Sumo Deadlift and BB Rows Form

Alaric · 12-28-2004, 05:57 PM

Well, we've finally gotten a digital camera....I'm not sure if my form is 100% correct, so I've linked 2 vid files

1) Deadlift
2) BB Rows

*these are in .mov format, so you will probably need quicktime to view them

I'm really trying to perfect my form, so any advice/tips are welcome!

Thanks

**CowPimp** · 12-29-2004, 12:02 AM

You need to sit back when you do a deadlift, not down. Sitting down places emphasis on your quadriceps via knee flexion. You want hip flexion; it will enable you to move the most weight.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=194dead

Check out that article.

KarlW · 12-29-2004, 12:22 AM

So he needs to bring his lower back into the exercise more?

KarlW · 12-29-2004, 12:23 AM

I can't get the Rows file to play. It's only 4kb. Anyone else?

PreMier · 12-29-2004, 12:27 AM

Wont play for me either.

cappo5150 · 12-29-2004, 12:30 AM

same prob, cant open bb row

**CowPimp** · 12-29-2004, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlW

So he needs to bring his lower back into the exercise more?

He needs to bring his hips and posterior chain into the movement more. So, yes, the lower back is part of the equation.

**P-funk** · 12-29-2004, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

He needs to bring his hips and posterior chain into the movement more. So, yes, the lower back is part of the equation.

yeah, I agree. You are sitting pretty upright. But, you have to look at why you are doing it. What is the goal you are trying to achieve? I mean, some bodybuilders will deadlift like that to incorporate more quads in the exercise (greater knee flexion will translate to greater amount of knee ext.). Basically, your deadlift there looks like a squat, just with the weight in your arms. If you want to lift heavy then you will be holding yourself back some if you don't DL with your hips (hip extensors) more. Sit back adn down, like pimp said, not just down. How is your lower back strength? But, the form isn't bad or anything. It doesn't look dangerous to me. There is not great amounts of spinal flexion or anything. I wouldn't be concerned if that was your worry. Plus, you are only using 135lbs (it looks like although it is a side view.). I mean, whatever the weight is it looks light for you. Anyone can keep solid form with a weight that is not that heavy for them (or at a greater intensity). Put some weight on, raise the intensity, and try and perform the lift and lets see what it looks like. Challange yourself to maintain solid form with heavier load.

**CowPimp** · 12-29-2004, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I mean, whatever the weight is it looks light for you. Anyone can keep solid form with a weight that is not that heavy for them (or at a greater intensity). Put some weight on, raise the intensity, and try and perform the lift and lets see what it looks like. Challange yourself to maintain solid form with heavier load.

Yeah, I neglected to mention this, but it is a good point. This will also point you toward what body parts need strengthened.

**P-funk** · 12-29-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Yeah, I neglected to mention this, but it is a good point. This will also point you toward what body parts need strengthened.

yeah, it is way to easy to keep the form when the resitance is not high. you need to challenge yourself.

I am not knocking it though. That is not a bad deadlift as far as form is concerned. If I were your trainer, provided we weren't training for a powerlifting meet where you had to hit a 1RM but for overal health ro bodycomposition, I would totally let that fly.

**CowPimp** · 12-29-2004, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

yeah, it is way to easy to keep the form when the resitance is not high. you need to challenge yourself.

I am not knocking it though. That is not a bad deadlift as far as form is concerned. If I were your trainer, provided we weren't training for a powerlifting meet where you had to hit a 1RM but for overal health ro bodycomposition, I would totally let that fly.

It's just my latest dive into the PL world that made those comments come out. I used to do "bodybuilder deadlifts" too.

Alaric · 12-29-2004, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

You need to sit back when you do a deadlift, not down. Sitting down places emphasis on your quadriceps via knee flexion. You want hip flexion; it will enable you to move the most weight.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=194dead

Check out that article.

Ok thanks a lot CowPimp, I believe I've seen this one before, but it doesn't hurt to read it again...The thing I notice most with sitting back is that my knees make a cracking noise on the way up....is that normal??

**CowPimp** · 12-29-2004, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaric

Ok thanks a lot CowPimp, I believe I've seen this one before, but it doesn't hurt to read it again...The thing I notice most with sitting back is that my knees make a cracking noise on the way up....is that normal??

This doesn't happen to me, nor have I ever heard of it happening with anyone else, so I would have to say not. However, I'm not entirely sure what it signifies.

Alaric · 12-29-2004, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

yeah, I agree. You are sitting pretty upright. But, you have to look at why you are doing it. What is the goal you are trying to achieve? I mean, some bodybuilders will deadlift like that to incorporate more quads in the exercise (greater knee flexion will translate to greater amount of knee ext.). Basically, your deadlift there looks like a squat, just with the weight in your arms. If you want to lift heavy then you will be holding yourself back some if you don't DL with your hips (hip extensors) more. Sit back adn down, like pimp said, not just down. How is your lower back strength? But, the form isn't bad or anything. It doesn't look dangerous to me. There is not great amounts of spinal flexion or anything. I wouldn't be concerned if that was your worry. Plus, you are only using 135lbs (it looks like although it is a side view.). I mean, whatever the weight is it looks light for you. Anyone can keep solid form with a weight that is not that heavy for them (or at a greater intensity). Put some weight on, raise the intensity, and try and perform the lift and lets see what it looks like. Challange yourself to maintain solid form with heavier load.

Thanks for the indepth reply...
I'm training for body composition right now, or "bodybuliding style" instead of "powerlifting style", I'm not concered with how much weight I can bring up.

I thought it would be better for me to get the basic foundations of the form down first before I up the weight?? I honestly can't tape myself doing more weight right now just because I'm limited here at home. My lower back is probably one of my weakest body parts (well at least visually it is). Like I said earlier, when I "sit back" I notice a cracking noise in my knees on the way up, is that normal?? I should add to this that my knees do go slightly in front of my toes, so I probably have to nail this "sitting back" form....

I'll take what you guys said into consideration, and go for another tape run later on, see what I can come up with before I start hitting up the higher weights/intensity...

**P-funk** · 12-29-2004, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaric

Ok thanks a lot CowPimp, I believe I've seen this one before, but it doesn't hurt to read it again...The thing I notice most with sitting back is that my knees make a cracking noise on the way up....is that normal??

Knees cracking can be pretty commmon. My knees crack all the time, especially the left knee and left shoulder after I sublexed them both. It could just be some broken up cartalige or it could be crepitus (the cracking of joints). As long as you don't have pain I wouldn't be worried. If you are in pain stop and probably go have it checked out.

Alaric · 12-29-2004, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

It's just my latest dive into the PL world that made those comments come out. I used to do "bodybuilder deadlifts" too.

I'd just like to ask, what exactly are the differences in bodybuilding deadlifts vs powerlifting deadlifts other than the fact that you aren't concerned with how much weight you put up?

Alaric · 12-29-2004, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Knees cracking can be pretty commmon. My knees crack all the time, especially the left knee and left shoulder after I sublexed them both. It could just be some broken up cartalige or it could be crepitus (the cracking of joints). As long as you don't have pain I wouldn't be worried. If you are in pain stop and probably go have it checked out.

Hmm well that solves that I guess...I hear it cracking and usually the sound itself just scares me, I figured I shouldn't be cracking at an early age (don't know why I've been thinking like this), but I guess I was wrong, since it isn't causing me any pain....

Thanks again

Twigz · 12-29-2004, 03:40 PM

would you guys have a link to a video with the proper form you are talking about, so that we could actually see it in motion? Thanks

Alaric · 12-29-2004, 03:49 PM

http://web.mit.edu/kevtrice/www/MuleDL600.mov
take a look at that, I've been using that as my point of reference when it comes to deadlift (moreover when he deadlifts 580)....but then again he's wearing a suit I believe, so that does help him a bit out with the form (correct me if i'm wrong)??

**CowPimp** · 12-29-2004, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaric

I'd just like to ask, what exactly are the differences in bodybuilding deadlifts vs powerlifting deadlifts other than the fact that you aren't concerned with how much weight you put up?

Bodybuilding style uses the quadriceps to produce the majority of the drive. Powerlifting style uses your posterior chain: gluts, hamstrings, and erector spinae. As well, your hips do a lot more work when you use a PL style.

If your knees are in front of your feet, then you're not sitting back properly. If you sit back, then your knees should remain virtually stationary upon descent. Don't be afraid to use a relatively wide stance.

