Advice on power training needed!

Squaggleboggin · 12-05-2004, 04:00 PM

I've been training for a few months now, and in the beginning I made some very nice gains in strength (which I realize is typical of a beginner to this sport). Since I train for power, I've used lower reps and higher weights. However, I talked to someone I know around Thanksgiving, and, since I'm 15, he recommended to me that I use lower weight and higher reps. I don't like endurance training, and I'd much rather have power than endurance. In spite of this, I took his advice (he does know what he's talking about) and started to use higher reps and follow a training program that he uses (or a similar one anyways). I have a heavy phase, consisting of 4 sets of 8 reps; two different days with about six different exercises each day are done. Then, five days before the first day, I start the light phase. This consists of 4 sets of 10 reps with the same amount of exercises each day. I'm not making improvement and I really dislike this type of training. I also feel like I should be doing training that I like since it's my body and I have different intentions than endurance training. Is there any reason not to train with low reps and a lot of weight at 15 that would justify training for endurance instead of power?

I've had several old schedules, including an every other day routine that had about nine exercises and a Mon/Wed/Fri split routine, both of which focused of squats, deadlifts, and DB presses (twice as many sets for those exercises as the others). So since I've been so tired, I'm thinking of cutting down to JUST squats (which I have to do with DBs), deadlifts, and DB presses, and then slowly adding other exercises once I've made some gains with those. I was gonna do just squats one day, take a day off; just deadlifts another day, take a day off; just DB presses another day, take a day off; repeat. Does this seem like a good idea? I'm just not sure what else to do so I'm not tired. Maybe it's my diet that's the problem... I'm not sure what to do with that either.

Training with 4 reps in one set doesn't seem unreasonable to me, provided the weight is appropriately high; I've heard of people that train with 3 reps TOTAL for one exercise: two reps of their 90% 1RM and then one rep of their 1RM, and they make gains. So what would you suggest for reps and sets if I were to follow the squats/deadlifts/DB presses routine? If you've read this far and offer advice, I thank you very much.

chris mason · 12-05-2004, 05:55 PM

Ohhh man! So much to cover.

Tell you what, read this article and follow what it says and you should be just fine:

http://www.atlargenutrition.com/gainingmass.php

Why do you have to do squats with dumbbells? Are you not able to train at a gym?

Squaggleboggin · 12-05-2004, 06:53 PM

Wow. I can't thank you enough, man. I do have some problems though.

Would I be able to substitute bench press with DB press (no spotter, and it says to do enough weight so it's to failure or nearly failure)? I'm a bit on the 'heavy' side and I really doubt I can do that many dips (nonetheless weighted ones), so should I just work my way up from however many I can do? As for squats, I do have a barbell, but no squatting rack and, once again, no spotter, so I have to use DBs. For T-bar rows, could I just put a curl bar or barbell on the floor and tilt it upwards? About incline presses, how do those benefit differently from dumbbell shoulder presses? Lastly, I don't have a bar for chins. Is there anything I can do with free weights to get the same benefits as chins?

Thank you very much for the advice and link.

sweatshopchamp · 12-05-2004, 07:03 PM

Squagglebooggin,
Does your school have a weightroom? If they do USE IT! And dont give a damn what other guys think if you arent that strong. Thats the biggest excuse people our age use, the whole "I dont want to look like a wuss." If you dont get in there you'll just keep getting farther and farther behind. Good luck if you have further questions pm me. Good fortune.

Squaggleboggin · 12-05-2004, 07:09 PM

Well I'm actually pretty strong for my age. My main problem is on BW exercises and lack of equipment. And no, my school doesn't have a gym.

Thanks for the support and advice though.

**CowPimp** · 12-05-2004, 11:48 PM

10 repetitions is not endurance training. It isn't strength training either, although you will certainly gain strength from sets of 10 repetitions as long as your gradually increase the resistance.

