terminology help...

TheSupremeBeing · 08-16-2001, 12:00 PM

Haha...

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

**MtnBikerChk** · 08-16-2001, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:
Please gimme a link to this thread, that made no sense at all.

Ok, but PLAY NICE!!
http://www.ridemonkey.com/showthread...=&threadid=388

**MtnBikerChk** · 08-16-2001, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MtnBikerChick:
some one posted this on my biking board

"I don't mean that you have to BE fat to make muscle, but the body needs the extra mass to create muscle from. If one is skinny now, you must eat like a machine to get enough "fat" to be transformed to muscle. Fat to muscle can happen constantly, so that you never look like a barge."

Now I know fat does not turn into muscle, so please help me interpret what he is saying so I can straighten him out!

This is the link for this quote http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...&threadid=2875

it is the second board/quote that I have "an interest" in.

TheSupremeBeing · 08-16-2001, 12:07 PM

Well i skimmed the thread, and while so of his facts are incorrect his basic idea is correct.

The body does burn muscle for energy.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

TheSupremeBeing · 08-16-2001, 12:09 PM

OK I missed the second link....one sec

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

**MtnBikerChk** · 08-16-2001, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:
The body does burn muscle for energy.

'esplain pleze.

TheSupremeBeing · 08-16-2001, 12:22 PM

I replied to that thread.

Muscle is used as energy via gluconeogenesis, which is simply the conversion of protein (muscle) to glucose (carbs).

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

**MtnBikerChk** · 08-16-2001, 12:30 PM

When do proteins turn into carbs?

btw, nice reply - not harsh.

TheSupremeBeing · 08-16-2001, 12:41 PM

Well that depends, but dietary protein is converted to carbs when repair requirements are met and calorie levels are below maintenance (or too little carbs).

Muscle is converted to energy during various times under various circumstances, but some key times are when liver glucose is depleted and you're not in ketosis, when anaerobic activity is performed w/o glucose, when cardio is performed after a fast (like in the morning b4 breakfast), etc..

Anytime muscle is lost it has been converted to carbs and used as energy.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Scotty the Body · 08-16-2001, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:
Well that depends, but dietary protein is converted to carbs when repair requirements are met and calorie levels are below maintenance (or too little carbs).

Muscle is converted to energy during various times under various circumstances, when cardio is performed after a fast (like in the morning b4 breakfast), etc..

Anytime muscle is lost it has been converted to carbs and used as energy.

I would only agree to that if one were to preform there cardio at higher than 70% of there maximum heart rate for an extended period of time.
Doing so, the body will use Muscle as a sorce of energy as its easier and a better source to convert than fat.

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Just another day in the gutter

**MtnBikerChk** · 08-16-2001, 11:03 PM

some one posted this on my biking board

"I don't mean that you have to BE fat to make muscle, but the body needs the extra mass to create muscle from. If one is skinny now, you must eat like a machine to get enough "fat" to be transformed to muscle. Fat to muscle can happen constantly, so that you never look like a barge."

Now I know fat does not turn into muscle, so please help me interpret what he is saying so I can straighten him out!

TheSupremeBeing · 08-16-2001, 11:13 PM

He is saying a bunch of stupid garbage, basically.

BTW, what;s the link, I'll straighten him out for ya

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

<FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 1 time by TheSupremeBeing on 08-16-2001 at 12:14 PM]</font>

**MtnBikerChk** · 08-16-2001, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:
He is saying a bunch of stupid garbage, basically.

BTW, what;s the link, I'll straighten him out for ya

Gee, I'd love to tell ya, but I don't want them to hate me just yet

**I Are Baboon** · 08-16-2001, 11:23 PM

Why waste your time and energy arguing with someone who knows so little? Seems like a waste of effort to me.

**MtnBikerChk** · 08-16-2001, 11:28 PM

Not arguing, but I don't want the person who posted the question to go off eating m&m's and ice cream (like I already told him not to).

TheSupremeBeing · 08-16-2001, 11:31 PM

OK, what he is saying that the fat creates "room" for the muscle to grow. This is entirely stupid because muscle is seperate from fat by a connective sheath called the epymysium or fascia. Fat is located outside of this sheath, making the two entirely seperate.

Tell him that, and get back to me with what he says.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

**MtnBikerChk** · 08-16-2001, 11:49 PM

Now I've got another guy saying:

Here's how it works. Under stress your body uses up stored calories from recent meals first. After about 45 minutes of aerobic work (see above) you're body begins to burn fat stores. The problem is that muscle is eaiser to metabolize than fat and can be done so more quickly, and with less pull on water stores (digestion and metabolism uses A LOT of water.) Things like gel shots give your body about 100 easy to digest and metabolize calories. This reduces the body's tendency to burn muscle for energy. Since the fuel is in a gel or gu form, it doesn't require large quantities of water and blood to digest and move the energy into your body.
Second, these foods are engineered to help replace glycogen which is key for muscle activity. Using complex carbohydrates and the right ingredients, your muscles get what they need to recover quickly (even while you're still exercising. This is called "active recovery.) Its even possible to "map" caloric requirements for a ride.

HUH? You burn muscle for energy?? lol

TheSupremeBeing · 08-16-2001, 11:51 PM

Please gimme a link to this thread, that made no sense at all.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

**I Are Baboon** · 08-16-2001, 11:54 PM

I think TSB is going to explode!

Mace · 08-25-2001, 10:54 AM

Adipose is adipose, and protein is protein.

Just tell this guy that Fat only turns into muscle on info-mercials...

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Never get pulled over with a baggie of whey protein on the passenger seat...

<FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 1 time by Mace on 08-25-2001 at 01:16 PM]</font>

**Prince** · 08-25-2001, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mace:
Just tell this guy that Fat only turns into muscle on info-mercials...

The myth of muscle turning into fat will stay around just like "spot reduction"!

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

cytrix · 08-25-2001, 05:40 PM

muscle (=protein) will be burned for energy while exercising ANAEROBICALLY (as in weighttraining), when glycogen stores are depleted, because it is easier and quicker to make glucose from protein than from fat. if you are exercising aerobically, the body will use fat for fuel instead though.

TheSupremeBeing · 08-25-2001, 06:45 PM

If the liver is depleted of glucose it will break down muscle to get glucose to saturate itself....regardless of which kind if any activity you are doing.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

cytrix · 08-26-2001, 07:44 AM

TSB,

1.but doesn't the liver ALWAYS do that after depletion of it's glycogen? i mean even at nite it does, don't it, which is why it's good to eat something before bed (as you said too in another topic recently).

2.another question: why doesn't this happen when you are in ketosis? they say that you can only get into ketosis if your liver glycogen is depleted, and that the fastest way to kick yourself out of ketosis therefore is to eat fructose.

3.finally: is fructose only the fastest way to replenish liver glycogen, but glucose does the job too, just slower, or what's the deal?

i know, i'm asking a lot of questions at once

TheSupremeBeing · 08-26-2001, 09:41 AM

1. Yes, but moreso when activity is performed.

2. Because of the high fat intake and the production of ketones.

3. Yes, fructose is fastest...pure fructose would be the fastest (fruit has some glucose, depending on the fruit more or less...I think watermelon has the most glucose and plums have the most fructose but don't quote me on it) but fruit is the next best.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-16-2001, 11:03 PM	#11
MtnBikerChk Stealth Moderator Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Dead last Posts: 1,456	terminology help... some one posted this on my biking board "I don't mean that you have to BE fat to make muscle, but the body needs the extra mass to create muscle from. If one is skinny now, you must eat like a machine to get enough "fat" to be transformed to muscle. Fat to muscle can happen constantly, so that you never look like a barge." Now I know fat does not turn into muscle, so please help me interpret what he is saying so I can straighten him out!

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08-16-2001, 12:00 PM	#1
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Haha... ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-16-2001, 12:07 PM	#4
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Well i skimmed the thread, and while so of his facts are incorrect his basic idea is correct. The body does burn muscle for energy. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-16-2001, 12:09 PM	#5
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	OK I missed the second link....one sec ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-16-2001, 12:22 PM	#7
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	I replied to that thread. Muscle is used as energy via gluconeogenesis, which is simply the conversion of protein (muscle) to glucose (carbs). ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-16-2001, 12:30 PM	#8
MtnBikerChk Stealth Moderator Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Dead last Posts: 1,456	When do proteins turn into carbs? btw, nice reply - not harsh.

08-16-2001, 12:41 PM	#9
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Well that depends, but dietary protein is converted to carbs when repair requirements are met and calorie levels are below maintenance (or too little carbs). Muscle is converted to energy during various times under various circumstances, but some key times are when liver glucose is depleted and you're not in ketosis, when anaerobic activity is performed w/o glucose, when cardio is performed after a fast (like in the morning b4 breakfast), etc.. Anytime muscle is lost it has been converted to carbs and used as energy. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-16-2001, 11:13 PM	#12
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	He is saying a bunch of stupid garbage, basically. BTW, what;s the link, I'll straighten him out for ya ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers. <FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 1 time by TheSupremeBeing on 08-16-2001 at 12:14 PM]</font>

08-16-2001, 11:23 PM	#14
I Are Baboon pedal pedal pedal Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Beerville Posts: 10,998 Photos: 10	Why waste your time and energy arguing with someone who knows so little? Seems like a waste of effort to me.

08-16-2001, 11:28 PM	#15
MtnBikerChk Stealth Moderator Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Dead last Posts: 1,456	Not arguing, but I don't want the person who posted the question to go off eating m&m's and ice cream (like I already told him not to).

08-16-2001, 11:31 PM	#16
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	OK, what he is saying that the fat creates "room" for the muscle to grow. This is entirely stupid because muscle is seperate from fat by a connective sheath called the epymysium or fascia. Fat is located outside of this sheath, making the two entirely seperate. Tell him that, and get back to me with what he says. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-16-2001, 11:49 PM	#17
MtnBikerChk Stealth Moderator Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Dead last Posts: 1,456	Now I've got another guy saying: Here's how it works. Under stress your body uses up stored calories from recent meals first. After about 45 minutes of aerobic work (see above) you're body begins to burn fat stores. The problem is that muscle is eaiser to metabolize than fat and can be done so more quickly, and with less pull on water stores (digestion and metabolism uses A LOT of water.) Things like gel shots give your body about 100 easy to digest and metabolize calories. This reduces the body's tendency to burn muscle for energy. Since the fuel is in a gel or gu form, it doesn't require large quantities of water and blood to digest and move the energy into your body. Second, these foods are engineered to help replace glycogen which is key for muscle activity. Using complex carbohydrates and the right ingredients, your muscles get what they need to recover quickly (even while you're still exercising. This is called "active recovery.) Its even possible to "map" caloric requirements for a ride. HUH? You burn muscle for energy?? lol

08-16-2001, 11:51 PM	#18
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Please gimme a link to this thread, that made no sense at all. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-16-2001, 11:54 PM	#19
I Are Baboon pedal pedal pedal Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Beerville Posts: 10,998 Photos: 10	I think TSB is going to explode!

08-25-2001, 10:54 AM	#20
Mace Hungry. Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Rochester, NY USA Posts: 65	Adipose is adipose, and protein is protein. Just tell this guy that Fat only turns into muscle on info-mercials... ------------------ Never get pulled over with a baggie of whey protein on the passenger seat... <FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 1 time by Mace on 08-25-2001 at 01:16 PM]</font>

08-25-2001, 05:40 PM	#22
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	muscle (=protein) will be burned for energy while exercising ANAEROBICALLY (as in weighttraining), when glycogen stores are depleted, because it is easier and quicker to make glucose from protein than from fat. if you are exercising aerobically, the body will use fat for fuel instead though.

08-25-2001, 06:45 PM	#23
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	If the liver is depleted of glucose it will break down muscle to get glucose to saturate itself....regardless of which kind if any activity you are doing. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-26-2001, 07:44 AM	#24
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	TSB, 1.but doesn't the liver ALWAYS do that after depletion of it's glycogen? i mean even at nite it does, don't it, which is why it's good to eat something before bed (as you said too in another topic recently). 2.another question: why doesn't this happen when you are in ketosis? they say that you can only get into ketosis if your liver glycogen is depleted, and that the fastest way to kick yourself out of ketosis therefore is to eat fructose. 3.finally: is fructose only the fastest way to replenish liver glycogen, but glucose does the job too, just slower, or what's the deal? i know, i'm asking a lot of questions at once

08-26-2001, 09:41 AM	#25
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	1. Yes, but moreso when activity is performed. 2. Because of the high fat intake and the production of ketones. 3. Yes, fructose is fastest...pure fructose would be the fastest (fruit has some glucose, depending on the fruit more or less...I think watermelon has the most glucose and plums have the most fructose but don't quote me on it) but fruit is the next best. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.