Maki Riddington

Originally posted by Supreme,

I don't think squats are essential.
Let's take a look at the benefits of squats over other exercises of the kind (hack's, leg press, etc)...

Larger hormonal response

More stabilizer activation

Trains lower body through full ROM (assuming you go ATF)

That's all I can think of off the top of my head...

Now, if we were to combine deadlifts and leg press to compensate for the lack of squats...

Deads and squats share statistically equal hormonal effects

Deads involve just about the same amount of stabilizer activation

Leg press trains the lower body in pretty much the same ROM as squats.

The only thing that I can see that makes squats superior here is efficeincy, which isn't a huge deal.

*** "Pretty much the same ROM" needs to be distiguished since the sticking point as Supreme pointed out in another post plays a big factor in Squats. The leg press really does not have a sticking point unless you go through the full ROM which varies between individuals. Therefore it must be distiguished what the full ROM is.

The role the pelvis plays in stabilizing the spine would depend on the ROM carried out in both movements. After a certain point in the Leg Press the pelvis will posteriorly rotate. This is not nessicarily harmful but can be if done excessively.



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Exercise, my drug of choice

TheSupremeBeing

Am I supposed to reply?

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Frankster

no.. cause you are wrong

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My tuna is my tuna... its not yours... don't touch my tuna.. and I won't kill you- Tuna Master

TheSupremeBeing

Pffft.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Maki Riddington

You can if you like.

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Exercise, my drug of choice

TheSupremeBeing

Well, IMHO one should try to avoid the mechanical sticking point to prevent failing because of unfavorable mechanics rather than muscle fatigue. Yes the sticking point will vary slightly due to individual joint geometry (i.e. lever length, tendon strength, etc), but if one has a specific sticking point in the squat (say just below parellel - most common), then this sticking point will most likely carry over to the leg press, making this point a non-issue in comparing the two exercises.

Very good point, but why not just go to just before this point? What benefit does going to that point provide along with the obvious negatives; like I said previosly I think going extra low is unnecessary. Comparing a deadlift(especially sumo deads)/leg press duo to the squat makes an interesting case against the "squats can't be replaced by anything" arguement often espoused.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

ALBOB

To say squats CAN'T be replaced is absurd. It's an absolute and in nature there are very few absolutes. Having said that, I don't think you made a fair comparison. When you hear that squats are superior to "every" other exercise it's a one-on-one comparison, ie. squats vs. leg press, squats vs. deads, squats vs. bench press, squats vs. whatever. Your contention is that you can duplicate squats with a combination of TWO other exercises. Sorry, that tells me the original statement is true. It takes two exercises to equal one squat. So, bottom line; yes, squats can be replaced, but it'll take you two other exercises to do it.

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Life is hard so quit whining and go out there and be alive.

Scotty the Body

I agree, if you can't do squats because of some injury that provents it, you can compensate with other exercises but if you can do them, DO THEM!!


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Just another day in the gutter

Maki Riddington

Supreme said,
but if one has a specific sticking point in the squat (say just below parellel - most common), then this sticking point will most likely carry over to the leg press, making this point a non-issue in comparing the two exercises.

*** The carry over is unlikely.
This sticking point you are referring to can be linked to a weakness in the hip extensors as well as the low back.

In the leg press the low back and hip extensors play a small role since the back is supported by the pad.

Supreme said,
Very good point, but why not just go to just before this point? What benefit does going to that point provide along with the obvious negatives; like I said previosly I think going extra low is unnecessary.

*** Therefore the ROM is not the same. This would translate into a greater strength increase if the individual were to squat below parallel. Which I reccomend.

Supreme said,
Comparing a deadlift(especially sumo deads)/leg press duo to the squat makes an interesting case against the "squats can't be replaced by anything" arguement often espoused.

*** Ablob summed it up.

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Exercise, my drug of choice

TheSupremeBeing

Ok then...but you're still an angry drunken asian.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

walter

the squat will and can never be replaced by any other exercise. Are you guys brain dead or something? The Squay andBench are the two most improtant exercises you can do. You can't replace Squats w/ leg presses. Most people don't know but the squat works more than just your legs. It helps you on alll of your other core lifts, the stronger your squat the better. You can't replace the squat! This board is so uneducated about the most basic workout question's there are. I have seen all of your pictures, and stats and I must say you guys need to develope and new workout and quite taking each others advice, because its not working. All you jackasses say especialy SUPREME say I lie abou my stats, when I hav be lifting formany years know. If I could only take each and every one of you to the gym, and show you are real workout, other than the "MaSS BUILDING", one body part per day" workouts you ladies are doing maybe the resuolts will come for you. P.s Its great to throw on 3 plates per side and rep it out for 2 almost 3 on the Decline, and flat bench, weighing under 180.

Mr.Xtreme

Yeah he is right Squats are a big key in building muscle.........They work so many muscles in your body that you don't even know of. HOld on I will give Supreme enough time to come back and tell me how many muscles it does work becuase I know is just squirting his pants to look in his books right now.

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Don't ever look behind at the things you have don't. Always look forward.

Scotty the Body

I resent your comments Walter, I think your missing the whole point of this post, no one said other movements were BETTER than squats.
Maki brought it up cause of a post that Steve posted as he can't do regular squats because of his MS so we're discussing alternatives that could work for someone like him.

So I suggest before you call me or other people on this board "LADIES AND JACKASSES" you read a little more and think with your head instead of your ass.


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Just another day in the gutter

Maki Riddington

Well said Scotty.

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Exercise, my drug of choice

Prince

What is a "Squay"?



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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

ZONE

Good job Scotty. Who is this guy anyway? Mr. America? NOT!

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Thoughts are more powerful then Matter

Scotty the Body

I can see this getting worse before better.

Sorry you didn't see the point of the topic Walter.

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Just another day in the gutter

walter

I have read all of your guys' posts, and yes you guys well ,most of you are jackasses.

I Are Baboon

THANKS!

ballast

Thanks for the kind words Asshole.

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"I'm just an ordinary guy with nothing to lose."

CarbAddict

Jeez Walter, who pissed in your Wheaties this morning?
Just because we might disagree with you doesn't constitute a justifiable reason for the attitude we're all receiving.

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Go the extra mile. It makes your boss look like an incompetent slacker.