There's nothing wrong with a full body routine as you outlined before. A few sets of squats, deadlifts, and DB presses would be great. However, you should also do some rows, chinups, and probably overhead presses. Just do a couple sets of each exercise. It sucks when you lack equipment, but do what you can with what you have.

Incline presses hit your anterior deltoids more. Some say it hits your upper chest more, but I say this is impossible because of the shared insertion point of the two heads of the pectoralis major. You cannot contract one head without contracting the other. I don't care what you believe. Either way, the incline press is an excellent movement.

By the way, here's a little trick to squatting with a bench. Turn around the bar holders so they face away from the bench. Raise them to about shoulder height. Voila, you have a half-assed rack high enough to lift-off for a squat. This is what I did until I joined a gym.

chris mason · 12-06-2004, 11:11 AM

Milo Steinborn used to be the king of squats (60+ years ago). He never used racks, he would shoulder the weight by standing the barbell on end then taking it on his shoulders. He could do this with 500 lbs!

I'll tell you what, he had more "core" strength to be able to do that than just about anyone today.

I am not necessarily advocating you try the same thing, but I am using this as an example that people find ways to do things (safety must always be an important consideration).

You can do the original hack squat as George Hackenschmidt use to do them. Place the barbell behind your feet and grasp it with an overhand grip. Proceed to squat with the barbell holding it at arm's length and behind you. I would recommend you get a pair of wrist straps to help your grip in order to use a respectable weight on these.

Squaggleboggin · 12-06-2004, 03:09 PM

The reason I called it endurance training is because I was doing it with the same amount of weight as I was with 8 sets of 4. Thanks for the squat rack idea.

About those T-bar rows, should I just put some weight on one end of a curl bar and tilt it up since I don't have the actual machine to do it?

Squaggleboggin · 12-07-2004, 07:50 PM

CowPimp, kudos for the squat idea. I put the safety bars on the lowest bar holder hole. All I have to do is face the bench, and if the weight's too much, just lean forward and drop it a couple inches.

I did the first part of my workout today, and I really liked it. I liked it a lot more than the other routine I was doing anyways. Sure, it has low reps, but the weight's high enough that I already feel like I'm benefitting from it more so than from my last routine. I haven't done the squats yet; I'm waiting for my dad to come home so I can adjust the weight and show him the new way to do it with the barbell

. Well, here's the new workout, and thanks for the help:

Tuesday:
-DB Presses:
-Warm up: 1x10 (60);
-Workout: 2x5 (90)
-Dips: 2x1
-DB Extensions: 2x6 (20)
-Calf Raises: 2x20 (90)
-Squats:
-Warm up: 1x10 Regular Stance (45);
-Regular Stance: 3x6 (95, 115, 135)

Wednesday:
-T-bar Rows:
-Warm up: 1x12 (62.5);
-Workout: 3x6 (82.5)
-DB Shoulder Presses: 2x6 (40)
-Barbell Curls: 3x8 (45)

Friday:
-DB Presses:
-Warm up: 1x10 (60);
-Workout: 2x5 (90)
-DB Incline Presses: 2x6 (50)
-DB Extensions: 2x6 (30)
-Deadlifts:
-Warm up: 1x6 Regular (102.5);
-Stiff-Legged: 2x3 (172.5);
-Regular: 2x3 (172.5)
-Calf Raises: 2x20 (90)

Saturday:
-Reverse Grip Cable Chins:
-Warm up: 1x12 (60);
-Workout: 2x6 (110)
-Curl Grip Cable Chins: 2x6 (110)
-DB Shoulder Presses: 2x6 (40)
-DB Hammer Curls: 2x6 (40)

Let me know if you think anything should be changed. Thanks again.

BigDyl · 12-07-2004, 09:06 PM

Awsome article and site you have there Chris.