If you're concerned with body composition, then do whichever one works the muscles you are trying to work.

One additional note: you can see in the video of Kevin Mueller deadlifting that his lower back is his weak point. His hips come up before his head moves "into his traps." This indicates a weakness in the lower back.

**Mudge** · 12-29-2004, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlW

I can't get the Rows file to play. It's only 4kb. Anyone else?

Exactly, their upload died or something.

**P-funk** · 12-29-2004, 08:46 PM

Quote:

One additional note: you can see in the video of Kevin Mueller deadlifting that his lower back is his weak point. His hips come up before his head moves "into his traps." This indicates a weakness in the lower back

exactley. was just going to post the same thing. He is sitting upright like you but his lower back can't handle the load in that position so he has to compesate by rounding forward in the thoracic spine and his come up and apply all the force the can and he is left chest down to try and pull that weight. It is 580lbs and he lifts it so he must be strong in that ROM, in that position. Some people are stong with the round back. Strongmen lift the atlas stones with a round back. Construction workers carry cement buckets with a round back. if you are strong in the ROM then you can get away with it. I bet he could pull more weight though if he sat back and allowed his hamstring and glutes to work more and get the erectors involved rather than sitting up right and having to round like that in the thoracic spine, which may also be lack of flexabilty and not weakness.

PreMier · 12-29-2004, 08:48 PM

*Correction, its LUKE Mueller.

KarlW · 12-29-2004, 09:44 PM

IMO that form of Luke's looks on the dangerous side unlike yours Alaric. Bottom line is NOT to round the back not even in the slightest.

12-28-2004, 05:57 PM	#1
Alaric Hungry Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 711	Sumo Deadlift and BB Rows Form Well, we've finally gotten a digital camera....I'm not sure if my form is 100% correct, so I've linked 2 vid files 1) Deadlift 2) BB Rows *these are in .mov format, so you will probably need quicktime to view them I'm really trying to perfect my form, so any advice/tips are welcome! Thanks

12-29-2004, 12:02 AM	#2
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	You need to sit back when you do a deadlift, not down. Sitting down places emphasis on your quadriceps via knee flexion. You want hip flexion; it will enable you to move the most weight. http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=194dead Check out that article.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

12-29-2004, 12:22 AM	#3
KarlW My Little Man Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney Oz Posts: 1,030	So he needs to bring his lower back into the exercise more?
	What this means is that when we drop a ball and it falls to the ground, it wasn't the ball that moved (down to the ground), but the ground that moved (up to the ball)

12-29-2004, 12:23 AM	#4
KarlW My Little Man Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney Oz Posts: 1,030	I can't get the Rows file to play. It's only 4kb. Anyone else?
	What this means is that when we drop a ball and it falls to the ground, it wasn't the ball that moved (down to the ground), but the ground that moved (up to the ball)

12-29-2004, 12:27 AM	#5
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,261 Photos: 2	Wont play for me either.
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

12-29-2004, 12:30 AM	#6
cappo5150 Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 2,318 Photos: 1	same prob, cant open bb row

12-29-2004, 03:40 PM	#18
Twigz Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 408 Photos: 4	would you guys have a link to a video with the proper form you are talking about, so that we could actually see it in motion? Thanks
	ILLEGITIMIS CON CARBORUNDUM!! (don't let the bastards grind you down) I love vegetarians, they're a great source of lean protien!

12-29-2004, 03:49 PM	#19
Alaric Hungry Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 711	http://web.mit.edu/kevtrice/www/MuleDL600.mov take a look at that, I've been using that as my point of reference when it comes to deadlift (moreover when he deadlifts 580)....but then again he's wearing a suit I believe, so that does help him a bit out with the form (correct me if i'm wrong)??

12-29-2004, 08:48 PM	#23
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,261 Photos: 2	*Correction, its LUKE Mueller.
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

12-29-2004, 09:44 PM	#24
KarlW My Little Man Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney Oz Posts: 1,030	IMO that form of Luke's looks on the dangerous side unlike yours Alaric. Bottom line is NOT to round the back not even in the slightest.
	What this means is that when we drop a ball and it falls to the ground, it wasn't the ball that moved (down to the ground), but the ground that moved (up to the ball)

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