TheSupremeBeing

Stimulating growth means stimulating protein synthesis. Increased blood flow has been proven not to contribute to increased protein synthesis.

How couldn't it? Increased neuromuscular efficiency would be an example. This would allow for more motor units to be able to be recruited, more muscle fibers stimulated, more protein degredaded, and ultimately more protein synthesized - assuming the individual has the nutritional support.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

jonishuge

Please find me the studies which prove increased blood flow does not to contribute to increased protein synthesis. Then tell me you never try to get a pump. It just happens right.

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"Squat like an animal, eat like a horse, sleep like a baby, grow like a weed." -Sean Toohey

jonishuge

Maki all I'm saying is given the right conditions a pump can result or at least contribute to a increase in muscle size. It may not be necessarily but it certainly is helpful. With all this argumentive bull **** you (not necessarily you Maki) will have every one believing that a pump is detrimental and should be avoided at all cost. I feel that depending on your goals a pump is something which is desired and sould be obtained in every workout. The original post was to contribute an idea on how to increase the size of his triceps not proclaim a pump is key to growth. There are too many factors which are responible for hypertory to say a pump is the end all be all.

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"Squat like an animal, eat like a horse, sleep like a baby, grow like a weed." -Sean Toohey

<FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 1 time by jonishuge on 06-12-2001 at 02:38 AM]</font>

TheSupremeBeing

Look these up...

Rooney KJ, Herbert RD, Balnave RJ. Fatigue contributes to the strength training stimulus. Med Sci Sports Exerc, 1994 Sep; 26(9):1160-4.

Marsden CD, Meadows JC and Merton PA: Isolated single motor units in human muscle and their rate of discharge during maximal voluntary effort. Journal of Physiology (London), 1971; 217: 12-13.

Bompa TO: Theory and methodology of training: The key to athletic performance. (2nd ed.) Dubuque: Kendall/Hunt Publishing Company, 1990.

Houston ME., Gaining weight: The scientific basis of increasing skeletal muscle mass, Can.J.Appl.Physiol. 24(4): 305-316, 1999.



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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Maki Riddington

*** It was not my intention to insinuate that a pump may be detimental.
The way the post was worded it came across like you were implying a pump is something you should strive for in a workout.
I was not arguing with you. If someone questions you it is not nessicarily because they are looking for a debate.

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Exercise, my drug of choice

Charger

Jonishuge, first of all welcome as a new member, see you've been broke in. I do stripe sets from time to time and they do provide a great pump( Which I like whether they are good or not) My original question was asking for help getting my arms to grow again. Needed some idea's and most off all, some encouragement. I also came up with an idea I may try. Ascending sets, works like this. Start with oh say 25lb DB's and do 10 incline curls, then pick up 35's and do 10 more, then pick up 45's and try and get 10 more. I just tried this with flies on Mon. Talk about a pump!!

jonishuge

Charger thanks for the
positive feedback! Sounds like a good idea. The one thing I've learned is you must like what you are doing to get results. If you hate a certain exercise and never do it you will never grow. Good luck with the triceps.

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"Squat like an animal, eat like a horse, sleep like a baby, grow like a weed." -Sean Toohey

TheSupremeBeing

Not to beat the dead horse, but...

"I think some might find this study (review) somewhat surprising (as I did) but I thought I would post a review (as I did in another site) suggesting that at least with respect to early SIZE gains, isolation movements may be more productive than compound movements. You will note this counters the one study mentioned previously in a previous post that argued that there were no benefits with the addition of isolation movements. In one fairly recent paper (Chilibeck, 1998) the authors compared the effects of isolation (single-joint) versus compound (multiple-joint) movements with respect to stimulating muscle SIZE gains. Note the authors were interested in hypertrophy adaptations not strength adaptations. While their study was arguably confounded their review of the literature suggested that:

1. Early and greater size gains with isolation movements:

"A review of training studies using either simple single-joint or complex multi-joint exercises, outlined below, supports our finding that muscle hypertrophy occurs earlier when simpler exercises are performed. In females who trained with simple single-joint exercises, hypertrophy occurred early whether leg or upper body exercises were performed. Quadriceps CSA, as measured by ultrasound (Young, 1983) or magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) (Higbie, 1996)increased by 5-6.6% following 5-10 weeks of unilateral knee extension training, and upper arm CSA, as measured by CT, increased by 5.4-7.9% following 6-16 weeks of elbow flexor or extensor training (Cureton, 1988; Davies, 1988). Similar degrees of early hypertrophy have been observed in males following training with single-joint exercises: Quadriceps CSA, as measured by MRI (Narici, 1989) or CT (Jones, 1987), increased by 5- 8.5% following 9-12 weeks of unilateral knee flexion training, and upper arm CSA, as measured by CT (Cureton, 1988; Brown, 1990)or MRI (McCall, 1996), increased 7.9-17.4% following 12-16 weeks of elbow flexion or extension training."

2. Lack of or a lower level of early size gains with compound movements: "In contrast to the above training studies employing simpler exercises, training programs using complex exercises have resulted in little or no muscle hypertrophy early in training. Females who trained using mainly multi-joint exercises of squats and leg press had significant changes in lower extremity strength by 8-16 weeks, but no change in thigh girth or CSA (Cureton, 1988; Staron, 1989). Studies of males who trained using mainly squat or leg press exercises have, similarly, resulted in significant gains in strength, but little hypertrophy after 7-16 weeks of training when quadriceps CSA was measured by ultrasound (Dons, 1979) or CT (Cureton, 1988;Brown, 1990), or when muscle fibre size was measured from biopsy samples (Hakkinen, 1983). Thus, it seems that muscle hypertrophy is delayed when complex exercises are used for training. This may be due to a more prolonged neural adaptation compared to simpler exercises."

3. Greater motor unit activation for a given muscle with isolation movements: "During simple exercises, motor unit activation, as determined by the interpolated-twitch technique, is close to 100% in the untrained state and changes little with training. Determination of motor unit activation during complex exercises would be technically difficult, but it is possible that when compared to simple exercises, activation is not as complete and an increase in this parameter would require longer training periods." This is also supported by at least one other study which found that an isolation exercise (say tricep extension) completed before a compound movement (say bench press) that also used the same muscle, had a greater force decrement in compound exercise than the converse (i.e. bench press completed before tricep extensions had less of an effect on tricep extension performance). This may suggest that triceps are more wasted with the tricep extension exercise than with the bench press."






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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

walter

sbeingbig, or what ever your name is-you type all of this knowledgable stuff about weight training, so why don't u use it towards your body? You don't understand that everybody's body is different. Some may get great gains doing the same exercises, reps, weight as others, but then some people won't. Some may get results with high weight, low reps, others low weight high reps. It all depends on the person

Mule

Well I dont know the book did say that!!!!


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Im an Iron Addict!

TheSupremeBeing

Maybe if you stopped making up bullsh*t on online discussion boards to combat your obvious depression and/or mental illness you could get some real help. It's also funny, that you after 5 years (or whatever) of training is still a fragile 130lbs, i can quickly dig up numerous idiotic posts of yours on mm.com in which you have lied about your stats and lifts and just plain display idiocy. You need to get some mental help, bud.



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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

TheSupremeBeing

Oh, by the way...

This whole everybody is different thing has been blown so far out of porportion it's ridiculous. We all are human, and all of our bodies will adapt in a similar way. The only thing that individuality determines is the rate and magniture of these adpatations. Of course, there are numerous anatomical variances (i.e. lever length, fiber type ratio, etc) but we all will respond to training similarly.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

walter

sorry, but I do not lie. Actually I put up 340 there a month ago. Pretty weak know, havent' lifted 4 days a week for like a month, cause I just go married. Probably can only do like 315-which is also impressive, but not comapred to my 340. I guess I just know how to lift. Maybe if you lifted heavy weight and less reps, and stop arching your back you could get some results. Well If you want an tips just ask
-walt

Maki Riddington

340 on bench?
If it's bench youre talking about there's nothing wrong with arching your back.

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Exercise, my drug of choice

walter

nothing wrong, except if your butt comes off the bench