12-05-2004, 04:00 PM	#1
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Advice on power training needed! I've been training for a few months now, and in the beginning I made some very nice gains in strength (which I realize is typical of a beginner to this sport). Since I train for power, I've used lower reps and higher weights. However, I talked to someone I know around Thanksgiving, and, since I'm 15, he recommended to me that I use lower weight and higher reps. I don't like endurance training, and I'd much rather have power than endurance. In spite of this, I took his advice (he does know what he's talking about) and started to use higher reps and follow a training program that he uses (or a similar one anyways). I have a heavy phase, consisting of 4 sets of 8 reps; two different days with about six different exercises each day are done. Then, five days before the first day, I start the light phase. This consists of 4 sets of 10 reps with the same amount of exercises each day. I'm not making improvement and I really dislike this type of training. I also feel like I should be doing training that I like since it's my body and I have different intentions than endurance training. Is there any reason not to train with low reps and a lot of weight at 15 that would justify training for endurance instead of power? I've had several old schedules, including an every other day routine that had about nine exercises and a Mon/Wed/Fri split routine, both of which focused of squats, deadlifts, and DB presses (twice as many sets for those exercises as the others). So since I've been so tired, I'm thinking of cutting down to JUST squats (which I have to do with DBs), deadlifts, and DB presses, and then slowly adding other exercises once I've made some gains with those. I was gonna do just squats one day, take a day off; just deadlifts another day, take a day off; just DB presses another day, take a day off; repeat. Does this seem like a good idea? I'm just not sure what else to do so I'm not tired. Maybe it's my diet that's the problem... I'm not sure what to do with that either. Training with 4 reps in one set doesn't seem unreasonable to me, provided the weight is appropriately high; I've heard of people that train with 3 reps TOTAL for one exercise: two reps of their 90% 1RM and then one rep of their 1RM, and they make gains. So what would you suggest for reps and sets if I were to follow the squats/deadlifts/DB presses routine? If you've read this far and offer advice, I thank you very much.

12-05-2004, 06:53 PM	#3
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Wow. I can't thank you enough, man. I do have some problems though. Would I be able to substitute bench press with DB press (no spotter, and it says to do enough weight so it's to failure or nearly failure)? I'm a bit on the 'heavy' side and I really doubt I can do that many dips (nonetheless weighted ones), so should I just work my way up from however many I can do? As for squats, I do have a barbell, but no squatting rack and, once again, no spotter, so I have to use DBs. For T-bar rows, could I just put a curl bar or barbell on the floor and tilt it upwards? About incline presses, how do those benefit differently from dumbbell shoulder presses? Lastly, I don't have a bar for chins. Is there anything I can do with free weights to get the same benefits as chins? Thank you very much for the advice and link. Last edited by Squaggleboggin : 12-05-2004 at 07:08 PM.

12-05-2004, 07:03 PM	#4
sweatshopchamp J-Freak Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mountains Posts: 182	Squagglebooggin, Does your school have a weightroom? If they do USE IT! And dont give a damn what other guys think if you arent that strong. Thats the biggest excuse people our age use, the whole "I dont want to look like a wuss." If you dont get in there you'll just keep getting farther and farther behind. Good luck if you have further questions pm me. Good fortune.
	Bench 205, 225 by June Squat 456, 550 Clean 225, 245 Dead 355, 405 Age:17 and 4 months Height: 5'9.25" (shoes off) Weight: 175(birthday suit) ANYTHING less then your best is sacrificing the gift Lift Heavy, eat heavy, get BIG!

12-05-2004, 11:48 PM	#6
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,405	10 repetitions is not endurance training. It isn't strength training either, although you will certainly gain strength from sets of 10 repetitions as long as your gradually increase the resistance. There's nothing wrong with a full body routine as you outlined before. A few sets of squats, deadlifts, and DB presses would be great. However, you should also do some rows, chinups, and probably overhead presses. Just do a couple sets of each exercise. It sucks when you lack equipment, but do what you can with what you have. Incline presses hit your anterior deltoids more. Some say it hits your upper chest more, but I say this is impossible because of the shared insertion point of the two heads of the pectoralis major. You cannot contract one head without contracting the other. I don't care what you believe. Either way, the incline press is an excellent movement. By the way, here's a little trick to squatting with a bench. Turn around the bar holders so they face away from the bench. Raise them to about shoulder height. Voila, you have a half-assed rack high enough to lift-off for a squat. This is what I did until I joined a gym.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12-05-2004, 05:55 PM	#2
chris mason Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 415	Ohhh man! So much to cover. Tell you what, read this article and follow what it says and you should be just fine: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/gainingmass.php Why do you have to do squats with dumbbells? Are you not able to train at a gym?

