham and gluteal involvement. This is great for bodybuilders, however, if you are squatting for sports performance, I do recommend free bar squats.

I think doing squats on a Smith is too restrictive.

However, I do like doing one legged lunges on the Smith.

Scotty the Body · 01-22-2002, 01:39 PM

Grrrr, everyone always picking on my smith machine

I agree that it souldn't be the only thing used but i've found that its helped me to increase lifts like free Squats, and bench press work because you don't have to worry as much about proper form and therefore can do alot more weight.

I like to do both, free and smith and no, I'm not a begginner.

**gopro** · 01-23-2002, 05:54 PM

I used Dorian as an example because most pros don't do smith squats and he did...yes he takes roids, and yes he tore muscles, but he heavily relied on and believed in smith squats.

Personally, I think the smith machine is a great piece of equipment, and I use it almost every workout for one thing or another. As for squats...I do not perform regular form on these on the smith...I use it specifically for the FEET FOWARD VERSION!

arbntmare · 01-23-2002, 11:53 PM

feet forward version???

Tank316 · 01-24-2002, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arbntmare
feet forward version???

please dont take this the wrong way,maybe you should go by a book on lifting, this will help with those ??????????.

**gopro** · 01-24-2002, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tank316

please dont take this the wrong way,maybe you should go by a book on lifting, this will help with those ??????????.

That may be of great help...having exercises described to you is not as good as seeing them in pics or on video!

arbntmare · 01-24-2002, 10:28 AM

hehe.. i think u guys miss understood me.. its the only way i do squats on the smith machine is with my feet in front.. and my back flat...

w8lifter2 · 01-25-2002, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tank316

CHILL OUT A LITTLE BIT DUDE,

Thanks Man...I needed that

I've worked so hard at my height I just cannot stand anyone whining about training and being tall.

Aren't front squats, as you described above, also referred to as sissy squats?

**gopro** · 01-26-2002, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by w8lifter2

Thanks Man...I needed that

I've worked so hard

01-18-2002, 11:52 AM	#1
furious Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 3	Squats: Full vs Parallel I'm 6'1 180 lbs, all leg it seems. I can parallel squat 315x4. Full squats make my knees hurt, but have read of the added benefits (better leg development, strength development through a larger range of motion) and have started to use full squats as a warmup for paras. Which squat do you prefer, and why? Doesn't the leg press machine perform exactly the same function with less strain on the lower back?
	F Furious is a level of intensity.

01-18-2002, 01:37 PM	#4
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,987 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	We have had this debate here before, the verdict was there is no scientific evidence that proves going beyond parallel hurts your knees. However, if it is causing you pain, then do not do them.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System. Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL (CEE) On Sale $17.49 per bottle!

01-18-2002, 02:17 PM	#7
w8lifter2 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: PA. Posts: 61	Dude, Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't want to hear it. I am 6'7" and I squat every Friday...performing strict, full range of motion squats. Was it always something I enjoyed....did I mention I was 6'7".... Did it hurt my knees, lower back and every other part of my body...yes, at first but after a few warm-up sets I'm ready to go for it... Bottom line, stop whinning about your height and your knees stick to the squats, do them properly, executing a full range of motion squat and before you know it, you will look forward to leg day ... I DO. If your knees still bother you, use wraps..that's what they are made for. Also, make sure you mix up your workouts. One week go heavy squats, followed by extensions and curls. The next do light squats, then leg press and curls. DON'T USE A SMITH MACHINE TO DO SQUATS....that's for sissy's or front squats.. Last edited by w8lifter2 : 01-18-2002 at 02:23 PM.
	YOU MUST SHOW NO MERCY - NOR HAVE ANY BELIEF, WHATSOEVER, IN HOW OTHER JUDGE YOU - FOR YOUR GREATNESS WILL SILENCE THEM ALL ! Warrior Wisdom

01-18-2002, 03:21 PM	#9
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,987 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	You should not use a Smith for squating, but not because it makes you a sissy, because it is too restrictive, and I think it can cause more harm than good. I still say that if squating is causing you knee pain, do not do them.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System. Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL (CEE) On Sale $17.49 per bottle!

01-19-2002, 10:03 AM	#12
ballast Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kalamazoo,MI USA Posts: 350	my squat preferences of choice are front and overhead squats.I do full range of motion for both, as I'm able to keep a more upright posture.It just feels more natural to go really low on these, and my legs and hips are responding well to these exercises.no knee pain at all.
	"My father was a gambler, a drunk, and a womanizer.I worshipped him."

01-18-2002, 12:04 PM	#2
seyone M. I. A. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Philly Posts: 2,562	I don't do ass to the ground squats because they my my knees hurt too. sounds like good enough reason not to do them.

01-18-2002, 12:30 PM	#3
Tank316 P/RR/Sh Warrior Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Barron,Wi Posts: 4,345 Photos: 8	the ole saying goes if it hurts dont do it. my old training partner was tall as well,keep it light,try leg presses to,always keep good form.put some leg ext,leg curls into your work out.in time you might grow out of the pain.

01-18-2002, 01:48 PM	#5
Rob_NC Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 1,179	I read somewhere, it may have been on Fred Hatfield's site, that there is no added benefit to going past parallel. I routinely go full on front squats because my back is straighter and it's easier to go full, but I don't go heavy either. I use front squats for skin splitting burnout sets after I do back squats.

01-18-2002, 01:50 PM	#6
Rick C Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: East Coast Posts: 30	I used to hit parrallel and make legs didn't grow at all. Now I go ass to the ground and I'm showing tremendous gains. Pain is just the feeling of weakness leaving your body. Nobody said the weight lifting wouldn't hurt.

01-18-2002, 03:16 PM	#8
Rob_NC Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 1,179	w8lifter2, Are you saying front squats are for sissy's? If you don't do them, you missing a great movement that targets areas of the quad the back squat doesn't. I've seen some BIG pros front squatting over 400lbs.!!! They don't seem to think it's for sissy's.

01-18-2002, 10:40 PM	#11
Gabriel Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: WV Posts: 8	When Squating it's good to go down into almost your butt hits your calves.Going that far down will also work your Hamstrings more and also get the full pump when Squatting. If your knees hurt you when you go below parlalel, then get some Power Lifting Knee Wraps. You don't want to have to depend on them every set. So,just use them on your last couple of sets.

01-21-2002, 05:22 PM	#14
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,523	Doing squats past parallel will engage the hamstrings, hips and glutes more so than the parallel version. Which is better? It depends on why you are doing them. If you are squatting for explosiveness and strength for sport, I would recommend full squats, IF you can do them properly without injury...some people can't...they just aren't made for full squats. For quad development for bodybuilding, I recommend parallel squats. I want to add that I DO NOT think squats are necessary for full leg development. They work great for some, but not for others. My best development has come from deep hack squats and leg presses. I still squat occassionally to mix things up, but not too often.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. GOLIATH LABS Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

01-21-2002, 07:30 PM	#15
arbntmare StudentDentistTeethPuller Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 309	hmm i don't think smith machine is for sissy's.. the reason i use it is i don't wanna break my back.. sorry guys but i think the smith machine keeps my back flat and if it doesn't hold enough weight i don't think i have reached the point where i need to put 400lbs on them ... till then i am sticking with it.. even tho they are little bit restrictive.. and from doing them i am still sore so its not that i don't get sore from working out on another note.. what is front squats??
	No Pain, No Gain

01-21-2002, 07:42 PM	#16
Tank316 P/RR/Sh Warrior Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Barron,Wi Posts: 4,345 Photos: 8	front squats are where the bar is placed across the top of your chest and the front part of your deltoids while placing your hands on top of bar to hold it in place. these should be done with proper form,and lighter weight to prevent serious injury.

01-22-2002, 06:49 AM	#18
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,523	Many of the worlds top bodybuilders do squats on a smith machine...Dorian did them this way, and he was one of the most intense BBs ever. Smith squats are excellent when done with feet foward and back straight...great isolation of the quads without too much ham and gluteal involvement. This is great for bodybuilders, however, if you are squatting for sports performance, I do recommend free bar squats.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. GOLIATH LABS Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

01-22-2002, 11:03 AM	#19
rmau803 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: IN Posts: 31	I don't think Dorian Yates is a great example. Sure, he was friggin' enormous, but he also, if I remember correctly, was famous for one set, very high intensity training, and also famous, I believe, for tearing muscles and tendons due to his training. I think. I agree with gopro, anyone with any athletic intentions outside bb should use free squats. I also believe that smith machine squats are fine, for beginning squatters, to work on form and get the feel for the movement. I started out on smith before I could even squat 135 and moved to free squats after I got comfortable.

01-22-2002, 01:39 PM	#21
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	Grrrr, everyone always picking on my smith machine I agree that it souldn't be the only thing used but i've found that its helped me to increase lifts like free Squats, and bench press work because you don't have to worry as much about proper form and therefore can do alot more weight. I like to do both, free and smith and no, I'm not a begginner.
	Cool

01-23-2002, 05:54 PM	#22
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,523	I used Dorian as an example because most pros don't do smith squats and he did...yes he takes roids, and yes he tore muscles, but he heavily relied on and believed in smith squats. Personally, I think the smith machine is a great piece of equipment, and I use it almost every workout for one thing or another. As for squats...I do not perform regular form on these on the smith...I use it specifically for the FEET FOWARD VERSION!
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. GOLIATH LABS Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

01-23-2002, 11:53 PM	#23
arbntmare StudentDentistTeethPuller Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 309	feet forward version???
	No Pain, No Gain

01-24-2002, 10:28 AM	#26
arbntmare StudentDentistTeethPuller Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 309	hehe.. i think u guys miss understood me.. its the only way i do squats on the smith machine is with my feet in front.. and my back flat...
	No Pain, No Gain