IronMagazine Bodybuilding Forum


Go Back   IronMagazine Bodybuilding Forum > BodyBuilding & Fitness Forums > Training
Photo Gallery Register Members List Videos Blogs Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Training Learn proper form, techniques, & routines. Post questions about weight training as it relates to muscle building.

Sponsored by: BigBackGrips.com


Arthur Jones speaks on sports specificity.


Reply
 
LinkBack (1) Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-01-2005, 03:08 PM   1 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #31
Celebrity PersonalTrainer
 
musclepump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,665
Photos: 128

Transmutation is just a cool word



Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.
musclepump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 04:30 AM   #32
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,544

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts
The explanation is related to neurological specificity, reasoning that has been debated between us before, so there's no real need to rehash the details.

Generally speaking, for example, I know people who can bench press 500 pounds on a bench press but can't do as much as I can on a flye or with dumbells (despite performing them as much as me). A great deal of this has to do with the idea of attunement; that is, once an exercise has been affectively learned by the body to a point that the system uses less muscle to perform the same amount of work (aka homeostasis - this would be related to firing patterns and rate-coding, leverage, and blah blah) the actual exercise being performed (such as a bench press) does not induce any further sarcomere or sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (that is an increase in general strength via increased cross section) - again, biologically speaking i believe that once at a certain point excess muscle is not a benefit to the body, so inducing hypertrophy over neurological conditioning (which is what makes much more sense for the body to do) requires a very dramatic, unusual, alarming stimulus for the body to encounter.

In any case, once the exercise becomes common-practice and thus less demanding to the body, improvement fades away from general and becomes more finely tuned (a skill) via neurological programming and consious and subconsious changes.

The explanation is fundamentally much more complex than this, and I happen to believe in it as I've seen guys in the weight room bench press ridiculous amounts of weight who simply can't hold their own on the football field. It's a theory that I've been actively involved in, though, and I've seen some fantastic affects with involving the understanding of these concepts into my workouts (and other peoples workouts).

Also, it explains why some powerlifters can move such huge amounts of weight while remaining in a lower weight-class, and be relatively weak (relatively regarding their strength in lifts like the squat, etc.) in exercises that they don't perform. I really don't subscribe to the idea that food is a magic bullet; rather, I don't think the notion of train the same all the time and eat with it "magically" imposes some change on a system as complicated as human physiology is, even if the weight goes up. Somehow this has been thrown around as fact, although I've never had much use with it since I came into a phase of more advanced training.

A lot of these ideas were first introduced to me by Brian Johnson, another person I admire greatly.

For more information specifically regarding much of the motor-learning beliefs I am espoused to, visit this:

http://www.exercisecertification.com...-Analysis.html
Wow can you say hack??? Lets break this down one by one.
1.( despite preforming them as much as me). As much as me do, or as much as I do...and you said English was easy for you.
2. Attunement: to bring into Harmony: Tune. You use this out of context just to impress the children
3.Homeostasis: A state of body equilibrium or stable internal environment of the body. This term has nothing to do with the topic at hand...please don't use big words to impress the teenagers.
4.Sarcomere: The smallest contractile unit of muscle; extends from one Z disc to the next. Again you throw in a word that is out of context, just to try and make you look like you know something..OMG how sad
5. This one is too easy...hahaha...The idea that a big bench press equates to a football player...wow..I can see you have used no scientific facts for this, and only a nonscientific, non athlete would come up with this joke of an example.
6. I can't keep correcting the English errors ( and you said you were doing so well in English).
7. D.D. Please get you're own opinion and stop loving the pseudo scientists who shame us all.
TJ Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2005, 02:57 AM   #33
Stay puffed, baby.
 
Duncans Donuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 2,774
Photos: 2

View Member's Myspace Profile
Wow, this is amazing.

Quote:
( despite preforming them as much as me). As much as me do, or as much as I do...and you said English was easy for you.
Thanks professor. Since we're on the internet, now, should I go look for some petty irrelevant semantic mistake you made? Your arguments are completely sad.

As for the discussion of homeostasis, if you looked closely, you would see that it was entirely appropriate:

"A great deal of this has to do with the idea of attunement; that is, once an exercise has been affectively learned by the body to a point that the system uses less muscle to perform the same amount of work (aka homeostasis - this would be related to firing patterns and rate-coding, leverage, and blah blah)"

Then, given your definition:

"3.Homeostasis: A state of body equilibrium or stable internal environment of the body. This term has nothing to do with the topic at hand...please don't use big words to impress the teenagers."

A better definition might be this:
"The ability or tendency of an organism or cell to maintain internal equilibrium by adjusting its physiological processes."

Homeostasis of the neurological system is in fact making something demanding more tolerable through physiological processes. If you can't relate this to that statement above, I just don't know what to say...

Quote:
2. Attunement: to bring into Harmony: Tune. You use this out of context just to impress the children
I must say, you're going to the dictionary and picking out the definitions that least fit what I was saying...lol. That's pretty biased, don't you think? Here's another definition:

"Agreement in feeling or opinion; accord: live in harmony."

Obviously people don't just use the term harmony for music. Anyway,

Attunement is appropriate in this context as if the body DOES NOT INDUCE HYPERTROPHY OF THE MYOFIBRIL or HYPERTROPHY OF THE SARCOPLASM but instead gets stronger by BRINGING ALL FUNCTIONS (energy expenditure, rate coding, neuro efficiency, leverage, joint positioning) into HARMONY - obviously the term attunement is appropriate. Your argument is semantic, you're trying to deny the points while attacking the words themselves. This is not a good technique.

Quote:
This one is too easy...hahaha...The idea that a big bench press equates to a football player...wow..I can see you have used no scientific facts for this, and only a nonscientific, non athlete would come up with this joke of an example.
This was an anecdote used for illustration. If you don't understand that this isn't a scientific paper, then you're confused. Instead of paying attention to the context, you picked something that was obviously a universal point I was trying to establish and twisted it.

Quote:
I can't keep correcting the English errors ( and you said you were doing so well in English).
If you want to talk about my English errors (which, in fact, there were none of, you simply don't like the word useage I had) you should go into the section of your English book that refers to LOGICAL FALLACIES.



"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."
Duncans Donuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2005, 06:03 AM   #34
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,544

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts
Wow, this is amazing.



Thanks professor. Since we're on the internet, now, should I go look for some petty irrelevant semantic mistake you made? Your arguments are completely sad.

As for the discussion of homeostasis, if you looked closely, you would see that it was entirely appropriate:

"A great deal of this has to do with the idea of attunement; that is, once an exercise has been affectively learned by the body to a point that the system uses less muscle to perform the same amount of work (aka homeostasis - this would be related to firing patterns and rate-coding, leverage, and blah blah)"

Then, given your definition:

"3.Homeostasis: A state of body equilibrium or stable internal environment of the body. This term has nothing to do with the topic at hand...please don't use big words to impress the teenagers."

A better definition might be this:
"The ability or tendency of an organism or cell to maintain internal equilibrium by adjusting its physiological processes."

Homeostasis of the neurological system is in fact making something demanding more tolerable through physiological processes. If you can't relate this to that statement above, I just don't know what to say...



I must say, you're going to the dictionary and picking out the definitions that least fit what I was saying...lol. That's pretty biased, don't you think? Here's another definition:

"Agreement in feeling or opinion; accord: live in harmony."

Obviously people don't just use the term harmony for music. Anyway,

Attunement is appropriate in this context as if the body DOES NOT INDUCE HYPERTROPHY OF THE MYOFIBRIL or HYPERTROPHY OF THE SARCOPLASM but instead gets stronger by BRINGING ALL FUNCTIONS (energy expenditure, rate coding, neuro efficiency, leverage, joint positioning) into HARMONY - obviously the term attunement is appropriate. Your argument is semantic, you're trying to deny the points while attacking the words themselves. This is not a good technique.



This was an anecdote used for illustration. If you don't understand that this isn't a scientific paper, then you're confused. Instead of paying attention to the context, you picked something that was obviously a universal point I was trying to establish and twisted it.



If you want to talk about my English errors (which, in fact, there were none of, you simply don't like the word useage I had) you should go into the section of your English book that refers to LOGICAL FALLACIES.
I have reread you're response to Dale and find it interesting and a reflection of someone who is very interested in exercise Physiology.
As for Homestasis my definition was correct but I will give you another one.
Walter Cannon was the Physiologist who coined the word Homeostasis to describe the body's ability to maintain relatively stable internal conditions even though the outside world changes continuously. This term relates to the body maintaining internal temperature , adequate blood levels of vital nutrients and on and on ect., and also relates to positive and negative mechanisms to control the body's balance. It is a wonderful term but it has nothing to do with bodybuilding training except for the body's health in general.
Donut my problem is not that you enjoy research related to fitness, or that you express that knowledge in you're writing. The problem is that you felt the need to attack me for no other reason then jumping on the band wagon of you're two friends who started the attack on my advice. In past posts of yours ( looking back) I have read over and over again a very negative and judgmental comments that you have made. We all are guilty of crossing the line from time to time but you really need to look back and reflect.
The positive thing is that I have learned is I don't need to get involved with negative or arrogant people. I wish you the best in you're studies.
TJ Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/47077-arthur-jones-speaks-sports-specificity.html
Posted By For Type Date
Arthur Jones speaks on sports specificity. - IronMagazine.com Bodybuilding Forums This thread Refback 03-10-2007 06:43 PM

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Sergio Oliva interview Mudge Training 24 06-21-2005 10:58 AM
You ever walked into a gay club? min0 lee Open Chat 94 03-23-2005 10:06 AM
Supplements elittuma Supplements 20 01-09-2005 10:25 AM
King Arthur and the witch ALBOB Open Chat 8 10-01-2004 08:56 AM
Water VS Sports Drinks w8lifter Diet & Nutrition 4 06-01-2002 12:39 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.10 - Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0
All logos, trademarks and content on this site are property of 2001-2008 by IronMagazine.com LLC - All Rights Reserved


Compare | Cell Phones | Credit | Pacotes Porto Seguro | MPAA

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38