what do isolation exercises do?

IJ300 · 08-19-2005, 08:35 PM

If you want strong triceps you bench heavy, and if you want strong biceps you row heavy. So what's the point of doing a curl or tricpe extension

?

Vieope · 08-19-2005, 08:40 PM

Well they isolate with the whole intention of isolation for proper training.

SuperFlex · 08-19-2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IJ300

If you want strong triceps you bench heavy, and if you want strong biceps you row heavy. So what's the point of doing a curl or tricpe extension

?

Surely you jest... Yes you get indirect work from compound exercises but not nearly as effectively as with direct work. Tell you what... Do four sets of rows one day and four sets of heavy barbell curls another. Then come back and have a mod erase this thread...

Squaggleboggin · 08-19-2005, 09:00 PM

Actually my entire routine consists of compound movements. With strength goals, you find isolation movements to be a waste of time more than anything else.

Are you actually trying to tell me that the squat is not a good movement to work the quads directly because it's a compound movement? Surely you're the one who jests.

ST240 · 08-19-2005, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

Are you actually trying to tell me that the squat is not a good movement to work the quads directly because it's a compound movement? Surely you're the one who jests.

i dont think thats what he was trying to say... doing something like rows however, is not the best way to work your biceps directly.

SuperFlex · 08-19-2005, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

Actually my entire routine consists of compound movements. With strength goals, you find isolation movements to be a waste of time more than anything else.

Are you actually trying to tell me that the squat is not a good movement to work the quads directly because it's a compound movement? Surely you're the one who jests.

We're not talking about quads now are we youngster...aka beginner...

If you want huge quads you had better squat and squat until you can't squat no more. But if you want maximum size in your triceps, biceps, delts, forearms, etc... You had better work them just as hard and with direct work. Sure your smaller muscles groups can grow without direct work and will but NOT AS WELL... Listen to daddy before you question him because he has probably learned from experience! Good luck with your traning but if you want cannons you better load your guns!

SuperFlex · 08-19-2005, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST240

i dont think thats what he was trying to say... doing something like rows however, is not the best way to work your biceps directly.

Thank you for saying as I should have...

ihateschoolmt · 08-19-2005, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkc

But if you want maximum size in your triceps, biceps, delts, forearms, etc... You had better work them just as hard and with direct work.

He trains for strength. He doesn't want maximium size. So he doesn't really need direct work.

SuperFlex · 08-19-2005, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihateschoolmt

He trains for strength. He doesn't want maximium size. So he doesn't really need direct work.

That would be correct...

But that's not what we were discussing...

IJ300 · 08-19-2005, 09:20 PM

If you want huge quads you had better squat and squat until you can't squat no more. But if you want maximum size in your triceps, biceps, delts, forearms, etc... You had better work them just as hard and with direct work. Sure your smaller muscles groups can grow without direct work and will but NOT AS WELL... Listen to daddy before you question him because he has probably learned from experience! Good luck with your traning but if you want cannons you better load your guns![/quote]

I thought biceps aren't going to grow out of proportion to the rest of your muscles. "You can't shoot a cannon from a canoe."

Squaggleboggin · 08-19-2005, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkc

Surely you jest... Yes you get indirect work from compound exercises but not nearly as effectively as with direct work. Tell you what... Do four sets of rows one day and four sets of heavy barbell curls another. Then come back and have a mod erase this thread...

You said compound exercises in general. This includes squats, so that is what you were talking about.

Actually, P-funk uses no direct work for his biceps either. You can give your little "I'm older and therefore wiser" speech to him too.

Like I said, I have strength goals. You didn't read what I said very carefully now, did you?

Bkc, ihateschoolmt is correct. I am talking about that and I said that in my post. If you didn't read it carefully, that's your problem; he is still correct.

ihateschoolmt · 08-19-2005, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkc

That would be correct...

But that's not what we were discussing...

The thread starter said what's the point of isolationto get stronger, not bigger. Squagg said there is no point. You said you need isolation to get bigger. That wasn't what they were talking about.

SuperFlex · 08-19-2005, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IJ300

If you want huge quads you had better squat and squat until you can't squat no more. But if you want maximum size in your triceps, biceps, delts, forearms, etc... You had better work them just as hard and with direct work. Sure your smaller muscles groups can grow without direct work and will but NOT AS WELL... Listen to daddy before you question him because he has probably learned from experience! Good luck with your traning but if you want cannons you better load your guns!

I thought biceps aren't going to grow out of proportion to the rest of your muscles. "You can't shoot a cannon from a caone."

... That much is certainly right! I never said you could however. Only that isolation exercises certainly serve their purpose...

SuperFlex · 08-19-2005, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihateschoolmt

The thread starter said what's the point of isolationto get stronger, not bigger. Squagg said there is no point. You said you need isolation to get bigger. That wasn't what they were talking about.

Same thing applies... Maybe even more so.

ihateschoolmt · 08-19-2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkc

Same thing applies... Maybe even more so.

Are you saying you need isolation to get stronger? The pro level olympic lifters might have something to say about that.

Squaggleboggin · 08-19-2005, 09:28 PM

I disagree. You do not need ANY isolation movements to see strength increases, unless you're measuring those increases in the isolation movements, which is not a very good test of athleticism. Point: Isolation is not necessary to develop strong muscles and movements.

Cold Iron · 08-19-2005, 09:31 PM

Well, there's no such thing as isolating a muscle anyways

Squaggleboggin · 08-19-2005, 09:32 PM

Actually, there is. Have you read the post about the machine that sends electrical impulses to a muscle? It only hits one muscle so that would pretty much isolate it.

SuperFlex · 08-19-2005, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

You said compound exercises in general. This includes squats, so that is what you were talking about.

Actually, P-funk uses no direct work for his biceps either. You can give your little "I'm older and therefore wiser" speech to him too.

Like I said, I have strength goals. You didn't read what I said very carefully now, did you?

Bkc, ihateschoolmt is correct. I am talking about that and I said that in my post. If you didn't read it carefully, that's your problem; he is still correct.

Surely you jest... Yes you get indirect work from compound exercises but not nearly as effectively as with direct work. Tell you what... Do four sets of rows one day and four sets of heavy barbell curls another. Then come back and have a mod erase this thread.

No kid...

He asked what the point of iso's were. For MOST bodyparts they will without question aid in size AND strength! Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. You can practice three pointers all day long but they aren't going to help your free throws a whole lot to be honest... My man used biceps as his chosen muscles group. Not squats. If you want size and strength in your bi's then work biceps. AGAIN indirect work will yield gains but not as well as direct and indirect work. For size and/or strength...

SuperFlex · 08-19-2005, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihateschoolmt

Are you saying you need isolation to get stronger? The pro level olympic lifters might have something to say about that.

For some muscle groups...ABSOLUTELY!!!

They work a certain lift! I promise you this... If they went into a curl off (biceps) with someone who trained their biceps hard they would get crushed!

SuperFlex · 08-19-2005, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

I disagree. You do not need ANY isolation movements to see strength increases, unless you're measuring those increases in the isolation movements, which is not a very good test of athleticism. Point: Isolation is not necessary to develop strong muscles and movements.

Yes it is... Not in the compound lifts so much but in that target muscle group and in that movement yes it is... My point..............

Go ahead and train as you like and people will always have their views but I'm always right!

SuperFlex · 08-19-2005, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IJ300

If you want strong triceps you bench heavy, and if you want strong biceps you row heavy. So what's the point of doing a curl or tricpe extension

?

OK to answer your question...

FOR SIZE IN CERTAIN MUSCLE GROUPS AS WELL AS STRENGTH IN MOST MOVEMENTS!

Cold Iron · 08-19-2005, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

Actually, there is. Have you read the post about the machine that sends electrical impulses to a muscle? It only hits one muscle so that would pretty much isolate it.

What that stupid ECG muscle test thingy?

I repeat, you cannot isolate a muscle with a particular movement

SuperFlex · 08-19-2005, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cold Iron

What that stupid ECG muscle test thingy?

I repeat, you cannot isolate a muscle with a particular movement

It was their bedtime...

j/p fellas... But daddy is right!

Squaggleboggin · 08-19-2005, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cold Iron

What that stupid ECG muscle test thingy?

I repeat, you cannot isolate a muscle with a particular movement

No. I was referring to the post made by someone who wanted to buy one of the machines. All it does is send the electrical impulse to the muscle, causing it to move; it tricks it into thinking your brain sent the impulse. Voila, that's the only muscle that moved and it was isolated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkc

Yes it is... Not in the compound lifts so much but in that target muscle group and in that movement yes it is... My point..............

I said that isolation movements are not necessary to improve strength. You said they are. Explain to me how I increased my deadlift by over 150 pounds in one year without isolation exercises.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkc

For some muscle groups...ABSOLUTELY!!!

They work a certain lift! I promise you this... If they went into a curl off (biceps) with someone who trained their biceps hard they would get crushed!

Wow, a curl off! That's a GREAT test of athleticism! Surely the guy who wins is the best athlete in the whole wide world!!!

Isolation exercises are NOT necessary for ANY muscle group. If it can't be worked with a compound exercise of some sort, it either can't be worked at all or isn't worth working.

Since you are saying that isolation is NECESSARY, that means that no one can EVER make ANY gains using compound movements. Please explain this.

ihateschoolmt · 08-19-2005, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkc

For some muscle groups...ABSOLUTELY!!!

They work a certain lift! I promise you this... If they went into a curl off (biceps) with someone who trained their biceps hard they would get crushed!

Oh, I see what you mean now. I was thinking in terms of powerlifting, as in competition. You wouldn't need isolation in the compound lifts (ones powerlifters/ weightlifters compete with) get stronger in those lifts. I never really thought of a powerlifter wanting to increase bicep strength.

08-19-2005, 08:35 PM	#1
IJ300 The world is mine Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Your moms bedroom Posts: 247 Photos: 18	what do isolation exercises do? If you want strong triceps you bench heavy, and if you want strong biceps you row heavy. So what's the point of doing a curl or tricpe extension ?
	"I analyze life through a blind man's eyes to see better." K-rino

08-19-2005, 08:40 PM	#2
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,857 Photos: 10	Well they isolate with the whole intention of isolation for proper training.
	FURtherness

08-19-2005, 09:00 PM	#4
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Actually my entire routine consists of compound movements. With strength goals, you find isolation movements to be a waste of time more than anything else. Are you actually trying to tell me that the squat is not a good movement to work the quads directly because it's a compound movement? Surely you're the one who jests.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

08-19-2005, 09:20 PM	#10
IJ300 The world is mine Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Your moms bedroom Posts: 247 Photos: 18	If you want huge quads you had better squat and squat until you can't squat no more. But if you want maximum size in your triceps, biceps, delts, forearms, etc... You had better work them just as hard and with direct work. Sure your smaller muscles groups can grow without direct work and will but NOT AS WELL... Listen to daddy before you question him because he has probably learned from experience! Good luck with your traning but if you want cannons you better load your guns![/quote] I thought biceps aren't going to grow out of proportion to the rest of your muscles. "You can't shoot a cannon from a canoe."
	"I analyze life through a blind man's eyes to see better." K-rino

08-19-2005, 09:28 PM	#16
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	I disagree. You do not need ANY isolation movements to see strength increases, unless you're measuring those increases in the isolation movements, which is not a very good test of athleticism. Point: Isolation is not necessary to develop strong muscles and movements.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

08-19-2005, 09:31 PM	#17
Cold Iron High $ociety Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: ONtario Posts: 1,615	Well, there's no such thing as isolating a muscle anyways

08-19-2005, 09:32 PM	#18
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Actually, there is. Have you read the post about the machine that sends electrical impulses to a muscle? It only hits one muscle so that would pretty much isolate it.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal