Chest Exercises...

ChrisROCK · 12-09-2004, 10:25 AM

I've read when benching it's critical to "pinch" the shoulder blades together for maximum chest emphasis. I had never really done this till recently.

I've found that this helps to really hit the chest, even on other machines like Vertical Hammer Strength presses and machine flyes. Does everyone agree with this overall?

I'm limited with what i can do with Chest due to an old Shoulder injury....so I'm just trying to make the most of what I can do before my shoulder starts barking at me.

sabre81 · 12-09-2004, 10:45 AM

yes.

ChrisROCK · 12-09-2004, 10:47 AM

Also, I've been feeling lately like my inner chest is really kinda lagging behind. Should I concentrate on close grip stuff for a while...at the expense of other exercises....to bring it back up to speed... Or is it not worth it?

**gopro** · 12-09-2004, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisROCK

Also, I've been feeling lately like my inner chest is really kinda lagging behind. Should I concentrate on close grip stuff for a while...at the expense of other exercises....to bring it back up to speed... Or is it not worth it?

Just keep on working for overall chest mass for now. The inner pecs will eventually come along.

**CowPimp** · 12-09-2004, 12:28 PM

Actually, the reason you are pinching your shoulder blades together during pressing movements is to create a stable pressing surface. In fact, it causes you to use less chest because it helps you tuck in your elbows and reduces shoulder rotation, which is what causes contraction of the pectoralis major. More emphasis is now placed on the triceps and lats.

**CowPimp** · 12-09-2004, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisROCK

Also, I've been feeling lately like my inner chest is really kinda lagging behind. Should I concentrate on close grip stuff for a while...at the expense of other exercises....to bring it back up to speed... Or is it not worth it?

Oh, by the way, there is no inner chest.

ChrisROCK · 12-09-2004, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Actually, the reason you are pinching your shoulder blades together during pressing movements is to create a stable pressing surface. In fact, it causes you to use less chest because it helps you tuck in your elbows and reduces shoulder rotation, which is what causes contraction of the pectoralis major. More emphasis is now placed on the triceps and lats.

So why do people do this then? Sounds counter-productive, according to what you're saying here!

ChrisROCK · 12-09-2004, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Oh, by the way, there is no inner chest.

Technically speaking...no there isn't. But there are exercises that "target" the inner area more the outer, upper or lower... no?

**Mudge** · 12-09-2004, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisROCK

So why do people do this then? Sounds counter-productive, according to what you're saying here!

So you dont blow out your shoulders. See signature.

Pumpster · 12-09-2004, 01:02 PM

Pinching the shoulders together has two significant benefits. Makes the movement more effective, and reduces injury potential. As someone who has had shoulder problems, i can say that this is as important as a good warmup. It protects the shoulder joint by preventing it from moving into injurious positions. Doing this the right way makes a difference in injury avoidance, while making the exercise more effective-for both chest and lat exercises.

On rows, shoulders pinched, chest out. Chins and pulldowns same thing, shoulders pinched, chest out, chin or pulldown bar brought to the chest, not to the chin. Big difference in feel and in safety. Forget pulldowns/chins behind the head, the pressures on the joints creates more potential shoulder problems.

Scapular retraction refers to squeezing your shoulder blades together. Many people do not have sufficient scapular control. When performing a bench press, you should perform scapular retraction and maintain this throughout the set. Scapular retraction forms a broader, more stable base against the surface of the bench, and also prevents the shoulder joint from rotating during the movement. A person who lacks sufficient scapular control will allow the retraction to cease, which places the shoulder joint in a vulnerable position that can lead to injury.

Scapular retraction is important for many exercises. Even a horizontal row involves scapular retraction. The proper execution of this movement involves retracting the scapula first, then pulling through with the arms. Lack of retraction at the start of this movement could, as in the bench press, result in an unnatural or unexpected rotation of the shoulder joint and lead to injury. Keeping the scapular retracted and the chest up and out also helps keep the back in proper alignment during movements that place tension on the spine, such as the squat and dead-lift.

From my experiences, anyone with potential shoulder problems should keep the reps medium or higher after a good warmup, and consider flyes over presses.

ChrisROCK · 12-09-2004, 01:47 PM

scapular retraction huh... No wonder i was in rehab for my shoulders for 5 months...

Pumpster · 12-09-2004, 01:48 PM

Big difference.

ChrisROCK · 12-09-2004, 01:53 PM

thanks all...great info.

**CowPimp** · 12-09-2004, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisROCK

Technically speaking...no there isn't. But there are exercises that "target" the inner area more the outer, upper or lower... no?

No, you cannot. Muscles contract and grow as a whole. The is a basic principle of anatomy.

Now, some believe you can separately contract, or emphasize, the clavicular head of the pectoralis major relative to the sternal head, which is the magical upper chest that many speak of. I disagree with this logic, because the two heads are functionally one muscle. They share the same insertion point, so they cannot contract separately.

However, as I always say, you can believe what you want. Some people are extremely firm in their belief of upper chest isolation, and that's fine. Anatomy states otherwise, but I'm not going to get into a big argument about it.

pumpthatiron · 12-09-2004, 05:16 PM

cowpump, so why do incline bench? why not just do 6 sets of regular flat bench... it works the same muscle

MWpro · 12-09-2004, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpthatiron

cowpump, so why do incline bench? why not just do 6 sets of regular flat bench... it works the same muscle

Good question.

Ddevildownn · 12-10-2004, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpthatiron

cowpump, so why do incline bench? why not just do 6 sets of regular flat bench... it works the same muscle

I know that some people will laugh at me for suggesting this, but there are two separate heads to the Pectoralis Major. One has it's origin at the sternum the other the clavicle. Incline bench activates the clavicular head and almost completely removes the sternal. That would most likely be Cow's reasoning. If you don't believe me superset Incline bench with heavy incline flies, and notice that only the upper part of your chest is sory the next day in fact if you get enough pump to if directly afterwards flex your chest and you should be able to see the separate heads.

Whether or not these exercises are effective for hypertrophy of the clavilcular head of the pectoral I don't know but I do know that it is the target of these lifts, so unless the pectoral is different than every other muscle I would believe that it is a good idea to target the clavicular head of the pec.

/rant off, sorry I just never understood the people who suggested this exercise was useless.

edit: also to correct cow they have the same insertion but different origins thus they contract during different exercises. Muscles with the same insertion but different origins contract in the different ways. The Latissimus Dorsi connet to same groove as the pecs, but it usually isn't involved (as a target) in the bench press.

BigDyl · 12-10-2004, 07:53 PM

Uh oh...

Duncans Donuts · 12-10-2004, 08:00 PM

Quote:

also to correct cow they have the same insertion but different origins thus they contract during different exercises

You aren't correcting cow, he never said they have different origins. They contract to serve the same function, drawing the arms in front of the body...

This argument is tired, and there's no need to get into it again. Everything in the above post is completely speculative; pump and soreness don't indicate hypertrophy, nobody argues that. Whether the muscle grows as a unit or seperately is simply a matter of opinion at this point.

Since the muscle contracts together to perform the same task, you should want to use an exercise that you can use the most weight through a natural range of motion; this will, imo, exhaust the most muscle fiber throughout the entire muscle belly and therefore induce the most change in it.

**gopro** · 12-10-2004, 11:13 PM

Ummmm...nahhhhh....

**CowPimp** · 12-11-2004, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpthatiron

cowpump, so why do incline bench? why not just do 6 sets of regular flat bench... it works the same muscle

Because the incline press puts more tension on the anterior deltoid.

**CowPimp** · 12-11-2004, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ddevildownn

I know that some people will laugh at me for suggesting this, but there are two separate heads to the Pectoralis Major. One has it's origin at the sternum the other the clavicle. Incline bench activates the clavicular head and almost completely removes the sternal. That would most likely be Cow's reasoning. If you don't believe me superset Incline bench with heavy incline flies, and notice that only the upper part of your chest is sory the next day in fact if you get enough pump to if directly afterwards flex your chest and you should be able to see the separate heads.

Whether or not these exercises are effective for hypertrophy of the clavilcular head of the pectoral I don't know but I do know that it is the target of these lifts, so unless the pectoral is different than every other muscle I would believe that it is a good idea to target the clavicular head of the pec.

/rant off, sorry I just never understood the people who suggested this exercise was useless.

edit: also to correct cow they have the same insertion but different origins thus they contract during different exercises. Muscles with the same insertion but different origins contract in the different ways. The Latissimus Dorsi connet to same groove as the pecs, but it usually isn't involved (as a target) in the bench press.

I said they share the same insertion point, but I said nothing about the origin. In this case, the separate origins do not matter, they still cannot contract separately.

jram · 12-22-2004, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisROCK

Technically speaking...no there isn't. But there are exercises that "target" the inner area more the outer, upper or lower... no?

CR;

Here's a link that may answer some of the questions on targeting chest areas.

www.muscleblitz.com/chest_muscle.htm

Happy Holidays.

Peace

12-09-2004, 10:25 AM	#1
ChrisROCK ///M Rider Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Southern NYS Posts: 793 Photos: 5	Chest Exercises... I've read when benching it's critical to "pinch" the shoulder blades together for maximum chest emphasis. I had never really done this till recently. I've found that this helps to really hit the chest, even on other machines like Vertical Hammer Strength presses and machine flyes. Does everyone agree with this overall? I'm limited with what i can do with Chest due to an old Shoulder injury....so I'm just trying to make the most of what I can do before my shoulder starts barking at me.
	Maximus: "What we do in life, echoes in eternity." http://kandeecup.tripod.com/gif "Success does not necessarily mean advancement;... it refers to the accomplishment or sense of achievement one obtains from trying one's best... I...enjoy the process of become stronger and more muscular."

