pumpthatiron

I was reading about CNS and how training to failure all the time is not a very good thing to do. My question to you guys is that how do u know just when to stop? And will you still be able to make as many gains if you stop at the point before failure so it's good for your CNS and good for hypertrophy?

Any constructive comments will be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Mudge

In theory you should be switching something in your routine every 3 weeks to avoid overtraining, when training heavy (5 rep and below) and/or to failure.

Westside Barbell has a bit of information on this, since they require such knowlege to continue to make progress. Most of the research on this comes from Russian sport-science.

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pumpthatiron

oh, can you please be kind enough to give me some links that I can read up on about this topic.

Thanks

TJ Cline

Is training to failure with 10-15 reps ok or does that mess with your CNS also?

pumpthatiron

good question, I was wondering the same...

HardTrainer

I don't really understand how changing a movement can relieve stress on your body.

If you still push yourself to the same limit on the new exercise and as long as it is a similar exercise that delivers equal stresses i.e. bb bench - db bench you in fact by changing the exercise deliver more stress on your body by damaging your muscle fibers in a different altered movement due to the new exercise that helps break adaptation.

Even if you change exercises every week then still, from one exercise to the next the stress on the CNS be it from from an incline, decline or flat bench press is still stress on the CNS.

If i run forward until i fall down in exhaustion then next week i run backwards until i fall, i still place similar equal stress on my body at the time.

Maybe if you change a bench press to a fly you place less stress on your body due to the smaller amount of muscles being stimulated at one time, but what is the point in that? to me changing a flat bench to a decline is still placing very similar stresses on the body.

Altering intensity and or volume is by the far the most certain way to relive or increase stress on the CNS.

ChrisROCK

well mudge can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think he was referring to simply "changing a movement" every 3 weeks. I think the change he's referring to is probably more about rep range, poundage and movements, as well.

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ChrisROCK

It's not the specific rep range that taxes the CNS, it's training to the point of failure repeatedly, that does!

Training to failure is a well-debated subject. Some training programs like HST don't advocate training to failure AT ALL....EVER....and guys make gains from those programs.

Maximus:
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity."

http://kandeecup.tripod.com/gif

"Success does not necessarily mean advancement;... it refers to the accomplishment or sense of achievement one obtains from trying one's best... I...enjoy the process of become stronger and more muscular."

Akkers

CNS get smashed mainly when your lifting ridiculously heavy weight for ridiculously low reps. It works its ass off to recruit all the muscles required for the lift and synchronise the explosive power needed to lift. I've trained to failure my whole life and I swear by it.

Mudge

If you are staying above 5 reps there is nothing to worry about except boredom.

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CowPimp

You have some misconceptions about how the central nervous system works I think. You can most certainly relieve stress on your central nervous system by simply changing the movement. It is one of the main principles of Westside. That's how you get away with doing singles on 2 different extremely taxing exercises each week, you constantly change the movements.

For the upper body, you might do flat bench press one week, lockouts the next week, decline presses the next week, etc. For the lower body you might do deadlifts one week, squats the next week, and good mornings the following week. These are just examples, but it is one way to prevent those highly trained atheletes from overtraining their central nervous systems.

Different movements require different stimulation of the central nervous system because the intermuscular and motor coordination involved is different. Even slight changes to a movement can make a big difference. For example, squatting with a bar sitting on your traps, and squatting with a bar sitting on your rear delts is completely different. Your center of gravity is completely changed, and even the muscles that are emphasized are changed quite drastically.

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pumpthatiron

im very confused on what you guys mean by changing the movement. like if i do 3 reps heavy ass weight on flat bench 2 weeks in a row, your saying i shouldn't do flat bench at all the third week?

HardTrainer

Depends which group of cronies that make up these routine templates you want to believe.

pumpthatiron

i'll believe what mudge says. So mudge, what's it gonna be?

FishOrCutBait

F westside, p-side all the way, son.

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Eat to live.

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TJ Cline

Thats a good rule of thumb.....Mudge knows his stuff and has the physique to back it up....
I just cant take advise from some of these guys here benching 225 and have 14 or 15 inch arms...

Do what mudge says and you'll be alright

pumpthatiron

still waiting on mudge....

pumpthatiron

anyone wanna say something?

camarosuper6

sure

I always train to failure, never anything else. I have had zero problems with overtraining the CNS because I keep volume low, I change my routine every 4 weeks, and I get plenty of rest and recourperation.

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Mudge

After 3 weeks is the going "rule." Like said above, this is what Westside follows. They also do speed work, however the problem on benching with speed work is natural inclination to decelerate the weight. So without throwing the weight into the air, some consider speed benching to be near worthless, because of expenditure decelerating the weight and you only effectively doing speed work for maybe 40% of the rep and the rest of it just beating up your elbow joints.

Someone posted a nice interview with the Westside BB founder, I'll see if I can find it.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

Mudge

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=45423 (L. Simmons (Mr. West-Side himself)Radio Interview)

Hopefully these are still active.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks