Mudge

If anything you'd think legs wanted high volume punishment. For me though I can't stand more than a handfull of sets after my warmups for heavy leg work, and I dont just mean all the puking on my way home. I did legs on the 27th and as of today, the 30th, I still feel them quite readily when walking down stairs. They are still blasted.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

CowPimp

I took this into consideration. One of the stipulations was that you will not be doing a working set of 90% intensity or greater; in this case, intensity is the portion of the your 1RM for that lift.

In fact, I do 6 warm-up sets when I try to hit a 1RM.

The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing...

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Egoatdoor

I am going to speak from my own experience, which people may agree or disagree with. When I started lifting again six years ago, I experimented for several months with various programs. What I found worked for me was light, low intensity warm ups. Again my muscles are cold. Even with a light weight, I found the muscle fatigued very quickly, especially during the first warm up set of a bodypart. The example I gave earlier of 25 pounds for DB bench presses. At 7 or 8 reps, I start to feel a little bit of a burn. As soon as I feel that, I STOP. The intent is to warm the muscle up, not fatigue it, so why do I want to reach that point? The second set with a slightly higher weight, the muscle is a bit warmer. It can handle the higher weight, but again it may start to fatigue at 7, 8, 9 or 10 reps. Whatever it is, when I feel fatigue beginning, I stop again. Now the muscle is warm and I then increase the weight again and I am ready to start my working sets where I work now past the fatigue point.

When I am not training heavy to the max, I may only use one warm up set as I said on the second, third or fourth exercise for a muscle. I go by feel. And sometimes on later exercises, I may go right to working sets if I am doing high volume day where I am not approaching failure and thus using lighter weights on the acclimation and working sets than when I am doing a lower volume, heavy weight day.

I would advise you to try something like this and then compare it to how you feel and how much weight you lift on your last "money" sets and see what is best for you. I found out at the beginning six years ago that my "money" set reps and weights were better using these types of warm ups than if I started heavier. My opinion is that since my muscles got a proper warm up and also were not being too fatigued on the earlier sets, I was able to lift with better results on the sets that really counted.

One other thing also comes to mind on warm ups. They also give me a guage for how good ( or not good) I feel on a certain day. Some days we are full of energy. Other days, we may not be. I also have a three year old rotator cuff injury that still bothers me from time to time. On my warm ups for upper body parts like chest, shoulders and tris, I can get a feel for how shoulder is that day and this can determine how far I can press my limits that day. A couple of weeks ago, I worked shoulders hard on Saturday and when I was warming up on tris the next day, the cuff was very weak and sore. Thus, I knew I had to back off a bit and also should not do close grip bench presses that day as they would have put too much strain on the cuff. If I had gone right to heavy working sets, I may not have realized this and also could have risked an injury. The next week, there was no problem with the shoulder in warm ups and I felt really strong. So I did close grip benches, piled on the weight and made a new high that day.

On the subject of how much weight to use on warm ups and percentages, I do not use percentages. From trial and error, I know what weights to use to get to that "its starting to burn a little" at 8 reps and its all in my training logs which I refer to before I begin the exercise. My two warm up sets for squats are 85 and 115 ( 135 which I see alot of guys doing is too much for me with cold quads) and my acclimation sets are anywhere from 155 ( 15 reps) to 185( 8 reps) depending on the number of reps and my rest periods between sets on that particular day. My max squat which I pyramid up to on my last set right now at 8 reps with a 3 minute rest is 350.

Anyway, this is how I do it and what works for me.

Getting bigger is a battle and the weapon is my fork.

"The harder I work, the luckier I get"- Jenny Lynn

Squaggleboggin

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll try that out tomorrow.

crimsondestinyx

i am going to say, in a nutshell, basically what everyone else has. you are probably lifting imporperly. you could be trying to use other muscles besides the target muscles to lift and/or your posture could just be wrong

Pumpster

I don't think form's the issue for the majority; he's got the classic symptoms of high weight/low rep training. Many use perfect form and still experience a lack of muscle soreness from using low reps. Lack of soreness reflects the reality that low reps shifts the emphasis to ligaments and joints and off the muscles. As mentioned in other posts, muscular strength outpaces the ability of ligaments and tendons to handle the load, so you're stressing the wrong areas.

Also, there's a different kind of muscle fatigue experienced with low vs. medium 8-15 rep sets. A different effect on the muscles, in part because the tension's on the muscles longer (Time Under Tension/TUT). IMO a more thorough muscle fatigue results from longer sets while still using high weights.

Another factor is maximum loads done in minimal time=max. work; no more than one minute rest between sets.

*Higher TUT using high weights + max. work in short bursts is optimal re: muscle fatigue and development IMO.

In addition to increased injury potential with low reps, have never found that they hit or exhaust the muscles as intensely, despite the use of heavier weights and good form. The resulting feel on the muscles is different and with low reps, isn't felt as deeply within the muscle fibers IMO. With low reps, muscle fatigue and muscle stimulation seems incomplete; despite that use of heavier weights, it's not the same thing. Muscle fatigue using medium reps and heavy weights is more exhaustive and intense on the muscle for bodybuilding purposes.

If you want just strength and don't care about tissue development, go with low reps.

Egoatdoor

Agree 100%.

Other very good points. I lift to bodybuild and strength development at the low rep range is not a priority for me. My body grows ( hypertrophy occurs)when I work in the 12 rep range. But also understand, its not an easy 12 reps.

Getting bigger is a battle and the weapon is my fork.

"The harder I work, the luckier I get"- Jenny Lynn

Pumpster

Interesting that many dismiss moderate reps in favor of the dogma of heaviest possible weights and low reps. It's often a macho thing. Heavy weights are still necessary, but within the protocol of moderate reps and high intensity/failure = a great physique combining size and quality. There are of course some who respond to lower reps and who never get injured, so both low and moderate reps should be tried.

Mudge

Some distinction between low reps and moderate would be nice. To me moderate reps are low reps, now if you are talking maxing out or singles and doubles, those are often part of powerlifting.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

Pumpster

Sure, I mentioned 7-15 as moderate though it's only a guideline. Low reps in a bodybuilding context would be 3-6 IMO, though again it's just a guideline. I'm not sure if i'd include 1-rep maxes as sets.

Egoatdoor

Right. I also think many guys in the gyms I go to who lift heavy miss out by not using periodization. They are trying to max out on every workout. Smart powerlifters know enough not to do this.

Getting bigger is a battle and the weapon is my fork.

"The harder I work, the luckier I get"- Jenny Lynn

Pumpster

My New Years' vision is low-rep guys working out with Macho Man by the Village Peeps blasting..