12-05-2004, 07:09 PM	#5
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Well I'm actually pretty strong for my age. My main problem is on BW exercises and lack of equipment. And no, my school doesn't have a gym. Thanks for the support and advice though.

12-06-2004, 11:11 AM	#7
chris mason Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 415	Milo Steinborn used to be the king of squats (60+ years ago). He never used racks, he would shoulder the weight by standing the barbell on end then taking it on his shoulders. He could do this with 500 lbs! I'll tell you what, he had more "core" strength to be able to do that than just about anyone today. I am not necessarily advocating you try the same thing, but I am using this as an example that people find ways to do things (safety must always be an important consideration). You can do the original hack squat as George Hackenschmidt use to do them. Place the barbell behind your feet and grasp it with an overhand grip. Proceed to squat with the barbell holding it at arm's length and behind you. I would recommend you get a pair of wrist straps to help your grip in order to use a respectable weight on these.

12-06-2004, 03:09 PM	#8
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	The reason I called it endurance training is because I was doing it with the same amount of weight as I was with 8 sets of 4. Thanks for the squat rack idea. About those T-bar rows, should I just put some weight on one end of a curl bar and tilt it up since I don't have the actual machine to do it?

12-07-2004, 07:50 PM	#9
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	CowPimp, kudos for the squat idea. I put the safety bars on the lowest bar holder hole. All I have to do is face the bench, and if the weight's too much, just lean forward and drop it a couple inches. I did the first part of my workout today, and I really liked it. I liked it a lot more than the other routine I was doing anyways. Sure, it has low reps, but the weight's high enough that I already feel like I'm benefitting from it more so than from my last routine. I haven't done the squats yet; I'm waiting for my dad to come home so I can adjust the weight and show him the new way to do it with the barbell . Well, here's the new workout, and thanks for the help: Tuesday: -DB Presses: -Warm up: 1x10 (60); -Workout: 2x5 (90) -Dips: 2x1 -DB Extensions: 2x6 (20) -Calf Raises: 2x20 (90) -Squats: -Warm up: 1x10 Regular Stance (45); -Regular Stance: 3x6 (95, 115, 135) Wednesday: -T-bar Rows: -Warm up: 1x12 (62.5); -Workout: 3x6 (82.5) -DB Shoulder Presses: 2x6 (40) -Barbell Curls: 3x8 (45) Friday: -DB Presses: -Warm up: 1x10 (60); -Workout: 2x5 (90) -DB Incline Presses: 2x6 (50) -DB Extensions: 2x6 (30) -Deadlifts: -Warm up: 1x6 Regular (102.5); -Stiff-Legged: 2x3 (172.5); -Regular: 2x3 (172.5) -Calf Raises: 2x20 (90) Saturday: -Reverse Grip Cable Chins: -Warm up: 1x12 (60); -Workout: 2x6 (110) -Curl Grip Cable Chins: 2x6 (110) -DB Shoulder Presses: 2x6 (40) -DB Hammer Curls: 2x6 (40) Let me know if you think anything should be changed. Thanks again.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Here is a good writing that some of you might enjoy!	Prince	Training	17	10-10-2005 12:49 PM
7 Common Training Mistakes	ballast	Training	19	10-09-2004 06:08 PM
advice needed	jackman	Supplements	6	03-10-2004 08:32 PM
advice needed	jackman	Supplements	2	03-10-2004 08:06 PM
To:Prince/Scotty the Body/Gopro Advice Needed	goldtips	Training	15	03-25-2002 03:37 PM