Abs Daily???

**P-funk** · 04-29-2005, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Responses embedded.

P-Funk,

My theory is Strength before speed if you are periodizing one before the other. If you are doing both in a single session, speed first, always.

oh okay.

I actually asked Lyle McDonald about this once after seeing a program he wrote for a powerlifter he was training in which day 1 of legs the would squat heavy first and then do speed deadlifts and day 2 (later that week) they would deadlift heavy and then box squat (for speed). He told me that either way is okay. He said some strength coaches do it my way but others feel that if you do the heavy stuff first it will make the speed stuff feel that much lighter. I don't know though, I have never tried it in that order.

**Dale Mabry** · 04-29-2005, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

oh okay.

I actually asked Lyle McDonald about this once after seeing a program he wrote for a powerlifter he was training in which day 1 of legs the would squat heavy first and then do speed deadlifts and day 2 (later that week) they would deadlift heavy and then box squat (for speed). He told me that either way is okay. He said some strength coaches do it my way but others feel that if you do the heavy stuff first it will make the speed stuff feel that much lighter. I don't know though, I have never tried it in that order.

Yeah, my reasoning is that if you do speed stuff second, form will suffer and the chance of injury would be greater. To each his own.

**Dale Mabry** · 04-29-2005, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

So let me rephrase. Just because you work at something hard, doesn't mean you'll do it. If you practice playing football, a complex skill, you probably don't have the factors of genetic ability to do it professionally, regardless. You probably won't have the balance, reflex action, muscle potential, and neuro effiicency range to accomplish such a feat.

I'll summarize my point once more. Skill Training should always be specific. Why not practice balance in a specific situation (such as running, twisting, etc. around opponents) instead of while standing on one leg?

If you think you can train balance for football by standing on one leg, have it it, because it won't do anything. That's my evaluation.

As far as my example, it meant that, even if you SPECIFICALLY PRACTICED walking on a tight-rope on a one foot platform blindfolded, you won't ever be able to do it; especially with bad balance. This is because the level needed to walk on a tight-rope is absurdly high, and no amount of standing on one leg, or walking on a sidewalk corner, or catching a swissball (or whatever) will change that. Therefore:

"You are setting an unattainable goal."

Yes, I know I was. I was setting it as an illustration.

I won't respond to the other things, we just go around in circles and neither one of us has any empirical evidence that the other is wrong. I am going based on anecdotal evidence from myself. You DO run with two legs, but you are ON 2 legs never, therefore applying appropriate groundforces with one leg is something that needs to be learned. I agree, some people just will never walk a tightrope blindfolded. Again, that is something maybe 1% of the population will ever do and that level of balance is not needed in prolfessional sports, just like there are linemen who will never bench 900lbs.

As for practicing open skills, I agree with you. Open skills are important and should be the focus of a training program, ONCE THE ATHLETE HAS MASTERED THE CLOSED SKILLS. Training these closed skills teaches the athlete to propererly apply ground forces and use positive angles to make a cut or stop dead in his tracks. Certainly once the skill is attained less time will be used doing these closed skills movements, but they will still be there in the dynamic warm up and during the offseason and transition phases of the periodization calendar.

Here is a source from the late Mel Siff that supposedly states that practicing balance on 1/2 legs does lead to improvements in general balancing ability. Keep in mind I have not even looked at this source as I only have Medline on my work computer and am heading out the door to go play tennis, so I have no idea what the source contains. If someone has it post it.

BTW, this is not an argument, it is an exchange of ideas. In fact, DD PM'ed me and told me how smart and sexy he thought I was, seriously. Well maybe not, but still, I am smart and sexy.

PS. P-funk and DD, do you 2 ever go to sleep, damn.

devildog88 · 04-29-2005, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

clean before you squat. speed before strength (which can be argues either way I know but I find it to be better that way....so, I guess what I am saying is take my opinion for it or not. LOL. I think Dale does it the opposite of me).

make sure you really know what you are talking about with cleans, especially with the younger kids.

I would put more rest in ther mon-thurs is brutal. Especially since all three days are hip involved exercises (push press, cleans and squats) and without seeing what intenstiy you are working at it would be tough to tell how effective this workout can be. Also, they probably do a lot of running and agility work in practice as well. So, inseason, this program would be brutal.

P-funk,
My problem is that all of my athletes are two and three sport people. Now don't get me wrong I like them involved because it keeps their competitive juices flowing. But in the spring I try to rest them on Friday because they usually have a track meet on SAt. So Mon-THurs is really the only way to get them in there 4 days a week. It is pretty intense in and out in 45 minutes. By the way they are great kids. Second in the state in Football, State Champions in Basketball, and going to be state champions in Track. ( they have won every meet this year by 60 point sor more)

**Dale Mabry** · 04-29-2005, 10:45 AM

What sport do you coach?

devildog88 · 04-29-2005, 10:54 AM

I am the head football coach and assistant basketball coach. I don't coach in the spring so I can run the spring weight training for my Football players.

**P-funk** · 04-29-2005, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Yeah, my reasoning is that if you do speed stuff second, form will suffer and the chance of injury would be greater. To each his own

yea, that is what I say too.

Quote:

PS. P-funk and DD, do you 2 ever go to sleep, damn.

I occasionally nap between the hours of 12-2am.

**Dale Mabry** · 04-29-2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

yea, that is what I say too.

I occasionally nap between the hours of 12-2am.

That's pretty sweet, we are off by about 12 hours. I often take a nap at work between the hours of 12-2pm. I just grab a pillow, climb up onto one of the Physical Therapist tables, and nod off. I sometimes get adventurous and hop on the motion table we are testing and sleep, that is pretty fun.

soxmuscle · 04-29-2005, 06:29 PM

you guys really only get like 3 hours of sleep per day?

**Dale Mabry** · 04-29-2005, 06:40 PM

no, i get 3 xtra during the day on days after I go out at night.

**P-funk** · 04-29-2005, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

you guys really only get like 3 hours of sleep per day?

I was joking. I would love to get 8hrs straigh per night. As it turns out I usually get only 5-6 and if I am lucky I get a 45-60min nap in the middle of the day as well.

KarlW · 05-01-2005, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I was joking. I would love to get 8hrs straigh per night. As it turns out I usually get only 5-6 and if I am lucky I get a 45-60min nap in the middle of the day as well.

Sound about the same

soxmuscle · 05-02-2005, 12:10 AM

Same with me. I wish I could get more, but I sit here on the computer doing nothing instead.

Lankster · 05-09-2005, 09:25 PM

fuck abs i do them maybe once every 2 weeks

aversion209 · 05-12-2005, 09:29 PM

Alright, I finally got done reading all that . . . .

I know you have to watch your diet in order for the lower portion of your abs to stay revealed . . . but the thing is I haven't been watching my diet and now I have a little love flab. I recently got back into lifting and am now watching what I eat.

QUESTION: will running help deplet the love flab? What are some excercises that I can do to lose the love flab, not neccesarily tone it (the top portion of my abs are noticeable but the lower has the excess fat). Right now I do reverse crunch, regular crunch and weighted side bends.

**CowPimp** · 05-14-2006, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aversion209

Alright, I finally got done reading all that . . . .

I know you have to watch your diet in order for the lower portion of your abs to stay revealed . . . but the thing is I haven't been watching my diet and now I have a little love flab. I recently got back into lifting and am now watching what I eat.

QUESTION: will running help deplet the love flab? What are some excercises that I can do to lose the love flab, not neccesarily tone it (the top portion of my abs are noticeable but the lower has the excess fat). Right now I do reverse crunch, regular crunch and weighted side bends.

You cannot spot reduce. All the reverse crunches in the world will not make your "lower abs" (They don't exist; it's one muscle that is not separately innervated) become visible without dropping the fat there.

Running will help you in that you will burn more calories and potentially start using your fat stores for energy if your diet is also in check, but it isn't necessary. Diet is still of utmost importance. To achieve a full fledged six pack that is totally visible unflexed requires ridiculous attention to diet though, or kickass genetics.

fufu · 05-15-2006, 09:27 AM

I train 4 days a week and my abs are always being used so I said I train them 4 days a week.

TJ Cline · 05-15-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

Let me spell this out for you.

You are a fucking retard. I hate this mystic bullshit about "Works for me". Tell me why it works for you? Tell me why it's optimal? Tell me why anyone should do what you say? Don't just say something that contradicts common sense. GIVE A REASON. Because you didnt' give any reason why the abs can be trained everday while everything else can't.

Then you threw in something about core strength. You think you'll get strong working your abs every day? Wow, this is amazing, another newbie parading around telling people bullshit and setting the case of exercise science back a decade. Got any reasoning behind your nonsensical statement? Besides "CUZ IT WORKS FOR ME!". I bet it doesn't, actually. I bet your midsection is as atrophied as a nutsack stacked on 2 grams of deca and half a gram of oxymeth.

Let me point out that all I did was criticize his position, initially, which I was polite about. I restrained myself. The firs thing that hit my mind, frankly, was that if you listen to this dumb fucker, you're even stupider than he is, which says a lot. This is how I know that nobody listened to him, because finding two people on this board as encompassed in sheer dimwitted buffoonery would completely shit on everything i know about statistical odds.

Now this is a class post

**Gazhole** · 05-15-2006, 03:32 PM

This is another good topic!

For me: i do weighted ab work once a week, since like a lot of people two of my staple movements are squat and deadlift.

katt · 05-15-2006, 04:51 PM

I do them twice a week,

KelJu · 05-15-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Now this is a class post

I enjoyed that post also!
I happen to believe that Duncan is 100% correct, but I dare not claim to have factual data to back it up. Neither Duncan nor Devil has posted any pictures of their midsection from the front, so the jury is still out.
Everything this site has taught me makes me believe devil has no clue what he is talking about, and Duncan's logic is correct.
That is also combined with the numerous times where I have seen devildog commit to logic fallacies in Open Chat.
Who cares really, because I don’t work abs. I do compound core exercises with a lean diet.

TJ Cline · 05-15-2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelJu

I enjoyed that post also!
I happen to believe that Duncan is 100% correct, but I dare not claim to have factual data to back it up. Neither Duncan nor Devil has posted any pictures of their midsection from the front, so the jury is still out.
Everything this site has taught me makes me believe devil has no clue what he is talking about, and Duncan's logic is correct.
That is also combined with the numerous times where I have seen devildog commit to logic fallacies in Open Chat.
Who cares really, because I don’t work abs. I do compound core exercises with a lean diet.

I was being sarcastic...Duncan is a arrogant prick who thinks he knows it all....and he dosent.

KelJu · 05-15-2006, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

I was being sarcastic...Duncan is a arrogant prick who thinks he knows it all....and he dosent.

I still agree with Duncan. I can't prove what he is saying, but by applying what I have leaned on IM, I would work my abs like I work my calves. I work my calves 1.5 to 2 times a week, or every other 3 or 2 days.
I haven't actually read where the knowledgeable sources posted their opinion on the matter yet.

TJ Cline · 05-15-2006, 07:03 PM

I would train abbs with high reps and low volume EOD or 2x a week.

**CowPimp** · 05-16-2006, 01:41 AM

I directly train my abs twice each week. I do one exercise each squat/deadlift day for a few sets. To train them every day is ridiculous.

View Poll Results: How often do you work your abs?
5 Times per week	8	6.40%
4 Times per week	15	12.00%
3 Times per week	37	29.60%
2 Times per week	34	27.20%
1 Time per week	20	16.00%
None	11	8.80%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

04-29-2005, 10:45 AM	#95
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,882 Photos: 10	What sport do you coach?
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

04-29-2005, 10:54 AM	#96
devildog88 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 795 Photos: 1	I am the head football coach and assistant basketball coach. I don't coach in the spring so I can run the spring weight training for my Football players.
	"Everyone wants to win but not everyone is willing to prepare to win" Bobby Knight

04-29-2005, 06:29 PM	#99
soxmuscle do work son Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: I will eat your face Posts: 8,541 Photos: 10	you guys really only get like 3 hours of sleep per day?
	Age: 20 \| Height: 5'7" \| Weight: 150 lbs \| Penis: 12 inches

04-29-2005, 06:40 PM	#100
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,882 Photos: 10	no, i get 3 xtra during the day on days after I go out at night.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

05-02-2005, 12:10 AM	#103
soxmuscle do work son Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: I will eat your face Posts: 8,541 Photos: 10	Same with me. I wish I could get more, but I sit here on the computer doing nothing instead.
	Age: 20 \| Height: 5'7" \| Weight: 150 lbs \| Penis: 12 inches

05-09-2005, 09:25 PM	#104
Lankster Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 191 Photos: 1	fuck abs i do them maybe once every 2 weeks

05-12-2005, 09:29 PM	#105
aversion209 Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 13 Photos: 3	Alright, I finally got done reading all that . . . . I know you have to watch your diet in order for the lower portion of your abs to stay revealed . . . but the thing is I haven't been watching my diet and now I have a little love flab. I recently got back into lifting and am now watching what I eat. QUESTION: will running help deplet the love flab? What are some excercises that I can do to lose the love flab, not neccesarily tone it (the top portion of my abs are noticeable but the lower has the excess fat). Right now I do reverse crunch, regular crunch and weighted side bends.

05-15-2006, 09:27 AM	#107
fufu fiendish thingy Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 16,469 Photos: 7	I train 4 days a week and my abs are always being used so I said I train them 4 days a week.
	fufu's 1337 Journal Your diet will set you free.

05-15-2006, 04:51 PM	#110
katt Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 4,124 Photos: 37	I do them twice a week,

05-15-2006, 07:03 PM	#114
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544	I would train abbs with high reps and low volume EOD or 2x a week.
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544

05-16-2006, 01:41 AM	#115
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	I directly train my abs twice each week. I do one exercise each squat/deadlift day for a few sets. To train them every day is ridiculous.
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