Thread: who's right?

I agree with some of that. The deadlift is a great back workout, it hits the quads and hamstrings too..

As for your comment on fiber types, the size recruitment principle states that the smallest to larges of the fibers in a muscle must be fatigued to reach anaerobic failure; IE, the slow twitch are recruited first, then the intermediate, then the fast. When no more weight can be moved, you have exhausted all available fibers...you don't need 20 reps to achieve that

Also, a squat has a much greater range of motion than the deadlift.

raw protein will give your body more then it needs powders are dead food

That is nonsense.

Yea raw eggs is just a foolish things to do...this aint rockey here bud! And who the hell eats 6-12 WHOLE eggs a day anyhow? How about just some whites unless your looking for that extra 20-30g's of saturated fats in your diet.

i can tell by your answer that you have no idea about the chemical make of food! fat is not the enemy at all! not when taken as nature intended. tell me chum, why is it that were the only species on earth that have to get a saucepan and frying pan out to cook our food?
believe it or not fat will raise more test.. in your body than carbs! scour the site i mentioned in my last post, and that is not the only one out there.
Also if you only rely on bodybuilding forums for your knowledge when it comes to nutrition , then u r going down a slippery slope. other nutrition forums arnt always trying to sell u something!
Work this one out, if u take a spark plug out of your car it will not work properly. if you take a part of a substance away from the whole food u are in effect umbalancing it. all cooked foods have their make up denatured by heat.
the emzynes alone are critiacl to help get the best out of that food for digestion and other factors play as well. take an apple pie tha you see in a commercial bakery, it will still have a helf life even after the date stamed on it. one apple on its own in a bowl will shivel up on its own and eventualy decay. emzynes done that all on their own!

[Quote:
raw protein will give your body more then it needs powders are dead food


That is nonsense.]



Actuallly that is good advice. This is a common mistake many people make. Way too many protein shakes, when good quality food is better for them.

Originally Posted by dg806

Actuallly that is good advice. This is a common mistake many people make. Way too many protein shakes, when good quality food is better for them.

From a biological standpoint the body cannot differentiate between amino acids derived from whole food protein sources or protein powders.

Originally Posted by sledge333

I have a 16 1/2 arms and i have started to train them once every 10 days only, and they growing again. Think about it ! what is going to take longer to heal, a 12" inch arm or a 19"arm? The stronger u ar the more rest u need. My opinion!

The older you get the longer it takes to recuperate, mainly due to the decline in GH and testosterone.

I'm still not too sure what rep range to use, even after all these years, so knowing i am not going to hit the same bodypart fo another 10 days i use anything from 5 - 20 reps. this then hopefully hits all the fibre types and plus i believe in a pump. this being that the skin is a strong substance and the pump helps it stretch so the muscle inside can grow easier, might sound silly, but hey it feels nice as well!

For bodybuilding I believe in using the 4-12 rep range, however as long as one adheres to the principal of "progressive overload" growth should follow.

before i go can anyone tell me if u do deadlifts for your back, which is in a sense a static hold meaning the back only tenses unlike a movemnet such as rowing, is it really a good back exercise, and when grouping bodyparts, doesnt it conflict with legs? think about it, dah! its only a squat, but the bar is in your hands instead of being on your back! so deadlifts is more of a leg workout!

I view deadlifts as a back exercise even though the legs come into play, just as I view squats as a leg exercise even though the back is incorporated.

now before i go, i have tried many different amounts of protien (grams) and my conclusion is most of its bullshit, i am getting bigger on only about 75 - 100grms. yes you will get bigger if u a take 180 - 300grms because it is still 4 cals to a gram 300 x 4 = 1200 cals and when u see them recomendations, guess what Mr fuc** magoo is trying sell you their protien powder on the same bloody page or after. get wise!!!! if u can stomach raw eggs eat 6 - 12 a day and now and then take a day off from eating them. raw protein will give your body more then it needs powders are dead food, look how long they last in a tub! go to dr mercola's site http://www.mercola.com type in eggs!

Consuming enough quality protein is critical if you want to gain size and strength, the general rule of thumb is 1 - 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. You are always better off getting your nutrition from real food, however it's not always feasible and using a protein powder is the obvious solution.

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

For bodybuilding I believe in using the 4-12 rep range, however as long as one adheres to the principal of "progressive overload" growth should follow.

I think this is a bit vague Robert ...

lets look at rep ranges...generally i'd say higher rep ranges for traps/biceps/calves and legs in general...saying 4-12 is a bit vague and ambitious.

Look at ronnie colemen he trains with singles and doubles on his squats and deads and his working set for chest is 4-6 reps to momentary failure...

Jay cutler does about 8-12 reps...it depends on your genetic makeup...whether you have more fast or slow twitch

fast -- higher reps
slow -- lower reps

train...BOTH ... periodize...either linear or conjugate ...

p/rr/s is linear

Westside is conjugate....

both work

sorry, I was assumming that people know what progressive overload is.

increasing reps is one way that one can use progressive overload, other ways would be increasing resistance (weight), number of sets & exercises, intensity and frequency, and decreasing rest time.

You are always better off getting your nutrition from real food

I know this sounds like a stupid question, but why?

I agree with with sledge when he says not to get all your nutrition info from BB website and the likes. A great book on nutrition is Dr Gillian McKieths " you are what you eat" this will open your eyes to the world of macrobiotic diet. Lots of fresh RAW foods and an abundance of variation.

I have taken her principles and combined it with knowledge I have gleened form BB books etc. Her principles will make you feel great mentaly and physicaly, winter is already here and still no signs of a cold!!!

You will also discover some great supps to keep you healthy!!!

This book is a must read for everybody who has an interest their health. Buy it!!!

Originally Posted by KarlW

I know this sounds like a stupid question, but why?

there is no real scientific reason, NASA has already proven that. but for bodybuilders in terms of reducing body fat, etc. the thermongenic effect from whole food high protein meals is a great aid when dieting down...around 30% of the cals from whole food protein sources are oxidized...

Sooo... eating protien powder is no different than eating it from whole raw foods? Or is it?

Originally Posted by BigDyl

Sooo... eating protien powder is no different than eating it from whole raw foods? Or is it?

Well, not necessarily. However, I think some people overdo it. You need a variety of protein sources so that you have variation in the amino acid profiles of the foods consumed. I don't believe in making whey protien your primary source of protein.

I eat about 1-1.25 grams of protein per pound of LBM from whole food sources, and another .5-.75 grams of protein per pound of LBM which comes from protein powder.

Originally Posted by BigDyl

Sooo... eating protien powder is no different than eating it from whole raw foods? Or is it?

simple explanation: the human digestive system is "designed" to digest whole foods, not protein powders, so it's always better to eat food. however bodybuilders find it difficult to meet their daily protein requirements from food alone, so we supplement with protein powders.

Originally Posted by sledge333

i can tell by your answer that you have no idea about the chemical make of food! fat is not the enemy at all! not when taken as nature intended. tell me chum, why is it that were the only species on earth that have to get a saucepan and frying pan out to cook our food?
Hey Chum...first off don't think you God here...your no better then me or anyone else here so slow your role. Ya know what for my age I think I'm pretty friggin advanced considering I've never studied anything I know in a school, work FULL time, go to school FULL time, and devote every waking fucking minute to saving yuppe fools like you who leave candles in the bathroom over night then cry to me that the pussy dog fluffy didn't make it out of the 3rd alarm fire I just busted my ass to put out over a 12 hour time span...go preach your story somewhere else to someone who gives a rats ass...if your so damn smart write a god damn book!!! Yea we are the only species to cook food but for generations we have adapted to doing things this way and this is how many peoples bodies work. We don't have the ability to fight off some enzymes and bacteria like other species do...hence the reason we cook our food. Shit if I could handle the raw food I wouldn't cook it but my body can't do that. Sorry I'm no caveman here but ya know it wasn't my choice to be born when I was...I didn't have the option when my pops stuck it to my mom to say..."wow hold on i want the stomach of a fuckin caveman"...no they just gave it to me and unfortunatly as a kid my parents cooked my food. Sorry to say but shit happens!

believe it or not fat will raise more test.. in your body than carbs! scour the site i mentioned in my last post, and that is not the only one out there.
Also if you only rely on bodybuilding forums for your knowledge when it comes to nutrition , then u r going down a slippery slope. other nutrition forums arnt always trying to sell u something!
Good for fat...I'm glad it will raise test in my body...I already knew that but theres no need to have so much damn saturated fat in my system to clog my god damn arteries. Im sorry if heart attacks and strokes are hereditary in my family. And I'm sorry if no male has ever lived past the age of 52 in my familly...ever think of this...maybe I want o live past 52 and see the world for a few more years. I could care less about fuckin test when it comes to my life...if Im gonna put my life at risk like that then no thanks. Oh and did I mention I've had a minor heart attack at the age of 16?!?!?! Oh and did I tell you I was on my death bed with a doctor saying I wont live if I keep it up....I'm sorry I chose LIFE over your fucking fat and test...so you tell me if I was wrong. No better yet I don't give a shit what you think b/c I know why I do the things I do...I do it for me and only me!
Work this one out, if u take a spark plug out of your car it will not work properly. if you take a part of a substance away from the whole food u are in effect umbalancing it. all cooked foods have their make up denatured by heat.
the emzynes alone are critiacl to help get the best out of that food for digestion and other factors play as well. take an apple pie tha you see in a commercial bakery, it will still have a helf life even after the date stamed on it. one apple on its own in a bowl will shivel up on its own and eventualy decay. emzynes done that all on their own!
So your saying that everyone for decades have just screwed their bodies up?? Hey everyone don't cook your food anymore sledge said it was bad. Hey your example was bull chum...your saying the fresh UNCOOKED apple shriveled up and died...but the COOKED and processed apples lasted so much damn longer... see where I'm getting at. The COOKED ones lasted longer...I like lasting longer maybe I'm not ready to die so I'll stick to my low fat COOKED foods and live a nice healthy life. Then in 10 years when another medical survey comes out and says -if all foods aren't cooked beyond recognition then you are going to die- in a year we will see who changes their story.

Originally Posted by sledge333

believe it or not fat will raise more test

Whats with the mad face?

For those that dont know, many hormones, including testosterone, are manufactured from CHOLESTEROL. This is not to say that you need huge amounts of it in the diet of course.

I dont recall the BV of a raw egg to be all that high. Lots of egg whites in the diet can cause a biotin deficiency, biotin is coincidentally an amino found in the egg yolk. It is said that you should not cook your eggs in an iron skillet, or the chances of the dietary cholesterol affecting your blood cholesterol goes up.

Originally Posted by DeadBolt

Good for fat...I'm glad it will raise test in my body...I already knew that but theres no need to have so much damn saturated fat in my system to clog my god damn arteries. Im sorry if heart attacks and strokes are hereditary in my family. And I'm sorry if no male has ever lived past the age of 52 in my familly...ever think of this...maybe I want o live past 52 and see the world for a few more years.

Have you had your blood checked? Probably a good idea to see where you are at. In a normal person about 95% of your cholesterol is made in the liver, and is mostly raised from high GI carbohydrates, sodas and so on - not from dietary cholesterol. However for people genetically predisposed I would certainly watch how all foods affect your blood tests.

You may want to look into flush free niacin (a B vitamin) which boosts HDL, other supplements escape me.

My best friend has a hereditary liver problem, she rarely sees any kind of alcohol but just has genetic bad luck. So she gets her blood work done every few months, and is on liver supplements year round.

