CancerNV

I never do either of them and I think Im finally hitting a platou on my bench. How necessary are they and what do they do exactly? It almost seems like both of them would hurt your workout. Please help. Thanks.

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Mudge

Warmups are for safety. I didn't always do them but rest assured these days I have to. If you dont warm up you are asking for trouble, you will feel it when you are older and/or stronger. In fact I can't even perform a max lift without a warmup, my CNS is not ready. Warmups are an absolute REQUIREMENT for me without question. It doesn't mean I spend 20 minutes doing them, but it means they have to be done in some capacity.

Pyramids? Old bodybuilding stuff, I dont do that personally. I suppose if you wanted you could almost call your warmups part of the ramp up, and then drop sets afterwards as you get weaker, a sort of pyramid scheme. Pyramids and pre-exaust and that sort of thing dont really interest me at this point, never have.

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KarlW

What Mudge said exactly.

What this means is that when we drop a ball and it falls to the ground, it wasn't the ball that moved (down to the ground), but the ground that moved (up to the ball)

CursedOne

Pyramiding your weight means adding weight as you go through your sets of a particular exercise.

for example, my routine when i incline barbell press goes like this (on a heavy day)

bar x a bunch
135 x 12
185 x 8
225 x 8
275 x 5
295 x 3
315 x 1

i consider the first three sets warming up, if im already warm ill skip some of it. personally, if i warm up a bit then go straight for 295 or 315 it just dont work. i have to build up to it, like get my muscles ready or something. some people just walk in the gym and throw their max weight on the thing and go, but i just cant do it.



progressive resistance is purported to provide a physiological response in your body which helps release GH and make you grow, by making your muscles expect greater and greater loads. its sure as hell worked for me, my freinds and folks at my gym swear im on steroids.


Bring it Karl

BulkMeUp

What would you consider a warmup? 40-50% of the weight used for regular sets? with how many reps? Is it diff for diff bodyparts?

KarlW

3

hahahahaha........ok that jokes old now.

Nor you shouldn't. What you do is cool. Each to their own. Now I would more likely do this:

Let's say I'm training on a triple rep day:

bar x a bunch
135 x 8
185 x 5
225 x 3
275 x 1
295 x 4 (less fatigued so you'd get 4 reps at 295)
295 x 3 (as a guess)
285 x 3 (as a guess)

Notice the warm up sets have less reps. I am not as fatigued by the time I'm pushing 295, the heaviest for my 3 reps. I don't personally put up these numbers cause I'm a weakling but I kept it similar for comparison.

Dude, I think you've got this concept mixed up. PR is about adding poundage from week to week, not set to set. I mean whatever, I've used pyramids in the past.

What this means is that when we drop a ball and it falls to the ground, it wasn't the ball that moved (down to the ground), but the ground that moved (up to the ball)

CursedOne

the reason it doesnt work for karl is because he puts the weights on backwards.

Mudge

It depends really on your needs. There are 800 pound benchers who start with the bar. You dont want to overdo your warmups either if it affects your workout, so its a balancing act based on trial and error. Lately my bench warmups are 135x10, 225x5, 225x5, 315x1, then I will go onto my work sets. For legs I have had to reduce my warmup sets because I was throwing up, if I didn't throw up, it would simply preclude me from being able to do any more lifts during that day because I'd feel so blown.

I have gone as high as I think 7, or possibly 8 sets for bench as an example, when I was having some shoulder issues. I would start with the bar to get the joints going, then 135, 185, 225, 275, and so on.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
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Mudge

That is a ramp, not a pyramid. Draw a pyramid and stick to 2 dimensions, you have an ramp up and a ramp down. That is a pyramid.

Since I train almost every set to failure or close, there are lots of movements where I will have to lower the weight anyway, almost creating a pyramid effect - although not on purpose, by neccessity.

