Abs Daily???

**P-funk** · 04-26-2005, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

So much hate here, you all need to go to the grocery store and buy some pills that says "Chill Pills" ...you need them

some of us a jsut pasionate about the things we study and are interested in.

Duncans Donuts · 04-26-2005, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

"And I'm saying that I'm completely sure that if you train your abs daily, you won't have powerful abs." I agree, but that's not what was originally said. He said that you should work your abs every day that you otherwise work out. That does not mean every single day.

QUOTE:
"I still think that if you aren't doing core strength exercises then you need to work them everyday"

Again, I quote:
"ABS......olutely work them every day! "

Quote:

"Wow, thanks for the update. Go reference what he said about core strength (if you don't do any core strength, train your abs 5 times a week) and tell me how what you said relates to that?" He said to do ab work for core strength; I said that ab work increases core strength; you felt the need to tell me that my statement was unrelated...

What you did was lecture me on core strength. What the hell did you lecture me on core strength for:

Quote:

Abs do indeed have a lot to do with core strength. They're involved in the two biggest powerlifting moves: squats and deadlifts. They're main stabilizers and get worked quite a bit when the exercises are done properly. Without strong abs, those two lifts won't be very big.

Again, let me thank you for the update, although your tangent had absolutely no relation to anything I said.

Quote:

Now I didn't mean to come off as a jerk, but many of the things you said seemed to contradict things I know you know, so I felt the need to pick at what you said because I was extremely bored (and still am). Basically everything I said was probably a misunderstanding of your post, or at least I hope so, and I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say as well.

I'd like you to point out these contradictions? I didn't misunderstand anything you said.

devildog88 · 04-27-2005, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

Let me spell this out for you.

You are a fucking retard. I hate this mystic bullshit about "Works for me". Tell me why it works for you? Tell me why it's optimal? Tell me why anyone should do what you say? Don't just say something that contradicts common sense. GIVE A REASON. Because you didnt' give any reason why the abs can be trained everday while everything else can't.

Then you threw in something about core strength. You think you'll get strong working your abs every day? Wow, this is amazing, another newbie parading around telling people bullshit and setting the case of exercise science back a decade. Got any reasoning behind your nonsensical statement? Besides "CUZ IT WORKS FOR ME!". I bet it doesn't, actually. I bet your midsection is as atrophied as a nutsack stacked on 2 grams of deca and half a gram of oxymeth.

Let me point out that all I did was criticize his position, initially, which I was polite about. I restrained myself. The firs thing that hit my mind, frankly, was that if you listen to this dumb fucker, you're even stupider than he is, which says a lot. This is how I know that nobody listened to him, because finding two people on this board as encompassed in sheer dimwitted buffoonery would completely shit on everything i know about statistical odds.

Ok Dipshit,

I tried to be nice but I see that your overactive thyroid is getting in your way. The reason it works for me is because I am a 39 year old man that struggles with body fat %. By doing my abs every day I can assure that they are strong and lean. Combined with cardio 4 times a week it keeps me at approx 16-18% body fat. I don't do Cleans, heavy squats, and push presses any more. The only compound exercise I do is squats (not very heavy 315 is as heavy as I go) and SDLD. So when I say that it works for me it does. Just to put things into reference for my groided gut friend, This is a program sent to me from the Air Force Acadamy. Who spends more money on research than Mr Donuts ever thought of having. By the way, they suggest if you are not doing core strength exercises, ( Dognut if you are not sure what they are PM me and I will spell them out for you) that you should train your core 4-6 times a week!

Now Knucklehead,
If your research is more complete and applied at a more common rate than the Air force Acadamy I will shut up on this subject, if not then you are just spouting a personal preference and a accepted praqctice in the body building arena. Keep in mind that most competitive body builders are taking some sort of gear so their core is going to respond and need rest to repair.

Think of it this way my simple minded smurf, people who train to run, be it a sprinter or a distant runner they run every day of their life!!!! Lance Armstrong is on his bike everyday of the week 8 hours a day. SO why not do sit ups at a higher rate. It is a muscle group that is used every day to assist in almost all that you do.

But I am not here to give advice Only tell you what I do. If it doesn't work for you..............don't do it. Plain and simple.

Duncans Donuts · 04-27-2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devildog88

Ok Dipshit,
This is a program sent to me from the Air Force Acadamy.

Wow-wee! Air Force! Our government is defitently the source you want to cnosult for physiology.

Quote:

Who spends more money on research than Mr Donuts ever thought of having. By the way, they suggest if you are not doing core strength exercises, ( Dognut if you are not sure what they are PM me and I will spell them out for you) that you should train your core 4-6 times a week!

I doubt that you are stronger than most of the people on here who intelilgently train 2-3 times a week. In fact, I'll bet on it. I'll bet that if we were to use some kind of static strength test for our abdominals, I'd crush you. 4-6 times a week??

Quote:

Now Knucklehead,
If your research is more complete and applied at a more common rate than the Air force Acadamy

Please provide these RESEARCH STUDIES from the Air Force that indicate what position you are referencing. My subsciption to several prominent exercise journals don't indicate some of what you've claimed.. I'd also like to point out the bias and abstract nature of most research, so to add that even in papers that support my position it is best to train an eye of skepticism on them.

Quote:

I will shut up on this subject, if not then you are just spouting a personal preference and a accepted praqctice in the body building arena. Keep in mind that most competitive body builders are taking some sort of gear so their core is going to respond and need rest to repair.

I backed my so called personal preference up with, at least, substantiated hypothesis. You just made up shit (stupid shit, actually).

Quote:

Think of it this way my simple minded smurf, people who train to run, be it a sprinter or a distant runner they run every day of their life!!!! Lance Armstrong is on his bike everyday of the week 8 hours a day. SO why not do sit ups at a higher rate. It is a muscle group that is used every day to assist in almost all that you do.

Oh wow..this statement is so littered with fallacies that I don't know where to start. Does doing work at a "higher rate" instigate muscle growth? Does it correlate to a greater overall core strength than doing more marginal reps? If so, does that imply one is inaffective? If such is the case, what studies are you referencing? Also, what does strength training ANAEROBICALLY a muscle group have to do with long distance running or bike riding? Such a comparison demonstrated a pronounced misunderstanding of the bodies energy systems and, in conjunction with the SAID principle, the fact that you don't realize that you can't train something SPECIFICALLY for aerobics and maximize force potential output (and vice versa). Your logic belongs in the toilet, stop wasting time.

Quote:

But I am not here to give advice Only tell you what I do. If it doesn't work for you..............don't do it. Plain and simple.

Ignorance is bliss.

LMAO..

devildog88 · 04-27-2005, 10:00 AM

Before I argue this point any further I think it is important that we get on the same page. I am not refering to muscle growth, I do not want to promote growth, I am more interested in defining and maintaining. I think we are debating on two sides of the issue. By the way Dunkin, what is it that you do for a living, and where were you educated on the anomolies of strength training?

Duncans Donuts · 04-27-2005, 10:01 AM

If that is the case, definition is a point of low body fat percentage. Muscles can not be "trained" to be in a toned state..

devildog88 · 04-27-2005, 10:05 AM

Still waiting........................................... ..................

**P-funk** · 04-27-2005, 11:07 AM

the only compound movenents you do are squats and SLDL? No bench press? overhead press? pull ups? rows??

devildog88 · 04-27-2005, 11:09 AM

Let me rephrase....... I used the word compound when in fact I meant floor based exercises. Yes I still Bench, Military, and Pull Up!

**P-funk** · 04-27-2005, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devildog88

Let me rephrase....... I used the word compound when in fact I meant floor based exercises. Yes I still Bench, Military, and Pull Up!

oh...lol, i was going to say..."what a weird workout...squat, bb curl, lateral raise."

devildog88 · 04-27-2005, 11:27 AM

No, I have gotten away from Hang cleans, Full Cleans, Push Presses etc.... I only do deads once a week. Maybe I am just lazy or just getting old! :-)

Duncans Donuts · 04-27-2005, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devildog88

Still waiting........................................... ..................

What are you waiting for

devildog88 · 04-27-2005, 12:44 PM

Just wondering where you acquired all of your knowledge on this particular subject....................other than "journals" that you subscribe to. Have you had any formal training?

Duncans Donuts · 04-27-2005, 12:49 PM

Why should I have to explain anything to you? If someone uses the gravitational consant in an evaluation with mathematics, do the values change if he the person performing has no degree or any "formal training" ?

In any case, I am currently in school as a physiology major, although my "training" is of no concern to you. If you can't argue the merits of your belief, and instead try to dissuade attention from the argument itself by pointing out something that is utterly irrelevant, well, have at it.

devildog88 · 04-27-2005, 12:54 PM

I thought so.

Nevertheless, I respect your opinion on the issue and can appriciate that you have drawn your conclusions on what works best for you.