Originally Posted by Mudge

Have you had your blood checked? Probably a good idea to see where you are at. In a normal person about 95% of your cholesterol is made in the liver, and is mostly raised from high GI carbohydrates, sodas and so on - not from dietary cholesterol. However for people genetically predisposed I would certainly watch how all foods affect your blood tests.

My best friend has a hereditary liver problem, she rarely sees any kind of alcohol but just has genetic bad luck. So she gets her blood work done every few months, and is on liver supplements year round.

Even after cutting all my high GI foods out and sodas and such i still had High cholesterol. It wasn't until I lowered my fat intake and took in proper efa's that it leveled out some. My doctor did all my testings and such but b/c I was so young I never bothered to pay attention and my last blood work I was not around for weeks family problems so my brother just jotted some numbers down and said I was healthy.

simple explanation: the human digestive system is "designed" to digest whole foods, not protein powders, so it's always better to eat food.

I thought they made PP's such as to be easily digested by the body? Are you saying that PP's are less effective at providing my muscles with protein than whole foods?

ha! i rattled someones cage here! but hey thats why i like this site! its good to have a good ole banter here with tounge and cheek.
first of all there are some unlucky individuals that have genectical problems handed down through their generations, ie cholestral probs! but i take time reading alsorts of books on nutrition and scour the websites with avengance.
years ago i started to eat a hell of a lot more raw food and felt so much better. i have not looked back! i look much younger than people of my age, and i feel frisky as a tom cat. what i was trying to say about raw food, live food - cooked food, dead food! is when u eat a load of cooked food, it will give u energy but it takes a lot of energy to digest it! catch 22! when u eat raw food the emzynes are there naturaly and dont put a strain on the ones we have to produce. basicaly live food promotes life and cooked takes away life. i got to work with nuts seeds, fruit etc and when people say i havnt got time to eat, hey ive only got to dip my hand in my bag, not fuck off to the nearest Mc Donalds. and when i do eat a meal thats heavy in cooked protien and carbs i feeeeeel sleepy sometimes, or not so energetic. idont get this effect when i eat fruit, nuts or raw eggs etc. but hey i am still human and a plate of fish and chips or a nice roast dinner still fits into my life now and then, and i dont get hung up over it. i look at the fact that i put clean food into my gob most of the time. i eat foood the way nature intended. heat will change many things to its structure. get a book called - raw energy. will make u think!!!
back in 98 i went to prison for wrecking a betting shop with a sledgehammer, reason - www.ladcrooks.com but when i was in there i had no means of getting any super duper supps or even the food i was accustomed to. but yet there were plenty of big guys in the gym and i grew as well on thier shitty meals, all i could do at that time was to eat more of the shit, as i got a job in the kichen, but i still didnt go overboard on that diet.
and think about this - if the rule 1grm for every pound of body weight is true and people that train bodyparts more frequent say twice a week as opposed to once a week, why do the ones that train once a week need more? surely the idea of protien is to repair and what weve used during training is put back in our systems, our bodies prefer amino acids and protien has to be broken down before we can use it! cows protien is cows protien and so is pigs and any animal. but plants and veg and nuts and seeds etc are made up of aminos and the body has a pool of aminos all the time and all we do is add to it constantly, so there is no need to eat the so called complete protiens all the time. thats why i eat raw eggs and if u try eating six cooked u wil feel constipated if no roughage taken with them, but eat six raw eggs, no probs. check this http://www.mercola.com type in eggs and fats in the search engine on this site, lots of other info as well, not the only site i use but its good!
have a good xmas, all that turkey and sprouts washed down with christmas pud, lots of fariting while falling asleep in front of the TV, yeah! but i will still do it ps i know my spelling is a bit of the couse here somtimes, typing to fast etc but the spellchek dont work here for me something to do with firefox!

Do us all a favor and seperate your paragraphs

Originally Posted by Mudge

Whats with the mad face?

For those that dont know, many hormones, including testosterone, are manufactured from CHOLESTEROL. This is not to say that you need huge amounts of it in the diet of course.

I dont recall the BV of a raw egg to be all that high. Lots of egg whites in the diet can cause a biotin deficiency, biotin is coincidentally an amino found in the egg yolk. It is said that you should not cook your eggs in an iron skillet, or the chances of the dietary cholesterol affecting your blood cholesterol goes up.

hey mudge, why does cooking eggs in an iron skillet raise the chances of dietary cholesterol affecting blood cholesterol?

Originally Posted by LAM

there is no real scientific reason

That I doubt highly.

Read up on how the mind can affect the body's reaction; I think you might be very, very surprised as to just how much one's mind can affect one's body. For example: a man who is allergic to poison ivy is blindfolded. He is then told that a poison ivy leaf will be rubbed on his right arm and a maple leaf (to which he is not allergic) will be rubbed on his left. The leaves are rubbed, and, sure enough, his right arm had an immediate reaction to the leaf. What the man didn't know, however, is that his left arm was rubbed with poison ivy and his right with the maple leaf. This simple experiment shows the power of mind over matter.

Why did I take that long to explain such a simple thing? People often need to be convinced, and I believe there is a scientific reason for everything from why the sky is blue to why you're reading this right now.

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

That I doubt highly.

Read up on how the mind can affect the body's reaction; I think you might be very, very surprised as to just how much one's mind can affect one's body. For example: a man who is allergic to poison ivy is blindfolded. He is then told that a poison ivy leaf will be rubbed on his right arm and a maple leaf (to which he is not allergic) will be rubbed on his left. The leaves are rubbed, and, sure enough, his right arm had an immediate reaction to the leaf. What the man didn't know, however, is that his left arm was rubbed with poison ivy and his right with the maple leaf. This simple experiment shows the power of mind over matter.

thank you but I've done 10's of thousands of hours of research on nutrition and sports supplementation over the past 23 years...

NASA has spent ten of millions on research just on the long term use of supplemental proteins. what do you think astronauts eat ? not steak or chicken...

I put my trust in science...

. What the man didn't know, however, is that his left arm was rubbed with poison ivy and his right with the maple leaf. This simple experiment shows the power of mind over matter.

During scientific studies, people are frequenly lied to about supplements or drugs they are taking. For example, some will believe they are on a fat burning pill and not be, and others actually are on a fat buring pill. This is how they determine whether something works or not, by examining results after people are given the real deal and others a placebo...just because the mind believes it's getting something doesn't translate to the effect it anticipates

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

During scientific studies, people are frequenly lied to about supplements or drugs they are taking. For example, some will believe they are on a fat burning pill and not be, and others actually are on a fat buring pill. This is how they determine whether something works or not, by examining results after people are given the real deal and others a placebo...just because the mind believes it's getting something doesn't translate to the effect it anticipates

Yea that is how they test everything isn't it? I just read a study about creatine and cramps...some baseball players were given creatine and some a placebo and the results concluded that all of them got cramps and not fromt the creatine.

I put my trust in science more than anything else, actually. Placebos only support what I said about the great effect of the mind on the body. I'm not saying that you're wrong, LAM, I'm just bringing up that if you think normal foods would have a better nutritional value than supplements, just thinking that could bring you better results with normal foods. Just something interesting I thought I'd bring up for all to read.

Merry Christmas to anyone who celebrates, and to anyone who doesn't, enjoy the day and any holiday(s) you may or may not celebrate!

Originally Posted by LAM

thank you but I've done 10's of thousands of hours of research on nutrition and sports supplementation over the past 23 years...

NASA has spent ten of millions on research just on the long term use of supplemental proteins. what do you think astronauts eat ? not steak or chicken...

I put my trust in science...

yeah! that may be the case, only temp though, as its only a certain time period in space. - they cant take a sodding larder with them, can they?