12-09-2004, 10:47 AM	#3
ChrisROCK ///M Rider Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Southern NYS Posts: 793 Photos: 5	Also, I've been feeling lately like my inner chest is really kinda lagging behind. Should I concentrate on close grip stuff for a while...at the expense of other exercises....to bring it back up to speed... Or is it not worth it?
	Maximus: "What we do in life, echoes in eternity." http://kandeecup.tripod.com/gif "Success does not necessarily mean advancement;... it refers to the accomplishment or sense of achievement one obtains from trying one's best... I...enjoy the process of become stronger and more muscular."

12-09-2004, 12:28 PM	#5
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	Actually, the reason you are pinching your shoulder blades together during pressing movements is to create a stable pressing surface. In fact, it causes you to use less chest because it helps you tuck in your elbows and reduces shoulder rotation, which is what causes contraction of the pectoralis major. More emphasis is now placed on the triceps and lats.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

12-09-2004, 01:02 PM	#10
Pumpster Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 106 Photos: 3	Pinching the shoulders together has two significant benefits. Makes the movement more effective, and reduces injury potential. As someone who has had shoulder problems, i can say that this is as important as a good warmup. It protects the shoulder joint by preventing it from moving into injurious positions. Doing this the right way makes a difference in injury avoidance, while making the exercise more effective-for both chest and lat exercises. On rows, shoulders pinched, chest out. Chins and pulldowns same thing, shoulders pinched, chest out, chin or pulldown bar brought to the chest, not to the chin. Big difference in feel and in safety. Forget pulldowns/chins behind the head, the pressures on the joints creates more potential shoulder problems. Scapular retraction refers to squeezing your shoulder blades together. Many people do not have sufficient scapular control. When performing a bench press, you should perform scapular retraction and maintain this throughout the set. Scapular retraction forms a broader, more stable base against the surface of the bench, and also prevents the shoulder joint from rotating during the movement. A person who lacks sufficient scapular control will allow the retraction to cease, which places the shoulder joint in a vulnerable position that can lead to injury. Scapular retraction is important for many exercises. Even a horizontal row involves scapular retraction. The proper execution of this movement involves retracting the scapula first, then pulling through with the arms. Lack of retraction at the start of this movement could, as in the bench press, result in an unnatural or unexpected rotation of the shoulder joint and lead to injury. Keeping the scapular retracted and the chest up and out also helps keep the back in proper alignment during movements that place tension on the spine, such as the squat and dead-lift. From my experiences, anyone with potential shoulder problems should keep the reps medium or higher after a good warmup, and consider flyes over presses. Last edited by Pumpster : 12-09-2004 at 01:49 PM.

12-09-2004, 01:47 PM	#11
ChrisROCK ///M Rider Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Southern NYS Posts: 793 Photos: 5	scapular retraction huh... No wonder i was in rehab for my shoulders for 5 months...
	Maximus: "What we do in life, echoes in eternity." http://kandeecup.tripod.com/gif "Success does not necessarily mean advancement;... it refers to the accomplishment or sense of achievement one obtains from trying one's best... I...enjoy the process of become stronger and more muscular."

12-09-2004, 10:45 AM	#2
sabre81 mmmm weights.. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Western New York Posts: 386	yes.

12-09-2004, 01:48 PM	#12
Pumpster Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 106 Photos: 3	Big difference.

12-09-2004, 01:53 PM	#13
ChrisROCK ///M Rider Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Southern NYS Posts: 793 Photos: 5	thanks all...great info.
	Maximus: "What we do in life, echoes in eternity." http://kandeecup.tripod.com/gif "Success does not necessarily mean advancement;... it refers to the accomplishment or sense of achievement one obtains from trying one's best... I...enjoy the process of become stronger and more muscular."

12-09-2004, 05:16 PM	#15
pumpthatiron Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 639 Photos: 1	cowpump, so why do incline bench? why not just do 6 sets of regular flat bench... it works the same muscle

12-10-2004, 11:13 PM	#20
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,521	Ummmm...nahhhhh....
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. GOLIATH LABS Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
training theories - stop overtraining!	Mifody	Training	27	10-19-2005 10:07 PM
chest exercises	VivaLaRocket81	Training	2	07-16-2004 04:43 AM
Chest exercises	Thuganomics Dr.	Training	4	05-15-2004 09:39 PM
Best chest exercises?	SportinStyle	Training	25	05-01-2004 04:07 PM
Increasing bench max for chest size/form?	Josh	Training	3	10-28-2002 01:03 PM