BulkMeUp

I am not looking to completly change my present routine but instead of my present 3 day upper/lower split rotation, i have broken it down into a 3 day split. Here is a modified version of my present upper/lower pyramid split that i plan to do. Any feedback is welcome.

tue - legs
Leg presses 12,10,8,6,12 - super set with - Leg ext 1x12
Squats 12,10,8,6,12
Lunges 12,10,8,6,12 - super set with - Lying leg curls 1x12
Calves(standing) 12,10,8,6,12 - super set with - Calves(seated) 1x12

thu - back/bis/shoulders
Reverse grip Pulldowns 12,10,8,6,12 - super set with - Wide grip Pulldowns 1x12
Rows 12,10,8,6,12
Bis(Hammer) 12,10,8,6,12 - super set with - curls (regular or drag) 1x12
Seated DB press 12,10,8,6,12 - super set with - Side raises 1x12

sun - chest/tris/abs
Chest(DB BP) 12,10,8,6,12 - super set with - Incline(DB) 1x12
Flies(machine) 12,10,8,6,12
Tris pulldown (rope) 12,10,8,6,12 - super set with - tri extensions (machine) 1x12
Weighted Forward Crunches (Machine) 12,10,8,6,12 - super set with - Decline sit ups (weighted?) 1x12

Note: the first set of 12 reps is basically a warm up set.

Each session total : 240reps/19sets
Each session total time < 50-60 mins. Target 45 mins.
Intention : To build Mass.

CowPimp

I say get a more hamstring dominant exercise in there on leg day. Squats are good if you squat PL style, but most people squat olympic style. Romanian deadlifts and straight-leg deadlifts are awesome. Romanian deadlifts seem to kill my hamstrings more, while SLDLs allow me to move more weight.

I feel you do too many supersets for the amount of volume you are doing. Supersets should only be used occasionally, unless you are doing an HIT style workout.

It is my opinion that pyramids aren't very effective. I feel you should always start with the heaviest weights first, save for warmup sets. There is no reason to pre-exhaust your muscles before you try to move the most weight of the day.

You should do more lateral deltoid work. They get very little peripheral work in comparison to the anterior (During the DB presses) and posterior (During the rows and pulldowns) deltoids.

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BulkMeUp

Thanks for the analysis/feedback Cow.
I used to do Lying leg curls for a full set. But i think i over did it and eventually it came to a point where the exercise got painful and the weight i was doing started to go down! not a good sign. I guess i shall try DL's instead

I guess i am doing a mix of both I place the weight on shoulders/traps. Stance about shoulder width and try to go down to parallel. Guess i need to improve on form.

Deadlifts are the one exercise i need to get into. I have been told by 2 massage therapists that i am borderline for lower back problems. I dont have a problem presently and am being cautious not to create one. But maybe i should start with very low weight. Which one of the two DL's do you suggest?

Ok, i shall leave the supersets only for the major muscle exercises. Or is it better to remove them completly? Am not really doing HIT in the true sense as i dont have a spotter. I find my form gets compromised with very heavy weights after a few sets/reps. But am not trying to do HVT either.

I am going to aim for 10 reps, unless you feel otherwise.

Ok, I will remove the pyramid and replace it with a standard set. Do you suggest same weight for all reps, or higher to lower weights or higher to lower reps for same weight or drop sets to achieve number of reps?

I have removed the warmup sets in some. Let me know if ok.

I shall bring in the lateral raises as a full set.

Following is my revised routine. I know more or less what i should be doing, but i never paid close attention to making a training routine in the past. Here is my modified routine. Appreciate your help.

tue - legs
Leg presses 1x12, 4x8-10
Squats 4x8-10
Deadlifts 1x12, 4x8-10
Lunges 4x8-10
Calves (Standing) 1x12, 3x8-10
Calves (Sitting) 3x8-10
Legs session total : 256reps/25sets

thu - back/bis/shoulders
Reverse grip Pulldowns 1x12, 4x8-10 - super set with - Wide grip Pulldowns (front) 1x12
Rows 4x8-10
Bis Hammer 1x12, 4x8-10
curls (regular or drag) 4x8-10
Lateral Raises 1x12, 3x8-10
Seated DB press 3x8-10
Back session total : 268reps/26sets

sun - chest/tris/abs
Chest DB BP 1x12, 4x8-10 - super set with - Incline DB 1x12
Flies (machine) 4x8-10
Tris pulldown 1x12, 4x8-10
tri extensions (machine) 4x8-10
Crunches (weighted machine) 1x12, 4x8-10
Chest session total : 248reps/24sets

Note: the first set of 12 reps is basically a warm up set.

Each session total time < 50-60 mins. Target 45 mins.
Intention : To build Mass.

CowPimp

Deadlifts are great, but make sure you can handle the leg press, squats, and deadlifts all in a row. That is pretty killer.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with Olympic style squatting. The main difference being that when you do Olympic squats, you sit down. When you do PL style squats, you sit back. Olympic squats put greater emphasis on the quads, while PL style squats put greater emphasis on the erector spinae and hamstrings. Both hit the gluts quite well.


As I said, I feel Romanian deadlifts hit the hamstrings the best. However, I do prefer straight-leg deadlifts, and they hit the hammies plenty hard. Just start with light weight, use textbook form, and don't increase weight until you have absolute confidence at the current weight.


I would remove them completely. You are using fairly high volume. I think it is unnecessary. If you really want to leave them in there, then I would reduce the volume of the other working sets to compensate.


10 reps is fine, but don't limit yourself. If you feel like going really heavy, then go for it. If you feel like going lighter, then do the same. The rep range is less important than the balance of intensity, frequency, and volume. Anything from 4-20 repetitions can and will induce hypertrophy.


That's really up to you. I have been using the cumulative fatigue approach lately. Basically, if I'm doing 3 sets of an exercise, I will stop a rep or two short of failure on the first set, and try to match that number of reps on subsequent sets. My goal is to achieve failure on the final set for that exercise, but not on the previous two.

Your warmup sets look fine. I feel there is no reason to warmup for leg presses, then again for squats. However, some people need to warmup with certain exercises no matter what they do prior to that. Just keep an eye out for exercises that irritate you in some way.


Good idea. You may want to consider upright rows too. Not that there is anything wrong with lateral raises, I just really like upright rows.



It is my opinion that you are doing too many sets for your arm muscles. You should consider doing less than 6 sets for each. If you have never tried lower volume for your arms, then you may be pleasantly surprised. The reason I suggest this is because both the triceps and biceps are heavily involved in other exercises. In fact, I might reduce volume all around if I were you, but that is just me.

I don't mean to nitpick. Really, it is a pretty decent looking routine. I just figure that you would like me to nitpick.

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That is my main reason for changing to this 3 day split. With the upper/lower 3 day rotation, it came to a point where my legs didnt seem to recover. They were sore all week long and i got the feeling that soon my weights would go down.

I guess with this routine, lunges (my favourite leg exercise) are the ones that will be the ones to get compromised.

Another option was to move the DL's to back and the Shoulders to chest and abs to back. I have posted that option below. It does make a for a heavier back work. What do you think of this option? or is the previous option more workable?

I try for parallel, but sometimes barely make it. I dont go below parallel. Should i be going lower, or is parallel fine?

Ok, i shall start with SLDL's. I shall start with 'rack DL' as you explained in another thread. It just sounds better to get started that way than picking it off the floor.

All super sets removed!

I dont have a spotter, so i prefer not to go very heavy. I find mod reps(12-15) best for me as i can handle lower weights with better form. But thanks for that info. I shall adjust the reps to fit under 60mins as i dont want to be in the gym endlessly.

My plan as well. I will try and go to failure only at the last set, with some exceptions (squats..etc)

OK, thanks.

Never tried them. I do seated rows(machine). Will give them a try, though.

Actually my arms are lagging. However i have reduced it to 1+7bis and 1+7tris.


Go ahead and pick away. I do appreciate your input.

tue - legs
Leg presses 1x12, 4x8-10
Squats 4x8-10
Lunges 4x8-10
Calves (Standing) 1x12, 3x8-10
Calves (Sitting) 3x8-10
Legs session total : 204reps/20sets (includes warm up sets/reps)

thu - back/bis/abs
Reverse grip Pulldowns 1x12, 4x8-10
Rows 4x8-10
Deadlifts - SLDL 4x8-10
Bis Hammer 1x12, 3x8-10
curls (regular or drag) 3x8-10
Crunches (weighted machine) 1x12, 4x8-10
Legs session total : 256reps/25sets (includes warm up sets/reps)

sun - chest/tris/shoulders/abs
Chest DB BP 1x12, 4x8-10
Flies (machine) 4x8-10
Tris pulldown 1x12, 4x8-10
tri extensions (machine) 4x8-10
Lateral Raises 3x8-10
Seated DB press 3x8-10
Legs session total : 244reps/24sets (includes warm up sets/reps)

CowPimp

I tend to put regular deadlifts on back day, but SLDLs on leg day. It's really up to you. Either way is workable. Maybe try SLDLs on leg day, but only 3 working sets of each of those exercises for the upper legs? Just something to ponder.


There's nothing wrong with parallel. In fact, there's nothing wrong with stopping short of parallel sometimes, and using heavier weights, if your weak point in the squat is closer to the lockout.


When I do SLDLs, I always pick it up off a rack, but go down as much as I can. When I'm done, I put it back on the rack. Make sure to keep your back and core really tight when doing these. Keep your chest up, and look forward. Start light to avoid injury. Rack deadlifts are really closer to a pure back exercise...


I think this is a smart move, but don't be afraid to implement them occasionally to help you overcome a lagging bodypart. I think supersets have their place, just not on a regular basis unless overall volume is drastically reduced a la HIT.


I understand this. Everyone has their preferences. In fact, I almost never go lower than 8 repetitions with dumbbell work. 10 is about what I shoot for usually. Barbell work is a different story. You're smart to be concerned with form.


I still say that is too much volume for your arms. I try for 2-5 sets for my biceps and maybe 3-6 for the triceps. In fact, I just did my first set of direct bicep work today in months, and I overcame a plateau on straight barbell curls. Feel free to keep it here for a little bit. If your arms keep lagging, then give less volume a try.

The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing...

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Ok, i have put the SDSL's back here and reduced the leg presses, squats and lunges to 3 sets each.

Thanks for the tips. I will try it. It will take a few sessions to get the form right as i have never done DL's before.

I think i would probably aim 12-15 reps. I will probably use drop sets for some exercises to achieve the number of reps. But i will also keep an eye on the clock.

I only use the BB on squats, lunges and now DL's. For BP i prefer DB's as i dont have a spotter and hence easier to drop the DB's if required. I have never really done BB BP.

It maybe worth considering to reduce them as i now have a little more chest and back work/reps compared to the past routine. But maybe i shall leave it in there for now, give this wo a try, see how it goes and review it later.

I am putting the revised wo below, just incase anyone is intrested in this thread. Thanks again for all your input.

tue - legs
Leg presses 1x12, 3x8-10
Squats 3x8-10
Lunges 3x8-10
Deadlifts - SLDL 4x8-10
Calves (Standing) 1x12, 3x8-10
Calves (Sitting) 3x8-10
Legs session total : 212reps/21sets (includes warm up sets/reps)

thu - back/bis/abs
Reverse grip Pulldowns 1x12, 4x8-10
Rows 4x8-10
Bis Hammer 1x12, 3x8-10
curls (regular or drag) 3x8-10
Crunches (weighted machine) 1x12, 4x8-10
Back session total : 216reps/21sets (includes warm up sets/reps)

sun - chest/tris/shoulders
Chest DB BP 1x12, 4x8-10
Flies (machine) 4x8-10
Tris pulldown 1x12, 4x8-10
tri extensions (machine) 4x8-10
Lateral Raises 3x8-10
Seated DB press 3x8-10
Chest session total : 244reps/24sets (includes warm up sets/reps)

CowPimp

Looks good.


Yeah, it will definitely take time. Here is a good link that describes the form; there is a video too:
http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthl...s.asp?exid=169


Sounds good.


In general, I think dumbells are really awesome. They require a lot of ancillary muscle usage.


Sounds like a good plan. Making changes based on results is the only way to fly.


All in all your workout is looking a lot better. Don't be afraid to tweak it as you go along. I don't think, since I have started Westside, there has been a single week where I did everything exactly as planned, although the general outline stays pretty much the same.

The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing...

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I have seen this site/video before and it did seem a bit strange, since the guy bends his knees quite a bit.

I always thought SDSL's should be done like this : http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...gDeadlift.html or is it ok to bend knees as shown the first video?

ArnoldSchwarz81

Whats up Bulk, not a bad routine, good job.

As far as SLDL I personally do them like the second video and i think it puts greater emphasis on the glutes and hams...if you bend your knees its more like a romanian deadlift i believe ... i just designed a program based on a strength routine i did with tremendous gains ... its geared for strength AND size which usually is hard to do but its been working generously for me... here it is

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=39818 (p/rr/s class presentation?)

its near the bottom of that thread...it says "JAY'S ROUTINE" check it out and get back to me

CowPimp

That guy has absolutely terrible form in the second video. You want to push your hips back so they are the driving force when you come forward. As well, he lets his torso sag into a dangerous position. Notice how tight the guy keeps his upper body in the first video? That's what you want to shoot for.


Not true. The only difference between an SLDL and a Romanian deadlift should be the distance of the bar from your body. Basically, with an SLDL, the bar should be very close to your shins when at the bottom position. A Romanian deadlift should leave the bar position forward as much as possible while maintaining good form and balance.

As well, if you bend over like that guy, then all of the strain is being put on your lower back. You're just bending your torso and not thrusting your hips.

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ArnoldSchwarz81

Points taken CP...However I have found that keeping me knees nearly straight and letting the bar hit my shoe (good flexibility) and pulling with my ass i feel it a lot in my hamstrings and minimal if no lower back at all...i only feel my lower back on traditional deadlifts

CowPimp

You are definitely using lower back strength if you are standing on a platform, as you would have to be to touch your toes with the bar. I guarantee this.

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Hey Arnold, Thanks for the input.
Thats what i thought. But i dont think i could ever bend down like that without bending my knees. Heck, i cant even touch my toes without bending my knees! So i guess i will take Cow's advice and work with the knee bending.

wow, it is quite a routine! Chest and Legs get hit twice a week. My previous routine was an upper/lower 3day/week rotation, so each part got hit once or twice a week depending on the week/rotation. I have done that for several months now. Presently i need to reduce each part to once a week.

BulkMeUp

Ok, i shall work with your video. I cant even touch my toes without bending my knees, so the knee bending works for me.

Hopefully i shall have some skin left on my shins after that.

Ok, thanks for that explanation. For now i want minimal stress on my lower back.


I did the back workout yesterday eve. I did it in 45 mins (10-12reps). I think i could have done it in 35-40mins if i didnt have to wait around for equip to be free. But it didnt feel as intense as my upper/lower split. Oh well, i guess it is also a matter of getting used to the routine. I think i shall up the reps to 12-15 and i can do it in 45 mins.

Damn crunches.. i can never get it right. I always feel it on my lower half of my back, wether it is the machine or lying on the floor or even holding my knees at 90degrees. Oh well, gotta keep trying.