Duncans Donuts · 04-27-2005, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devildog88

I thought so.

Nevertheless, I respect your opinion on the issue and can appriciate that you have drawn your conclusions on what works best for you.

I haven't draw my conclusions on what works best for me. I see that you are not even aware of what physiology is, in regards to my explanation of formal training and your "thought so". Comical to see a man (20 years older than me) so weak in an argument to bring up "formal training" after speaking on something so fundamentally wrong as "toning" a muscle with high reps.

As far as respecting my opinion, as you have completely misinterpreted the source of my "conclusions", that is of little regard to me.

soxmuscle · 04-27-2005, 01:06 PM

I am going to hit my abs every second of everyday. Not only am I going to wear the shocking belts, but I am going to keep my abs flexed all day, everyday. ABS 4 Life!

devildog88 · 04-27-2005, 01:10 PM

I can see we are going nowhere fast here so we can agree to disagree, or not I really don't care. But thanks for sharing your thoughts. Now, aren't you late for class? "More Learning to be had" Jethro.

By the way. The toning I am refering to is the maintanence level and work load that a given muscle needs to perform at a constant rate at an optimal level. How many cross country runners do you see increasing the size of the muscle through the constant work load and mileage base of their daily workouts? Granted they have a different goal than you but the argument is that you can and many people do "tone" a muscle through high reps. Perhaps you haven't had that class yet?

devildog88 · 04-27-2005, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

I am going to hit my abs every second of everyday. Not only am I going to wear the shocking belts, but I am going to keep my abs flexed all day, everyday. ABS 4 Life!

At last someone can make light of this conversation in good way!

Hats off to ya Brother!

Duncans Donuts · 04-27-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devildog88

I can see we are going nowhere fast here so we can agree to disagree, or not I really don't care. But thanks for sharing your thoughts. Now, aren't you late for class? "More Learning to be had" Jethro.

By the way. The toning I am refering to is the maintanence level and work load that a given muscle needs to perform at a constant rate at an optimal level. How many cross country runners do you see increasing the size of the muscle through the constant work load and mileage base of their daily workouts? Granted they have a different goal than you but the argument is that you can and many people do "tone" a muscle through high reps. Perhaps you haven't had that class yet?

You are seriously not in good shape for a 40 year old man. You keep vainly trying to cut me down intellectually, but you have yet to present a cognitive argument in any form. You have not responded to my statements except to (again vainly) deride me.

In any case, let me very carefully explain to you how you are completely confused, wrong, sorely mistaken, and so forth.

The so called "toning" you are referring to is disuse atrophy of the Fast-Glycotic muscle fibers as a function of use via the SAID principle (that is, fast-twitch over-use atrophy accounting for an overall smaller cross-sectional area) and high development of the smaller slow-twitch fibers.

A quick word on the SAID relationship: if you aren't going to use your muscles for high intense contractions, the need for maximal force generation is not there, and you won't keep huge muscle. Low-intense exercise done ad nauseaum is not demanding to the musculature in the same way that intense contractions are, so the body will adapt specifically.

This is not toning. This is literally atrophy of the largest fibers and development of the smaller ones. If the largest fibers are atrophied, you will not have big muscles. Maximal (optimal) development in both is impossible at the same time.

Let me point out that muscles will stay the same, progress, or regress. Be noted that progression can not just be related to hypertrophy: energy levels (glycogen, creatine) also contribute. Any level of detail is because of a lower body fat percentage, water retention, etcetera.

Let me point out that nobody on this entire board with a decent understanding of muscle physiology would dare suggest that you can tone a muscle with high reps. These things stated are all aligned with pretty basic tenents (principles) including stress physiology, the General Adaptation Syndrome, and basic anatomy. If you'd like to argue them rationally, I'd be so tickled to see what you've got.

Quote:

Perhaps you haven't had that class yet?

Have you ever gone to school? Because at my school they don't have classes on make-believe nonsensical exercise mythology.

soxmuscle · 04-27-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devildog88

At last someone can make light of this conversation in good way!

Hats off to ya Brother!

I said what I said in a completely joking manner. Anyone who works there abs daily is a laughing stock to the bodybuilding world and to Ironmag. I am now dumber for having read your posts, thank god DD is there to counteract that stupidity or else I'd be done for.

Duncans Donuts · 04-27-2005, 01:42 PM

Still waiting........................................... ..................

devildog88 · 04-27-2005, 01:50 PM

I have never disagreed with your viewpoints DD ( I don't think) I am mearly saying there are other ways to do things. But as it seems we are not trying to achieve the same end. So, having said that I am asking you.......what should I do?

View Poll Results: How often do you work your abs?
5 Times per week	8	6.40%
4 Times per week	15	12.00%
3 Times per week	37	29.60%
2 Times per week	34	27.20%
1 Time per week	20	16.00%
None	11	8.80%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

04-27-2005, 10:00 AM	#35
devildog88 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 795 Photos: 1	Before I argue this point any further I think it is important that we get on the same page. I am not refering to muscle growth, I do not want to promote growth, I am more interested in defining and maintaining. I think we are debating on two sides of the issue. By the way Dunkin, what is it that you do for a living, and where were you educated on the anomolies of strength training?
	"Everyone wants to win but not everyone is willing to prepare to win" Bobby Knight

04-27-2005, 10:01 AM	#36
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	If that is the case, definition is a point of low body fat percentage. Muscles can not be "trained" to be in a toned state..
	"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

04-27-2005, 10:05 AM	#37
devildog88 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 795 Photos: 1	Still waiting........................................... ..................
	"Everyone wants to win but not everyone is willing to prepare to win" Bobby Knight

04-27-2005, 11:07 AM	#38
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,625	the only compound movenents you do are squats and SLDL? No bench press? overhead press? pull ups? rows??
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

04-27-2005, 11:09 AM	#39
devildog88 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 795 Photos: 1	Let me rephrase....... I used the word compound when in fact I meant floor based exercises. Yes I still Bench, Military, and Pull Up!
	"Everyone wants to win but not everyone is willing to prepare to win" Bobby Knight

04-27-2005, 11:27 AM	#41
devildog88 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 795 Photos: 1	No, I have gotten away from Hang cleans, Full Cleans, Push Presses etc.... I only do deads once a week. Maybe I am just lazy or just getting old! :-)
	"Everyone wants to win but not everyone is willing to prepare to win" Bobby Knight

04-27-2005, 12:44 PM	#43
devildog88 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 795 Photos: 1	Just wondering where you acquired all of your knowledge on this particular subject....................other than "journals" that you subscribe to. Have you had any formal training?
	"Everyone wants to win but not everyone is willing to prepare to win" Bobby Knight

04-27-2005, 12:49 PM	#44
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	Why should I have to explain anything to you? If someone uses the gravitational consant in an evaluation with mathematics, do the values change if he the person performing has no degree or any "formal training" ? In any case, I am currently in school as a physiology major, although my "training" is of no concern to you. If you can't argue the merits of your belief, and instead try to dissuade attention from the argument itself by pointing out something that is utterly irrelevant, well, have at it.
	"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

04-27-2005, 12:54 PM	#45
devildog88 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 795 Photos: 1	I thought so. Nevertheless, I respect your opinion on the issue and can appriciate that you have drawn your conclusions on what works best for you.
	"Everyone wants to win but not everyone is willing to prepare to win" Bobby Knight

04-27-2005, 01:06 PM	#47
soxmuscle do work son Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: I will eat your face Posts: 8,541 Photos: 10	I am going to hit my abs every second of everyday. Not only am I going to wear the shocking belts, but I am going to keep my abs flexed all day, everyday. ABS 4 Life!
	Age: 20 \| Height: 5'7" \| Weight: 150 lbs \| Penis: 12 inches

04-27-2005, 01:10 PM	#48
devildog88 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 795 Photos: 1	I can see we are going nowhere fast here so we can agree to disagree, or not I really don't care. But thanks for sharing your thoughts. Now, aren't you late for class? "More Learning to be had" Jethro. By the way. The toning I am refering to is the maintanence level and work load that a given muscle needs to perform at a constant rate at an optimal level. How many cross country runners do you see increasing the size of the muscle through the constant work load and mileage base of their daily workouts? Granted they have a different goal than you but the argument is that you can and many people do "tone" a muscle through high reps. Perhaps you haven't had that class yet?
	"Everyone wants to win but not everyone is willing to prepare to win" Bobby Knight

04-27-2005, 01:42 PM	#52
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	Still waiting........................................... ..................
	"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

04-27-2005, 01:50 PM	#53
devildog88 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 795 Photos: 1	I have never disagreed with your viewpoints DD ( I don't think) I am mearly saying there are other ways to do things. But as it seems we are not trying to achieve the same end. So, having said that I am asking you.......what should I do?
	"Everyone wants to win but not everyone is willing to prepa