The Upper Chest and Triceps!

gr81 · 05-20-2005, 02:10 AM

yo Pre my man, this cat is nto even worth the time, running his mouth. he shows his level of intelligence with posts like this:

Quote:

If you look at an anatomy book you will see that the pectorals has 3 distinct splits in it. It is one muscle but like the deltoid it can be developed by different angles.

Well the pec has a split in it so it must be able to be isolated? thats just ridiculous. Just b/c a muscle can be hit at a different angle does not imply isolation. The incline differs in the fact that it recruits more of the shoulders than anything. The bench is not even the most optimal movement for pec development if you really want to get down to it, its more of a tri movement. The delts are one muscle that has three heads, you can't isolate the anterior delt without recruiting the other heads, its not possible. You can do movements that more strongly recruit muscle fibers, but not isolation, pure and simple mr. anatomy. There is more to this science than simply anatomical observation, sounds like you need to learn that. read up son

btw you are getting off to a bad start on this forum, so why don't you do yourself a favor and beat it before you piss more people off. We don't need a piece of trailer park trash like you running his mouth.

WilliamB · 05-20-2005, 02:12 AM

Well if I had to put my money on who is more creditable I would definetly go with Premier over you Foreman. Foreman sounds like one of those people who have trouble putting sentances together but finds a way to throw in some technical terminology to make them selves sound well informed.

gr81 · 05-20-2005, 02:15 AM

well it didn't take him long to figure your ass out did it. Just b/c you say pec major and pec minor, like you are saying something we don't know, you think you are some sort of genius, like you impress somebody. Why not have some factualy based information to back up your claims instead of talking about shampoo?

TJ Cline · 05-20-2005, 02:16 AM

Sorry fellas I just can't take high school kids seriously. When any of you kids can bench over 400 let me know.

TJ Cline · 05-20-2005, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr81

well it didn't take him long to figure your ass out did it. Just b/c you say pec major and pec minor, like you are saying something we don't know, you think you are some sort of genius, like you impress somebody. Why not have some factualy based information to back up your claims instead of talking about shampoo?

Ok dummy explain the difference of the pectoralis minor and the pectoralis major. I'll give you an hour or two to look it up.

TJ Cline · 05-20-2005, 02:41 AM

The clock is ticking......Look it up

TJ Cline · 05-20-2005, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis584

I see. Nice info. Still kind of confused about not being able to target my upper chest, mostly dissapointed! But I guess I'll work hard at it and someday perhaps it'll even out more...

Well Francis if in doubt go to the gym you're next workout and do 5 sets of incline press and 2 sets of incline fly...and see in a day or two where you are sore...
Then you will know if gr81, PreMier and WilliamB know anything
I can tell you now they don't, but go and do what I said and you will be sore as hell in the upper chest and front delts (even though there is no such thing as front delts

)
It's over 1 hour and the high school kids have no answer

Duncans Donuts · 05-20-2005, 03:21 AM

I've taken both anatomy and physiology class. I'm a physiology major. Foreman, your attitude sucks and you are completely ignorant.

If you can isolate a portion of the pecs (minor or major) independently flex one without flexing the other. Have fun with that one, people will say you can, but I'm telling you it's impossible. This is why changing the angle on a calf raise doesn't "isolate". Isolate means to "seperate from all others" - if isolation where possible, then you could flex one head while not the other. This is garbage, and so is your attitude. Premiere is intelligent and knows what he's talking about, don't go head to head with people on this board..

TJ Cline · 05-20-2005, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

I've taken both anatomy and physiology class. I'm a physiology major. Foreman, your attitude sucks and you are completely ignorant.

If you can isolate a portion of the pecs (minor or major) independently flex one without flexing the other. Have fun with that one, people will say you can, but I'm telling you it's impossible. This is why changing the angle on a calf raise doesn't "isolate". Isolate means to "seperate from all others" - if isolation where possible, then you could flex one head while not the other. This is garbage, and so is your attitude. Premiere is intelligent and knows what he's talking about, don't go head to head with people on this board..

Well I have read you're posts, and have said nothing but since you feel the need to pull my string I will respond. I have very serious doubts you have studied Human Anatomy or Human Physiology in college with a passing grade. You have very limited knowledge of weight training; very typical of a small town kid. As for PerMiere he is just another loser with no experience, screaming to the world as you do that he knows it all. Come to LA and train with the Pro's for 4 years like I have, and compete in Pro qualifier's like I have Then we can talk about what bodybuilding is all about.
Please stop quoting Arthur Jones, Donut..

HardTrainer · 05-20-2005, 04:33 AM

Foreman your a piece of shit.

TJ Cline · 05-20-2005, 04:42 AM

Duncans Donuts is a typical Mike Mentzer lover. Please when you grow up look back on all the bull sh1t you preached. When I was a child like DD I thought I knew it all, but all that changed when I grew up. Come on you only do two sets of squats...OMG ( you make fun of the strongest power lifters in the world, squat routines). Training for four or five years doesn't make you the king of weight training knowledge. Just another kid who thinks a few steroid cycles and a few years of training makes him the expert; very sad. When you get you're own opinion I will listen to it, even if I disagree ( I love Mike too but he was full of it when it came to training).

HardTrainer · 05-20-2005, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Please don't even get me started on you dummy.

Your a fagot and a piece of shit

HardTrainer · 05-20-2005, 05:00 AM

TJ Cline · 05-20-2005, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardTrainer

Your a fagot and a piece of shit

I forgive you because you are a simple child, and we can't hurt the children.

**P-funk** · 05-20-2005, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Ok dummy explain the difference of the pectoralis minor and the pectoralis major. I'll give you an hour or two to look it up.

I saw the title of this thread and didn't want to open it because these debates are so played out. I was bored and decided to give it a read though. The ability to "isolate" either the clavicular or sternal portions of pectroallis major remains to be unseen (in science at least), regardless of what one feels when they bench press from different angles. In my opinion (take it for what it is worth), you are doing nothing more than altering the plane of motion you are working in and changing proprioception.

that being said. yes, there is a slight "interval" which does seperate the clavicular and sternal heads. However, even though they have different origin points they both share the same insertion point, "They all end in a flat tendon, about 5 cm. broad, which is inserted into the crest of the greater tubercle of the humerus" (gray's anatomy).

Pec minor has nothing to do with the argument at all. It, along with the lower traps, are just scapula stabalizers, as they work together to depress the scapula.

....go on....call me names.....

-p

Var · 05-20-2005, 06:53 AM

Propz, Funk!!!

BigDyl · 05-20-2005, 07:05 AM

Oh yeah? We'll your all big stupid heads!

Doublebase · 05-20-2005, 07:22 AM

Well I just wasted 20 minutes of work reading this thread. You bench 400 Foreman? Lets see some pics? Your are insulting some creditable members here. You are coming off very rude and ignorant. You sound educated so keep it that way. It makes you sound stupid when you insult everyone.

TJ Cline · 05-20-2005, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I saw the title of this thread and didn't want to open it because these debates are so played out. I was bored and decided to give it a read though. The ability to "isolate" either the clavicular or sternal portions of pectroallis major remains to be unseen (in science at least), regardless of what one feels when they bench press from different angles. In my opinion (take it for what it is worth), you are doing nothing more than altering the plane of motion you are working in and changing proprioception.

that being said. yes, there is a slight "interval" which does seperate the clavicular and sternal heads. However, even though they have different origin points they both share the same insertion point, "They all end in a flat tendon, about 5 cm. broad, which is inserted into the crest of the greater tubercle of the humerus" (gray's anatomy).

Pec minor has nothing to do with the argument at all. It, along with the lower traps, are just scapula stabalizers, as they work together to depress the scapula.

....go on....call me names.....

-p

Not at all you answered the question Duncans donuts could not...It was a trick question for those who reiterate what they don't understand. You have some knowledge of anatomy, yet D.D. is still looking it up. The quasi Arthur Jones pseudo science D.D rips off is a joke ( forgive me for using bullshit words like D.D, but it's too funny not to in this case) .
I have lifted weights for 25 years and all I know comes from experience I and the many of people I have had the privilege to knowing over the last 25 years have learned.
I just gave this Gentleman the best advise I had to give and the dummy's who are quick to judge and slow to understand had to chime in.
It is amazing to me that some people think all they need to do is two or three sets of squats to get big legs. Or that flat bench press is all you need to do to build a proportioned chest.
Oh well live and learn, at least I hope they do.

TJ Cline · 05-20-2005, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doublebase

Well I just wasted 20 minutes of work reading this thread. You bench 400 Foreman? Lets see some pics? Your are insulting some creditable members here. You are coming off very rude and ignorant. You sound educated so keep it that way. It makes you sound stupid when you insult everyone.

No I benched 405 raw, naturally at 206 when I was 19, now I bench press 405 raw for 11 reps at my best ( 250-260)
I just gave some advise, then the baboons jumped on me so I am sorry for defending myself.

Doublebase · 05-20-2005, 08:28 AM

pics???

TJ Cline · 05-20-2005, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doublebase

pics???

Tell me how to cover my face in a picture bro...Don't wan't to post my face on a site that talks about steroids...Thank you for the help

**dg806** · 05-20-2005, 09:31 AM

I see this thread is going nowhere! Forman, give it a rest.

rangers97 · 05-20-2005, 09:35 AM

it is my experience that when I do flat db press, it gives me the results that the incline "supposedly" does, in that it appears that my chest becomes more full and round at the top, but like I said this is done with a flat bench, only with the dbs. Of course, this is "my experience" and I am not quoting scientific fact, I can only state what my opinion is.

I used to always do inclines without fail, but now I am realizing they may not be necessary. In terms of thinking about the functions of muscles like the chest and the shoulders, wouldn't the incline press be somewhat unnatural? In terms of functionality, you can mimic the flat press in real life, ie, if you have to push something, or what a lineman in football would do, and you can mimic the overhead press by anytime you need to pick something up over your head. When would you ever mimic an incline bench movement? If I ever do incline movements again, the only ones I would do are with dbs as when you get the range of motion with the dbs, I can see it being more positive in what it is trying to accomplish (again, my opinion, not fact)

TJ Cline · 05-20-2005, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

I see this thread is going nowhere! Forman, give it a rest.

Read the entire post before you place blame.

Duncans Donuts · 05-20-2005, 11:35 AM

Wow, I really got slandered in here. I guess my response not coming fast enough was because I was ignorant, not because I was asleep

There are about a dozen threads like this in which such arguments have been broken to pieces. I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks because they are baseless and, not to blow up a word, ignorant.

TJ Cline · 05-20-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

I've taken both anatomy and physiology class. I'm a physiology major. Foreman, your attitude sucks and you are completely ignorant.

If you can isolate a portion of the pecs (minor or major) independently flex one without flexing the other. Have fun with that one, people will say you can, but I'm telling you it's impossible. This is why changing the angle on a calf raise doesn't "isolate". Isolate means to "seperate from all others" - if isolation where possible, then you could flex one head while not the other. This is garbage, and so is your attitude. Premiere is intelligent and knows what he's talking about, don't go head to head with people on this board..

Too funny you were the one to call me ignorant.
You started the personal attack as well...
Wow Donut you need to check yourself. If you can't give advise without calling another persons input " ignorant", then you really need some help.
Just look up and you will see that you began this negative dialog with me.

god hand · 05-20-2005, 12:16 PM

The point is you need to hit a muscle at different angles to make it grow. You can get an upper chest from doing decline DB just like you can get a lower chest form doing incline DB. It just depends on who you are, results will differ.

HardTrainer · 05-20-2005, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

It is amazing to me that some people think all they need to do is two or three sets of squats to get big legs

Dorain Yates did 1 set of squats 1 set on the leg press and 1 set on the extensions to faliure all sets prior where warm ups

05-20-2005, 02:15 AM	#33
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	well it didn't take him long to figure your ass out did it. Just b/c you say pec major and pec minor, like you are saying something we don't know, you think you are some sort of genius, like you impress somebody. Why not have some factualy based information to back up your claims instead of talking about shampoo?
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

05-20-2005, 02:16 AM	#34
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544	Sorry fellas I just can't take high school kids seriously. When any of you kids can bench over 400 let me know.
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544

05-20-2005, 02:41 AM	#36
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544	The clock is ticking......Look it up
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544

05-20-2005, 03:21 AM	#38
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	I've taken both anatomy and physiology class. I'm a physiology major. Foreman, your attitude sucks and you are completely ignorant. If you can isolate a portion of the pecs (minor or major) independently flex one without flexing the other. Have fun with that one, people will say you can, but I'm telling you it's impossible. This is why changing the angle on a calf raise doesn't "isolate". Isolate means to "seperate from all others" - if isolation where possible, then you could flex one head while not the other. This is garbage, and so is your attitude. Premiere is intelligent and knows what he's talking about, don't go head to head with people on this board..
	"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

05-20-2005, 04:33 AM	#40
HardTrainer Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 472	Foreman your a piece of shit.
HardTrainer Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 472

05-20-2005, 02:12 AM	#32
WilliamB Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 703	Well if I had to put my money on who is more creditable I would definetly go with Premier over you Foreman. Foreman sounds like one of those people who have trouble putting sentances together but finds a way to throw in some technical terminology to make them selves sound well informed.

05-20-2005, 04:42 AM	#41
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544	Duncans Donuts is a typical Mike Mentzer lover. Please when you grow up look back on all the bull sh1t you preached. When I was a child like DD I thought I knew it all, but all that changed when I grew up. Come on you only do two sets of squats...OMG ( you make fun of the strongest power lifters in the world, squat routines). Training for four or five years doesn't make you the king of weight training knowledge. Just another kid who thinks a few steroid cycles and a few years of training makes him the expert; very sad. When you get you're own opinion I will listen to it, even if I disagree ( I love Mike too but he was full of it when it came to training).
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544

05-20-2005, 05:00 AM	#43
HardTrainer Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 472
HardTrainer Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 472

05-20-2005, 06:53 AM	#46
Var Filthy Animal Join Date: May 2002 Location: Finally back in New England!! Posts: 5,438	Propz, Funk!!!
	But when you disarm them, you at once offend them by showing that you distrust them, either for cowardice or for want of loyalty, and either of these opinions breeds hatred against you. -N. Machiavelli

05-20-2005, 07:22 AM	#48
Doublebase Lightweight, Ya Buddy! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philly Posts: 6,633	Well I just wasted 20 minutes of work reading this thread. You bench 400 Foreman? Lets see some pics? Your are insulting some creditable members here. You are coming off very rude and ignorant. You sound educated so keep it that way. It makes you sound stupid when you insult everyone.

05-20-2005, 08:28 AM	#51
Doublebase Lightweight, Ya Buddy! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philly Posts: 6,633	pics???

05-20-2005, 09:31 AM	#53
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,438	I see this thread is going nowhere! Forman, give it a rest.
	www.sbmuscle.com

05-20-2005, 09:35 AM	#54
rangers97 2006 Stanley Cup Champs! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New York Posts: 245	it is my experience that when I do flat db press, it gives me the results that the incline "supposedly" does, in that it appears that my chest becomes more full and round at the top, but like I said this is done with a flat bench, only with the dbs. Of course, this is "my experience" and I am not quoting scientific fact, I can only state what my opinion is. I used to always do inclines without fail, but now I am realizing they may not be necessary. In terms of thinking about the functions of muscles like the chest and the shoulders, wouldn't the incline press be somewhat unnatural? In terms of functionality, you can mimic the flat press in real life, ie, if you have to push something, or what a lineman in football would do, and you can mimic the overhead press by anytime you need to pick something up over your head. When would you ever mimic an incline bench movement? If I ever do incline movements again, the only ones I would do are with dbs as when you get the range of motion with the dbs, I can see it being more positive in what it is trying to accomplish (again, my opinion, not fact)

05-20-2005, 11:35 AM	#56
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	Wow, I really got slandered in here. I guess my response not coming fast enough was because I was ignorant, not because I was asleep There are about a dozen threads like this in which such arguments have been broken to pieces. I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks because they are baseless and, not to blow up a word, ignorant.
	"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

05-20-2005, 12:16 PM	#58
god hand 10.5 out of 10 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Dallas Posts: 4,217 Photos: 4	The point is you need to hit a muscle at different angles to make it grow. You can get an upper chest from doing decline DB just like you can get a lower chest form doing incline DB. It just depends on who you are, results will differ.