Difference Between CG Bench and PL Bench

Rocco32 · 06-23-2005, 10:59 AM

What exactly is the difference between CG Bench for those of us that go just inside Shoulder width grip and the form for Powerlifter's Bench? As far as Grip Width goes it seems there is only maybe a 2 inch difference if that. Or do I grip in too close using Powerlifting style?

**P-funk** · 06-23-2005, 11:39 AM

CG bench, PL grip bench, BB grip bench!!?? Who cares. Just know that the closer you go the more tricep you will be recruiting. Don't worry about what it is called. If you bench out like a BB'er and go closer then that is your CG bench press. If you bench close like a PL'er and go a little closer then that is your CG bench. It is all relative to the person and the most comfortable hand placement for them. Other than that, fuck it. A bench press is a bench press is a bench press. It is just a horizontal press if you want to think of it that way (that is how i think of it).

Rocco32 · 06-23-2005, 11:42 AM

Thanks Patrick. I guess my concern is I'm doing Westside again and I don't want to keep mimicking the same exercise after bench and go to CG Bench, does that make sense? I was also wondering if my grip for PL style was too close in if I'm grabbing the bar at shoulder width.

**P-funk** · 06-23-2005, 11:52 AM

Still I wouldn't worry about it. Just because you are doing a powerlifter routien doesn't mean you have to bench with that grip. Bench with the grip that is most comfortable for you. If you like it more inside great. If not, great!

Rocco32 · 06-23-2005, 01:21 PM

So you think I can do Westside and still bench using a BB'ing form? Thanks for answering the questions

Triple Threat · 06-23-2005, 02:00 PM

Shoulder width is the most comfortable for me too. I'll use various grips going as wide as shoulder width and as narrow as two fingers on the smooth part.

**P-funk** · 06-23-2005, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocco32

So you think I can do Westside and still bench using a BB'ing form? Thanks for answering the questions

yes, you can do westside using a wider grip bench press and squatting with a narrow stance and high bar and deadlifting with a narrow stance. Westside is just a template to follow. It has nothing to do with laying down rules of form for exercises.

**CowPimp** · 06-24-2005, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

yes, you can do westside using a wider grip bench press and squatting with a narrow stance and high bar and deadlifting with a narrow stance. Westside is just a template to follow. It has nothing to do with laying down rules of form for exercises.

Agreed. However, you will definitely be moving more weight in the end if you choose to do all the movement PL style.

Also, when it comes to the CG bench press, I think many people go too close. If your wrists don't mind, then I suppose there's nothing wrong with it. However, my CG bench is only a few inches closer in than my standard bench. My wrists never feel comfortable at very close grips. They don't hurt, but I like to be comfortable when I lift.

**P-funk** · 06-24-2005, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Agreed. However, you will definitely be moving more weight in the end if you choose to do all the movement PL style.

yes, I agree. But, after trainig many people, athletes, the average person, overweight people, moms, dads, etc.....Here is the main thing I have learned. What is good for one is not good for all. For Rocco, lets face it, he is not trying to do a powerlifting meet (unless he is??). He is just trying to have fun in the weight room and improve his health and quality of llife. he doesn't have to work like a mad man to try and relaern his squat technique, bench press or deadlift form just so that he can do a westside BB training program. I say, just do the program and have fun with it. Perform the lifts in the manner which you feel most comfortable. Does that make any sense?

gr81 · 06-24-2005, 06:40 AM

Quote:

So you think I can do Westside and still bench using a BB'ing form? Thanks for answering the questions

there is actually quite a difference between a BB bench and a PL bench, it certainly is notable for someone gicing westside a try. A powerlifter keeps his shoulders closer to the body, his shoulder blades as tight together as possible, and as much of an arch as possible with momentum from the movement driving from his feet. A bodybuilder may have some arch, but his main goal is to recruit fibers in the chest which does not happen with your shoulders in. A PL bench is as more a tricep and lat movement than it is chest, so yes it absolutely does make a difference. Rocky if you are westsiding you defn need to learn the difference, As far as hand width thou, P is basically right. HE does need to relearn his tehcnique thou if he is goin from a bodybuilding based routine to a powerlifters routine. The difference is night and day and by choosing to do westside I would assume his main goal is strength and getting his numbers up. if that is the case then every last bit of technique in each lift needs to be sound. The entire program is based off constantly fine tuning technique and improving the "links in the chain" so to speak of each movement.

gr81 · 06-24-2005, 07:36 AM

Quote:

yes, you can do westside using a wider grip bench press and squatting with a narrow stance and high bar and deadlifting with a narrow stance. Westside is just a template to follow. It has nothing to do with laying down rules of form for exercises.

Gotta disagree strongly here my man, but P it has everything to do with technique. It doesn't mean you can't squat narrower necessarily, but your statement is defn not at all true about westside. WSB is all about learning the biomechanics of the movements and perfecting them technically through prioritizing and focusing on determined weakpoints both through form and strength training. For instance, if your not learning to use your abs when you squat or fire the glutes in the dead and so on and so on, and constantly trying to perfect your technique then your lifts simply won't reach their full potential, and thats what westside is about

**Mudge** · 06-24-2005, 07:57 AM

Everyone performs the lifts differently, not all big squatters go wide - especially without briefs.

Anyhow, not sure I completely understand the question, but you have several grips to choose from:

Power close grip, pinky on the ring
Close grip, forefinger where the knurling begins on the bar
Widest legal grip, forefinger at the ring

Glen Chabot did close grips outside of competitions for most of his pressing.

**P-funk** · 06-24-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Everyone performs the lifts differently, not all big squatters go wide especially without briefs.

I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr81

Gotta disagree strongly here my man, but P it has everything to do with technique. It doesn't mean you can't squat narrower necessarily, but your statement is defn not at all true about westside. WSB is all about learning the biomechanics of the movements and perfecting them technically through prioritizing and focusing on determined weakpoints both through form and strength training. For instance, if your not learning to use your abs when you squat or fire the glutes in the dead and so on and so on, and constantly trying to perfect your technique then your lifts simply won't reach their full potential, and thats what westside is about

I still disagree with that for a number of reasons:

1) Westside training program has nothing to do with the manner in which the lifts are performed. it is simply a template. A model for conjugate periodization to follow. It isn't like Louie Simmons invented this stuff. He sites Zatsiorsky and Siff countless times. The ideas behind the template were used by many many people who have come before and they don't perform the lifts in the west side manner. Just because you aren't lifting westside doesn't mean you can't take a lift and disect it and work the technique and form neccessary to perfect that lift. Just because the guys at westside lift in a cetain way doesn't mean that you need to also. Matt Smith and a few of the other guys still pull conventional deadlifts in contest. Are they any worse of or less technically sound than the others?? All Rocco is doing is following the westside training template. He doesn't have to perform lifts like they do. If a person chooses to do a Marine or Navy seal workout does that mean that they have to perform their push ups, situps and pull ups in 50lbs of gear in the Alabama swamps in the middle of summer?? If I choose to follow an olympic lifting routine that was designed for by the chinese strength coach does that mean I need to change my form and power jerk everything and pull my snatches with my clean grip jsut because they do it?? No way! I am going to snatch how I snatch and do a traditional split jerk. All I am following, like rocco, is someone elses method for periodization. I am not trying to copy their lifting style neccessarily.

2) Rocco is not trying to do a powerlifting meet. He isn't trying to lift at westside BB either. He is just trying to gain some strength and maybe break some personal records. Certainly this can be achieved by performing the lifts in the way that are most comfortable to him. What applies to the westside guys doesn't neccessarily apply to the general public. I am not saying that he doesn't have to practice lifting with a different form if he doesn't want to but he doesn't have to rack his brain to try and lift like most of the westside lifters either.

3) I wouldn't advise a person to squat like a powerlifter knowing that they have scoliosis, like rocco does. It is going to place to much pressure on the lumbar spine. I would rather see him squat with a hip to shoulder width stance down to his comfortable ROM instead of trying to lift like these guys with his condition. The risk is greater than the reward in this case.

gr81 · 06-24-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

1) Westside training program has nothing to do with the manner in which the lifts are performed. it is simply a template.

defn not true. I never claimed anything about Louie Simmons, I have read Zatsiorsky and i have read Siff. I realize the conjugated method is a template and one of teh great things about WSB is the individuals ability to adapt it to themselves. Rocco doesn't have to do anything to the T, your right about that. I am merely just stating that westside is all about the numbers, and one would assume that if you are following WSB you would be all about your numbers as well, whether or not you plan to compete is irrelevant. P you know biomechanics as well as anyone here so you should know that there are a million little things that a person could to do be able to lift that much more, and if you are all about the numbers then one wold assume that you would be interested in being technically sound. You are right, he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want, he can take away from the program what every fits him, and in no way am I preaching that WSB can only be done one way. It certainly can be a template for someone if they choose and thats perfectly fine. But I have studied WSB for years and to say that WSB is not about perfecting technique is not at all accurate. The whole entire program is based off examing how the lifts are performed by breaking down each movement. no doubt.. anyways my two cents.. peace man

**P-funk** · 06-24-2005, 03:13 PM

I didn't say that they are not about perfecting technique. But, jsut because you don't lift like them doesn;t mean you can perfect your technique in the manner in which you lift. Any powerlifting routine is all about the numbers!! So I don't know what you are getting at?? Just becasue I do westside and don't squat wide doesn't mean that I dont care about the numbers or about my technique. Like I said, there are guys at westside, like matt smith, that don't deadlift wide.

Westisde is all about the gear too. Should Rocco get a bench shirt and squat suit?

Westside guys also do a good deal of steroids. Should rocco go on the same cycles that they are on??

gr81 · 06-24-2005, 04:20 PM

your misunderstanding me brotha, I am not saying you have to mimic their exact movements and subscribe to their every thought. read my statement, I said he should do whatever he wants and take what he wants from it, thats fine. I also never said that there is only one way to squat/ dead and you ahve to have a certain stance. I was merely rebutting your statement that westside has nothing to do with technique, which it absolutely does. go back and read my posts, b/c your putting words into my mouth and your not hearing what I am saying. Deadlift/squat wide or narrow, it matters not, thats not the argument

**P-funk** · 06-24-2005, 05:37 PM

yea, but I also didn't say that westside was not about technique. You put those words into my mouth. I simply stated that he could perform the routine using whatever was most comfortable for him. He doesn't neccessarily have to perform the exercises as some of those guys do. I don't know of any strength or powerlifting program (or any program really) where technique and form are not paramount over everything else. If I squat narrow I could do westside, still work on my narrow stance squat technique, analyze my form and find out my weaknesses. Perform my Good AM with my narrow squat stance and still put up big numbers and see amazing improvments in all my lifts. That is all I was saying. I guess I really didn't understand your argument.

gr81 · 06-24-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

If I squat narrow I could do westside, still work on my narrow stance squat technique, analyze my form and find out my weaknesses. Perform my Good AM with my narrow squat stance and still put up big numbers and see amazing improvments in all my lifts. That is all I was saying. I guess I really didn't understand your argument.

totally agree mayn.. 'tis all good my friend

Tough Old Man · 06-24-2005, 08:33 PM

This was one of the beter replys from two of our more knowledgeable people. We need more disagreements from the two of you. I don't mean this to be dis respectf, but found it very amusing to read. Hey 81 how's school bro?

gr81 · 06-24-2005, 09:10 PM

ya know its funny that you say that b/c this is the first time I remember disagreeing with Patrick come to think of it, although it wasn't really a disagreement..lol

things are good bro thanks, took a little break b/c of a job that didn't end up panning out, which sucks so I probably won't be back til fall. I am also cutting which is goin well..peace

**P-funk** · 06-24-2005, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

This was one of the beter replys from two of our more knowledgeable people. We need more disagreements from the two of you. I don't mean this to be dis respectf, but found it very amusing to read. Hey 81 how's school bro?

it is funny when people have a logical debate without name calling, flaming or the general retardation that usually plagues these threads.

**CowPimp** · 06-25-2005, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

yes, I agree. But, after trainig many people, athletes, the average person, overweight people, moms, dads, etc.....Here is the main thing I have learned. What is good for one is not good for all. For Rocco, lets face it, he is not trying to do a powerlifting meet (unless he is??). He is just trying to have fun in the weight room and improve his health and quality of llife. he doesn't have to work like a mad man to try and relaern his squat technique, bench press or deadlift form just so that he can do a westside BB training program. I say, just do the program and have fun with it. Perform the lifts in the manner which you feel most comfortable. Does that make any sense?

I understand this well. However, I do believe the added benefit of reducing the stress on one's shoulders is reason enough to go PL style. I went PL style a while ago and I'll never go back.

**P-funk** · 06-25-2005, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I understand this well. However, I do believe the added benefit of reducing the stress on one's shoulders is reason enough to go PL style. I went PL style a while ago and I'll never go back.

yes, i agree as well. the closer grip feels much better on the shoulder.

06-23-2005, 10:59 AM	#1
Rocco32 UNLEASH THE BEAST Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 22,313 Photos: 18	Difference Between CG Bench and PL Bench What exactly is the difference between CG Bench for those of us that go just inside Shoulder width grip and the form for Powerlifter's Bench? As far as Grip Width goes it seems there is only maybe a 2 inch difference if that. Or do I grip in too close using Powerlifting style?
	I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain...

06-23-2005, 11:39 AM	#2
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,629	CG bench, PL grip bench, BB grip bench!!?? Who cares. Just know that the closer you go the more tricep you will be recruiting. Don't worry about what it is called. If you bench out like a BB'er and go closer then that is your CG bench press. If you bench close like a PL'er and go a little closer then that is your CG bench. It is all relative to the person and the most comfortable hand placement for them. Other than that, fuck it. A bench press is a bench press is a bench press. It is just a horizontal press if you want to think of it that way (that is how i think of it).
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-23-2005, 11:42 AM	#3
Rocco32 UNLEASH THE BEAST Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 22,313 Photos: 18	Thanks Patrick. I guess my concern is I'm doing Westside again and I don't want to keep mimicking the same exercise after bench and go to CG Bench, does that make sense? I was also wondering if my grip for PL style was too close in if I'm grabbing the bar at shoulder width.
	I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain...

06-23-2005, 11:52 AM	#4
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,629	Still I wouldn't worry about it. Just because you are doing a powerlifter routien doesn't mean you have to bench with that grip. Bench with the grip that is most comfortable for you. If you like it more inside great. If not, great!
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-23-2005, 01:21 PM	#5
Rocco32 UNLEASH THE BEAST Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 22,313 Photos: 18	So you think I can do Westside and still bench using a BB'ing form? Thanks for answering the questions
	I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain...

06-23-2005, 02:00 PM	#6
Triple Threat ... Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lost Posts: 9,490 Photos: 6	Shoulder width is the most comfortable for me too. I'll use various grips going as wide as shoulder width and as narrow as two fingers on the smooth part.

06-24-2005, 07:57 AM	#12
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,071 Photos: 1	Everyone performs the lifts differently, not all big squatters go wide - especially without briefs. Anyhow, not sure I completely understand the question, but you have several grips to choose from: Power close grip, pinky on the ring Close grip, forefinger where the knurling begins on the bar Widest legal grip, forefinger at the ring Glen Chabot did close grips outside of competitions for most of his pressing.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

06-24-2005, 03:13 PM	#15
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,629	I didn't say that they are not about perfecting technique. But, jsut because you don't lift like them doesn;t mean you can perfect your technique in the manner in which you lift. Any powerlifting routine is all about the numbers!! So I don't know what you are getting at?? Just becasue I do westside and don't squat wide doesn't mean that I dont care about the numbers or about my technique. Like I said, there are guys at westside, like matt smith, that don't deadlift wide. Westisde is all about the gear too. Should Rocco get a bench shirt and squat suit? Westside guys also do a good deal of steroids. Should rocco go on the same cycles that they are on??
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-24-2005, 04:20 PM	#16
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	your misunderstanding me brotha, I am not saying you have to mimic their exact movements and subscribe to their every thought. read my statement, I said he should do whatever he wants and take what he wants from it, thats fine. I also never said that there is only one way to squat/ dead and you ahve to have a certain stance. I was merely rebutting your statement that westside has nothing to do with technique, which it absolutely does. go back and read my posts, b/c your putting words into my mouth and your not hearing what I am saying. Deadlift/squat wide or narrow, it matters not, thats not the argument
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

06-24-2005, 05:37 PM	#17
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,629	yea, but I also didn't say that westside was not about technique. You put those words into my mouth. I simply stated that he could perform the routine using whatever was most comfortable for him. He doesn't neccessarily have to perform the exercises as some of those guys do. I don't know of any strength or powerlifting program (or any program really) where technique and form are not paramount over everything else. If I squat narrow I could do westside, still work on my narrow stance squat technique, analyze my form and find out my weaknesses. Perform my Good AM with my narrow squat stance and still put up big numbers and see amazing improvments in all my lifts. That is all I was saying. I guess I really didn't understand your argument.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-24-2005, 08:33 PM	#19
Tough Old Man Canine club CEO Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: baja calif, Mexico Posts: 6,933 Photos: 1	This was one of the beter replys from two of our more knowledgeable people. We need more disagreements from the two of you. I don't mean this to be dis respectf, but found it very amusing to read. Hey 81 how's school bro?

06-24-2005, 09:10 PM	#20
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	ya know its funny that you say that b/c this is the first time I remember disagreeing with Patrick come to think of it, although it wasn't really a disagreement..lol things are good bro thanks, took a little break b/c of a job that didn't end up panning out, which sucks so I probably won't be back til fall. I am also cutting which is goin well..peace
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics