Bench Argument

Alaric · 08-05-2005, 05:53 PM

So I've always been a believer of full ROM, however, some people do not agree with this. This guy claims that it is physi8cally impossible for some people to touch their chest on the bench press, is his reasoning correct?

Quote:

The amount of extension during a bench press varies from individual to individual. It's funny, because in the gym, you get scoffed at if you don't hit your chest with the bar. I know people do it to me, and I just laugh back at them say "you know, you're not getting range of full range of motion at the top either so I suggest you switch hand positions on the bar at the top, and twist so your hands cross your body!!!" They kind of look at me in confusion.

How can someone with a wide and deep rib cage with short forearms HAVE UNIVERSALLY the same range of motion as a guy with a thin rib cage and long forearms? If you are powerlifter, that's an exception because That's the rules. So if you are a powerlifter, just hope that you are BUILT for powerlifting, if not, a) you will never be successful and b) you will be an orthopedic nightmare.

Remember when discussing range of motion the relationship between the bar and the body is irrelevant. Look at the body's mechanics, the mechanics/structure/function of the joint, passive and active ROM, the weight you are lifting and other potential concerns.

I've always told my friends to touch their chest when benching, but if this could in fact be true I'm going to have to be more open minded about the bench press.

TJ Cline · 08-05-2005, 06:18 PM

It might be true if you have some type of disability, or an injury. But 99 x out of 100 its just an excuse.

* Legion * · 08-05-2005, 06:21 PM

he has several good points, especially about thinking scientifically and critically about what a muscle/joint/group of muscles do in the human body. the bench, though a great exercise for strength and mass, causes considerable debate, especially over whether or not it is a "Natural" movement for the design of the human body. i also think that you, by being a stickler for full ROM, are smart to incorporate this into your workouts. as a powerlifter, often i see guys doing "partial reps," which have some practical and beneficial application. however, in my opinion, unless you are well spotted, partial reps on a bench is just an invitation for an accident.
there are those who completely swear off benching, arguing that it is terrible for the shoulders and that it is not an efficient or "true" measure of one's upper body strength. however, the norm that has been set and generally accepted in highschools, college, and in the gym is the "how much you bench" contest. if you are dedicated, you will do what works for you. my only benching contest is with myself. im the guy who is always there to spot others in the gym.
There is also the repeated arguement about the "bodybuilding" bench and the "powerlifting" bench. whatever. worthless arguement. do what works. personally, as a powerlifter who still wants to build massive muscles, i hate the bench, i struggle with the bench, and being 6'4" i struggle when i see others with excessive bodyfat and "different proportions" benching with an apparent smaller ROM. whatever. i am not the best bencher, i will not be a world class bencher, but being 280, i know that i should be benching in the 600's. i am not. i am stuck at 415.

Tough Old Man · 08-05-2005, 07:47 PM

Well tear a rotator cuff and try touch your chest!

Tough Old Man · 08-05-2005, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by * Legion *

he has several good points, especially about thinking scientifically and critically about what a muscle/joint/group of muscles do in the human body. the bench, though a great exercise for strength and mass, causes considerable debate, especially over whether or not it is a "Natural" movement for the design of the human body. i also think that you, by being a stickler for full ROM, are smart to incorporate this into your workouts. as a powerlifter, often i see guys doing "partial reps," which have some practical and beneficial application. however, in my opinion, unless you are well spotted, partial reps on a bench is just an invitation for an accident.
there are those who completely swear off benching, arguing that it is terrible for the shoulders and that it is not an efficient or "true" measure of one's upper body strength. however, the norm that has been set and generally accepted in highschools, college, and in the gym is the "how much you bench" contest. if you are dedicated, you will do what works for you. my only benching contest is with myself. im the guy who is always there to spot others in the gym.
There is also the repeated arguement about the "bodybuilding" bench and the "powerlifting" bench. whatever. worthless arguement. do what works. personally, as a powerlifter who still wants to build massive muscles, i hate the bench, i struggle with the bench, and being 6'4" i struggle when i see others with excessive bodyfat and "different proportions" benching with an apparent smaller ROM. whatever. i am not the best bencher, i will not be a world class bencher, but being 280, i know that i should be benching in the 600's. i am not. i am stuck at 415.

Are you kidding me. You weigh 280 lbs and think you should be benching 600 lbs. Get a grip on yourself. You'd be surprise how many bodybuilders never hit 300 lbs on the bench press.

* Legion * · 08-05-2005, 08:07 PM

LOL

i appreciate the boost... just saying that i have a goal, 600 is it. i train for it, among other goals.

TJ Cline · 08-05-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by * Legion *

LOL

i appreciate the boost... just saying that i have a goal, 600 is it. i train for it, among other goals.

I hear you, im turning 40 in less than 2 years and my goal is a raw 550 comp bench at 242.

**Mudge** · 08-05-2005, 09:34 PM

My biceps sometimes get in the way of an incline bench from touching my chest, depending on the angle. My arms have to be over 19" for this to be a problem.

LAM · 08-05-2005, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

It might be true if you have some type of disability, or an injury. But 99 x out of 100 its just an excuse.

exactly...

Ddevildownn · 08-06-2005, 01:27 AM

In my opinion the guy is correct, if you happen to have a shallow rib-cage and short arms it is highly likely that you will expose yourself to injury going all the way to the chest while pressing. This is for much the same reason as doing behind the neck exercises is asking for an injury unless you have a perfectly shaped shoulder joint. For the aforementioned individuals with long arms and shallow chests they will be force to rotate their shoulders to reach the point where they will touch their chest.

I personally try to go as deep as I can when I bench but some days it really causes me considerable pain. I originally thought that it was an imbalance so I started focusing on my back as much as I could, and now row 40 pounds above what I bench and most of the time going all the way to the chest the pain returns after the first set. So I tried going to about an inch above and presto, no more pain.

So in theory and personal experience I would say this guy isn't too far off base. Better to lift pain free and for a lifetime, than look perfect while working out and tear a rotator cuff and spend the rest of my life potentially in pain. It just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

**CowPimp** · 08-06-2005, 04:07 PM

Eh, this might be true for a small percentage of the population. However, I guarantee it's a cop out for the vast majority of those who bench press.

**Mudge** · 08-06-2005, 04:51 PM

For those that bench high on the chest it would be easier to run into this problem.

Ddevildownn · 08-06-2005, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Eh, this might be true for a small percentage of the population. However, I guarantee it's a cop out for the vast majority of those who bench press.

Agreed, I am personally the only person I know of with a problem coming all the way to the chest.

Mudge is also right there, when I am doing low reps, high weight I tend to come a bit below my sternum and touch to my chest without incident. Perhaps I should just do that when I am doing 8-12 and not just the 1-8 range. I am just trying to avoid tricep over involvement by coming to right below my nipples.

**Mudge** · 08-06-2005, 07:18 PM

I did some neck presses and I get a mean, mean stretch. I was losing strength off my regular bench though, my arms were shrinking (there went my tricep work), and I didn't feel anything special about doing neck presses.

The more weight I can reasonably use, even if its a compound and not as much an isolation movement, then I'm going to do it because thats what seems to work best for me. The exception for me is dumbell bicep work, thats about it.

08-05-2005, 06:18 PM	#2
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544	It might be true if you have some type of disability, or an injury. But 99 x out of 100 its just an excuse. Last edited by TJ Cline : 08-05-2005 at 06:29 PM.
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544

08-05-2005, 09:34 PM	#8
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,068 Photos: 1	My biceps sometimes get in the way of an incline bench from touching my chest, depending on the angle. My arms have to be over 19" for this to be a problem.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

08-06-2005, 04:07 PM	#11
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	Eh, this might be true for a small percentage of the population. However, I guarantee it's a cop out for the vast majority of those who bench press.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

08-06-2005, 04:51 PM	#12
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,068 Photos: 1	For those that bench high on the chest it would be easier to run into this problem.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

08-06-2005, 07:18 PM	#14
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,068 Photos: 1	I did some neck presses and I get a mean, mean stretch. I was losing strength off my regular bench though, my arms were shrinking (there went my tricep work), and I didn't feel anything special about doing neck presses. The more weight I can reasonably use, even if its a compound and not as much an isolation movement, then I'm going to do it because thats what seems to work best for me. The exception for me is dumbell bicep work, thats about it.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

08-05-2005, 06:21 PM	#3
* Legion * Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Suburb of Chicago, Il. USA Posts: 711 Photos: 2	he has several good points, especially about thinking scientifically and critically about what a muscle/joint/group of muscles do in the human body. the bench, though a great exercise for strength and mass, causes considerable debate, especially over whether or not it is a "Natural" movement for the design of the human body. i also think that you, by being a stickler for full ROM, are smart to incorporate this into your workouts. as a powerlifter, often i see guys doing "partial reps," which have some practical and beneficial application. however, in my opinion, unless you are well spotted, partial reps on a bench is just an invitation for an accident. there are those who completely swear off benching, arguing that it is terrible for the shoulders and that it is not an efficient or "true" measure of one's upper body strength. however, the norm that has been set and generally accepted in highschools, college, and in the gym is the "how much you bench" contest. if you are dedicated, you will do what works for you. my only benching contest is with myself. im the guy who is always there to spot others in the gym. There is also the repeated arguement about the "bodybuilding" bench and the "powerlifting" bench. whatever. worthless arguement. do what works. personally, as a powerlifter who still wants to build massive muscles, i hate the bench, i struggle with the bench, and being 6'4" i struggle when i see others with excessive bodyfat and "different proportions" benching with an apparent smaller ROM. whatever. i am not the best bencher, i will not be a world class bencher, but being 280, i know that i should be benching in the 600's. i am not. i am stuck at 415.

08-05-2005, 07:47 PM	#4
Tough Old Man Canine club CEO Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: baja calif, Mexico Posts: 6,933 Photos: 1	Well tear a rotator cuff and try touch your chest!

08-05-2005, 08:07 PM	#6
* Legion * Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Suburb of Chicago, Il. USA Posts: 711 Photos: 2	LOL i appreciate the boost... just saying that i have a goal, 600 is it. i train for it, among other goals.

08-06-2005, 01:27 AM	#10
Ddevildownn Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 27	In my opinion the guy is correct, if you happen to have a shallow rib-cage and short arms it is highly likely that you will expose yourself to injury going all the way to the chest while pressing. This is for much the same reason as doing behind the neck exercises is asking for an injury unless you have a perfectly shaped shoulder joint. For the aforementioned individuals with long arms and shallow chests they will be force to rotate their shoulders to reach the point where they will touch their chest. I personally try to go as deep as I can when I bench but some days it really causes me considerable pain. I originally thought that it was an imbalance so I started focusing on my back as much as I could, and now row 40 pounds above what I bench and most of the time going all the way to the chest the pain returns after the first set. So I tried going to about an inch above and presto, no more pain. So in theory and personal experience I would say this guy isn't too far off base. Better to lift pain free and for a lifetime, than look perfect while working out and tear a rotator cuff and spend the rest of my life potentially in pain. It just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

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