Thread: HST or WSB...which routine should i do next?

Either program is worth giving a shot for gaining muscle. The reason you gained no size on your first attempt at Westside was b/c you didn't ingest enough calories. Quite a few people find Westside to be a solid program for gaining muscle mass.

to get bigger n stronger you got to really get the calories into you. then when you workout dont overtrain, use weights where you can only get between 4-8 reps out,anymore than this and the weight is too light and you need to move up. also dp no more than 12 sets on any 1 bodypart. give it a go and see if you gain size

Originally Posted by KPorter

i've been training for awhile now, but i'm looking for something new. i tried a Westside Barbell type program before, and i actually got very strong during it, but i don't think i did it right because only my bench increased, while my squat and DL didn't. plus i didn't gain much size, if any.
my goal is to get bigger and gain some weight, along with getting a bit stronger too, but thats not as important right now. so would Hypertrohpy Specific Training be a better choice?
what are some of your experiences with either routine?

chances are you didn't get bigger because you didn't eat enough. Only your bench went up because you probably trained your squat and deadlift incorrectly. there is no way that you can't progress your squat or deadlift on that program, it is geered towards that.


that being said both programs are challenging and interesting.

any links to these programs?

i like the look of HST http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html, i made good gains on full body WOs

Originally Posted by stu21Ldn

i like the look of HST http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html, i made good gains on full body WOs

great article thanks. I think I'll have to try this out after my current p/rr/s routine....even though this seems to be working well for me too. I'm all for trying other things.

Can someone explain how to use the HST calculator on the site though? I'm a bit confused as to how to figure out all the necessary poundages, reps, etc.

Thanks.

I'm getting ready to start the HST program myself, but I am a little confused by it. Once you establish your 15 rep maximums, why would you back out weight to start out at? Shouldn't you start with your 15 rep max and go up from there? It seems foolish to build up to your 15 rep max, when you are already there.

Originally Posted by P-funk

chances are you didn't get bigger because you didn't eat enough. Only your bench went up because you probably trained your squat and deadlift incorrectly. there is no way that you can't progress your squat or deadlift on that program, it is geered towards that.

Size doesn't come out of thin air, indeedy. Westsiders are known for squats and deads, NOT bench

So, agreed.

Originally Posted by ChrisROCK

great article thanks. I think I'll have to try this out after my current p/rr/s routine....even though this seems to be working well for me too. I'm all for trying other things.

Can someone explain how to use the HST calculator on the site though? I'm a bit confused as to how to figure out all the necessary poundages, reps, etc.

Thanks.

just enter your 15 rm for any given lift in the yellow column (#6), then where it says inc (increment) put the number of pounds you want to increase by (ex: 5, 10, 15, etc). now press calculate.

yep, figured it out...thanks!

why you submax

I just got finished with a cycle and a half of Westside. I am now just starting to use HST. Unfortunately, I cannot give definitive feedback on the effectiveness of HST yet, although I do think it looks scientifically sound (So do my ridiculously sore hamstrings).

If your primary goal is to get bigger, then you should probably try giving HST a shot first. However, making sure you diet is in check is key. I have gained 8 pounds in the last month, while remaining quite lean. This was doing WSB. The difference is that the last month I increased my calories by 500 per day over what I was eating previously. My strength gains were astronomical, and I somehow doubt you properly trained your squat and deadlift if they did not improve.

Also check out German volume training, which i believe is what HST is based off of.

I was curious if any of you heavy lifters and powerlifters knew of a program that had WSB routines for dead/squat and one for bench that was better than theirs...so far my deadlift is kicking the hell out of everything else and its obviously my favorite lift, my bench is teatering between 290 and 300 and my squat is around 340...

Originally Posted by stu21Ldn

i made good gains on full body WOs

same here, i'm thinking of going back to full body WOs, each BP once a week just ain't enough for me personally

WSB, HST and GVT are all very different

for strength... WSB > HST > GVT

for mass... WSB < HST < GVT

depends what your goals are

Originally Posted by young d

WSB, HST and GVT are all very different

for strength... WSB > HST > GVT

for mass... WSB < HST < GVT

depends what your goals are

I think that is highly inaccurate. It is impossible to quantify which routine is better for gaining mass.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I think that is highly inaccurate. It is impossible to quantify which routine is better for gaining mass.

I agree, to many things affect hypertrophy to say that anyone rep range or way of training is optimal.

I'd say for mass, any kind of long term consoldiated training is bad (unless the consolidated training succesfully relates all variable measurements to a person specifically, as an individual).

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

I'd say for mass, any kind of long term consoldiated training is bad (unless the consolidated training succesfully relates all variable measurements to a person specifically, as an individual).

Yeah. That's why we typically tweak programs to fit us better as an individual. However, I do like following a cut and dry program through a cycle or two. It's hard to adjust something you haven't attempted to perform in the standard way.

Like others have said, your diet was not right, or your would have grown. Just remember that no matter what program you choose, the ultimate goal of a work out is to damage muscle, not build it.

Muscle is built when resting and repairing, and your body uses calories to do it - working out is only done to cause damage to muscle. Eating is far more important than most people want to admit.

wow....that first day DESTROYED me. i thought i was going to puke, i couldn't even finish the last few exercises. i guess the fact that i'm getting a cold, and i haven't been to the gym in about 2 weeks really made it that hard.
but shit, those 15 rep squats, even with a light weight still killed me.

did anyone else have trouble getting used to doing 15 reps for all exercises (especially when you've never trained with that high of reps)?
also, i'm doing about 12 exercises per workout (well not today, haha), is that too much? or should i shed a few?

How many sets per exercise?

2 for squats and bench, 1 for everything else.

Originally Posted by KPorter

wow....that first day DESTROYED me. i thought i was going to puke, i couldn't even finish the last few exercises. i guess the fact that i'm getting a cold, and i haven't been to the gym in about 2 weeks really made it that hard.
but shit, those 15 rep squats, even with a light weight still killed me.

did anyone else have trouble getting used to doing 15 reps for all exercises (especially when you've never trained with that high of reps)?
also, i'm doing about 12 exercises per workout (well not today, haha), is that too much? or should i shed a few?

Sounds like alot...but list exactly what you're doing for us to better say...

i pretty much just used the sample program off of the web site, but here it is for easy reference:

LEGS:
Squat 2x15
leg curl 1x15
Calf raises 1x15

CHEST:
Decline bench 2x15
fly machine 1x15

BACK:
wide grip pull-ups 2xfailure (could only get 8)

TRAPS:
shrugs 1x15 <----made it to here

SHOULDER:
lateral raise 1x15
DB shoulder press 1x15

BIS:
BB curl 2x15

TRIS:
Tricep push downs 2x15

ABS:
sit-up 2x15

Today was Day 1 for me. Program was:

Squat 2x15
Leg Curl 2x15
Bench 2x15
Dips 2x15
Bent Over Rows 2x15
Pullups 2xfailure
DB Shrugs 2x15
Rear Delt 2x15
DB Curls 2x15
Tricep rope pulldown 2x15
Standing Calf Raises 2x15
Abs (swiss ball crunches) 2x15


All I have to say is 15 reps is brutal. Any comments on the exercises used (missing anything, etc.) would be appreciated.

mets...how much rest between sets? and how long did the entire workout take you...lotsa sets there!

I worked out with two other guys, so for the bigger exercises the rest period was the time that the other two guys were doing their set. For the otheres, like the DB exercises, we did them at the same time, and the rest period was 30 seconds between sets. The entire workout took just over one hour, but it was the first day, so I expect it to go smoother as we get into it more.

It was kind of strange doing some of the exercises with such a low weight, considering we used 5 lb increments off of a 15 rep max, but I think I will get the real feedback when I try to get out of bed tomorrow morning, or when we start day 2 on Wednesday.