Thread: Shoulders - building mass.

i found real success in giving delts extra rest and using arnold presses and upright rows!

Military presses, upright rows, front, side and rear lateral rasies will get the job done.

Originally Posted by lord

Lo all,

The most difficult upper body muscle for me to build are my shoulders. I usually do shoulder press with barbells and also side raises (is that what they're called?)

The problem I have is that both shoulders 'click' when my arms are parallel to the ground in both exercises. I can work round this but it feels awkward. My shoulders also fatigue very quickly in the same way that calves and abs do. Any tips or other ways of training that you can think of? I'm trying to add mass at the moment.

Thanks.

I know what you mean when you say your shoulders click, mine do that to, its like the sound your knuckles make when they crack but it does it on every rep. I don't expirience pain from it so i just ignore it.

If you are experiencing pain, then you may want to consider upright rows.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

If you are experiencing pain, then you may want to consider upright rows.

There's no pain, it just feels as if a huge rubber band is being flicked inside my shoulder when I lift.

Are there any links to pictures or guides to the methods listed above because i'm not familiar with them all.

Thanks.

Them clicking sounds you hear are your tendons making that noise. Hopefully you don't end up with a sholder injury like i did from heavy incl bench and Military presss. My left shoulder also make the clicking noise and the the cuff finally tore

Tough

Originally Posted by lord

There's no pain, it just feels as if a huge rubber band is being flicked inside my shoulder when I lift.

Are there any links to pictures or guides to the methods listed above because i'm not familiar with them all.

Thanks.

when I started training for my first show last year, my trainer knew that my shoulders could gain size rather quickly by doing only one thing first:
At the very first exercise, side laterals put a TON of meat on my shoulders. Even though you cant really go very heavy, it is one of the the most amazing transformations my delts went through to attain my X frame. When I stand in a shadow, I notice that the eyes draw right to the center of my shoulders.

I truly believe that this exercise is the base (for the side delts) that give the much wanted wide shoulders.

any tips on performing the lateral raises, people say take traps out of the movement what would you advise?

Originally Posted by buildingup

any tips on performing the lateral raises, people say take traps out of the movement what would you advise?

crook your arms so that they resemble a small "L"

If you do side raises with your elbows locked, it puts a lot of workload on your traps. But if you relax your arm letting the elbow unlock, leaving a slight bent in your arm this targets the delts better. You can also use a little more weight this way.

thanks sam!

Originally Posted by Sam40

If you do side raises with your elbows locked, it puts a lot of workload on your traps. But if you relax your arm letting the elbow unlock, leaving a slight bent in your arm this targets the delts better. You can also use a little more weight this way.

i didnt say LOCK them I said so that they resemble a small "L". Or, you could lean on a post at a 30 degree angle and do sides like that.

All in all, no matter what, your traps are going to be affected regardless on how perfect your form is. Physiologically speaking, its almost impossible to NOT include the traps in a movement like that.

I did them for years the wrong way, because most illustrations show locked elbows. Until I learned better. Dumbbell flys are the same way, leaving your arm unlocked, puts more stress on the pecs.

pictures showing correct form would be beneficial!

Originally Posted by buildingup

any tips on performing the lateral raises, people say take traps out of the movement what would you advise?

http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/sidelateral.html

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...eralRaise.html

There you go!

T. O. M.

You have to lean just slightly forward to do the second example, this increases the ROM, and hits the back of the delts a little more + the upper part of your back. Try one you will see.

Thanks for all the replies, I think I will try to use side lat raises for now with a slightly bent arm, I did a few sets yesterday and the clicking seems to go away when I do it like that.

Thanks

Originally Posted by buildingup

any tips on performing the lateral raises, people say take traps out of the movement what would you advise?

To do a lateral raise (otherwise known as the shoulder extension) correctly, firstly do a lat spread pose with the dumbells in your hands then lower the dumbells in direction to your Serratus (side abs) for the negative portion of the movement. Raise the dumbells parallel to the ground for another rep.

The most important thing is to keep the elbows bent (most people do lateral raise with straight arms -this is WRONG).

Mentioned above is the correct way to do a lateral raise/shoulder extension since doing this correctly i have a greater depth to my shoulders and appear broader.


Sorry it is hard to describe.

Originally Posted by MuscleM4n

To do a lateral raise (otherwise known as the shoulder extension) correctly, firstly do a lat spread pose with the dumbells in your hands then lower the dumbells in direction to your Serratus (side abs) for the negative portion of the movement. Raise the dumbells parallel to the ground for another rep.

The most important thing is to keep the elbows bent (most people do lateral raise with straight arms -this is WRONG).

Mentioned above is the correct way to do a lateral raise/shoulder extension since doing this correctly i have a greater depth to my shoulders and appear broader.


Sorry it is hard to describe.

how the hell is it wrong to do them with straight arms?? It is harder for damn sure!! The force arm is increased when your arm is straigh placing a greater amount of torque on the shoulder and increase the force inches of the weight being lifted so a 20lb lateral raise with straight arms is much heavier than 20lbs in reality but with bent arms it is much less.

You can concentrate more directly on your medials delts with bent arms

I think you can perform raises in many angles, and should do so...

Why limit yourself to straight or bent or whatever...

Sometimes I go heavy and do the old... "Pour the water out of the pitcher",
which ends up looking similar to a funky DB upright row

But straight is harder, because you are effectively decreasing the mechanical
advantage your delts have to move the weight

With delts you must not focus on the poundage rather on the feeling of the movement.

The reason for this - using too much weight will utilise your whole shoulder. Using less weight with correct technique you can focus on each delt to effect.

Originally Posted by MuscleM4n

With delts you must not focus on the poundage rather on the feeling of the movement.

The reason for this - using too much weight will utilise your whole shoulder. Using less weight with correct technique you can focus on each delt to effect.

You can concentrate more directly on your medials delts with bent arms

Where do you get that from?? PLease explain how you can focus more on the side delt with bent arms??

Using to much weight uses your whole shoulder??

Can I have your subscription to flex magazine? I ran out of toilet paper.

Don't take my comments literally

Their is truth in what I said.

For example your medial delts will grow better from lighter weights rather than heavier becuase you can concentrate more on the contraction of the medial.

Using heavier weight you will be swinging more and other muscles will come much more in to play - which you don't want.



haha yeah FLEX sucks - used to be subsribed but now just buy it now and then for news updates about Professional bodybuilding. The training advice in FLEX is stupid.

muscleman is right with the lighter weight for medial delts! and with a particularly large area like the shoulders involving the traps as well it is advisable like any other large body part to have a large weight!

I have been lifting for years and I have never felt comfortable with lateral raises, I always feel like I'm doing wrong.

Originally Posted by lord

Thanks for all the replies, I think I will try to use side lat raises for now with a slightly bent arm, I did a few sets yesterday and the clicking seems to go away when I do it like that.

Thanks

Just try it in the beginning of the workout and use the right weight. Dont try to be a wacko and use overly heavy weight. It'll mess you up pretty badly. I speak from experience.

Good Luck!

Using too much weight with side delt raises tends to make one slightly swing the weight, instead of lifting it. I have also seen people let hex bells slap together at the bottom of the movement. This adds some kinetic energy to the lift, and you see it commonly done with large weights.

Either way it robs the movement, of a great deal of it's effectiveness.