For legs this is not the case, because I am so busy getting my body ready to cooperate and actually lift the weight. Other lifts like bench and back, I will start sliding back downhill after my initial warmup, and early working sets. My leg stuff is basically heavy warmups working up to an "all out" set, then I have to quit after that.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

Mudge

Doing some quick searching, it looks like a lot of people pyramid with the weight to simply lower the rep count per set AFTER warmups are completed, 8/6/4/1 etc, to hit that either rest periods would be very short or weight would be added at each set.

And like I said earlier:

So you can pyramid rep count, weights, your hair, or whatever.

There are even sawtooth sets, lots of ideas out there.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:C...mid+sets&hl=en

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

BulkMeUp

Thanks Mudge.
Presently am training more for Hyperthrophy rather than Strength.

Ok i understand. Moderation is the key.
So you do 4sets of warm ups (as per this example)? did i get that right? I thought 1 set would be adequate.

CursedOne

well, ok, i am using the term 'pyramid' and 'reverse pyramid' as i had learned them from reading a few years worth of Flex and M&F (as well as various other books and such), which i know we all think are mostly crap magazines, but that is where i get it. in those mags there are always 2 or more 'pro's' workouts articles with the pro's talking about them, and they almost always go up in weight with each successive set. i do know these guys are all on gear so i have to take their advice with a grain of salt. also i have read several articles recently debating the effectiveness of the standard pyramid or reverse, i.e., going up in weight and never going down, or, starting at the top (after warming up) and taking weight off as you progress through your sets.

my aim here is only to gain knowledge and learn. i think i might try reverse pyramiding soon to see how it works, or maybe static sets like others favor. i have still been gaining weight and strength with my current system though, so maybe ill wait for a plateau.

Mudge

When I wasn't as strong I felt fine with one or two rather lame warmup sets, now I just can't get by with that. If you feel safe and really warmed up after one good warmup, maybe you are right. If you can bench 225, maybe 135x10 is sufficient I have found myself under as much as 455 on the flat WITH a spotter of course, if you can crawl under that with only one warmup set, get your CNS to cooperate and fire that weight up, and not feel a hint of pain or strain, you have better genetics than I do.

One some days I will even do shoulder and tricep stuff directly to warm up, it definitely depends what I'm feeling that day. I have had weird sensations in my pecs as well from strains, so I just do what I need to do for myself. I used to go into the gym years ago and straight away break into work sets, there is no way I could do that now. I'd fail on the lift AND hurt myself. Even if I didn't hurt myself "badly" it might be enough to damage my training for 2-3 weeks.

Different people with different genetics, experience levels, ages... blah blah blah. Ronnie Coleman almost seems like the kind of guy who could get hit by a truck and go to work the next day, with the way he really just busts ass with those big weights. I hurt just watching, and he says he feels he can go back to the gym after about an hours rest.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

Mudge

I'm sure its probably a Weider principle so whatever M&F says is probably what it formally is. Its been so long since I've read that stuff, that you could very well be right. If he has seperate names based on one being for repetition manipulation UP and another for light/heavy/light, I suppose that was another way for him to say he had xxx # of principles that he "invented."

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

KarlW

That's like me, though I am dropping the weight, I am only doing so to stay in the rep range. so is that a ramp down or what you'd call static sets? Obviously there is a direct relationship between #reps and weight, and, as you go through your sets, the amount of weight you can lift for the same reps decreases, OR the #reps for the same weight decreases. Be interesting to see studies on this kinda stuff.

What this means is that when we drop a ball and it falls to the ground, it wasn't the ball that moved (down to the ground), but the ground that moved (up to the ball)

Mudge

I have to drop the weight to stay in the rep range often, at my very best, with a long rest period on a given upper body movement I may only lose a single rep from set to set if I dont change the weight. For something like a bench press though, at the moment I generally lose more, and some people only take a minute or so and I take longer.

So I may go as heavy as 385 for a set, then 365, then 335, then 315 as an example. Something like legs I keep adding weight until I peak on the last set, so it really varies by bodypart...

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks