Thread: Tricep - Outer Head !!

you can't isolate parts of a muscle. read the stickies on top of this section, there is one about upper/lower chest isolation and has a great post from a member of another forum about the issue.

Originally Posted by Yanick

you can't isolate parts of a muscle. read the stickies on top of this section, there is one about upper/lower chest isolation and has a great post from a member of another forum about the issue.

Certain exercises target certain parts of a muscle more. True, in theory you cannnot totally isolate the outer head, but there have got to be exercises out there that target it.

no there isnt

disregard the post, i fucked it up

yup long head short head.

So there are no exercises that will recruit more work from the outer head?

Originally Posted by MCPaulyB

So there are no exercises that will recruit more work from the outer head?

tricep pushdowns with a wider grip (don't push down with your chest)...bench press with the palms facing your head (underhand grip)

good luck

Take the incline bench for example, it dosnt recruit more upper pec muscle at all, your whole muscle contracts as a whole or it donst contract at all, all the incline does is switch the balance to place more stress on the delt and less on the pec (in simplisty its inbetween a seated shoulder press and a flat bench press)

Thats the only thing you can hope for when changing grip placements, angles etc, i.e. the hammer curl places more stress on the forearm and less on the bicep... it dosnt hit the bicep any different!

The same with tricep push downs and reverse press downs, all the reverse one does is give you fingers/forearm muscle extra work as you have to grip it or it will pull out of your hands, it dosnt contract the tricep in a different way.

Originally Posted by turbine5

bench press with the palms facing your head (underhand grip)

good luck

Originally Posted by MCPaulyB

get set like a regular bench press, but instead of using an overhand grip like normal, reverse your grip....grip the bar underhand like a chinup.....try it with lower weight than you would use on a reguar bench press...its a little awkward....

Gotcha now...

Originally Posted by HardTrainer

Take the incline bench for example, it dosnt recruit more upper pec muscle at all, your whole muscle contracts as a whole or it donst contract at all, all the incline does is switch the balance to place more stress on the delt and less on the pec (in simplisty its inbetween a seated shoulder press and a flat bench press)

Thats the only thing you can hope for when changing grip placements, angles etc, i.e. the hammer curl places more stress on the forearm and less on the bicep... it dosnt hit the bicep any different!

The same with tricep push downs and reverse press downs, all the reverse one does is give you fingers/forearm muscle extra work as you have to grip it or it will pull out of your hands, it dosnt contract the tricep in a different way.

I have to disagree with that.......
Now lets not argue this for 50 posts just do this and then tell me I'm wrong.
Next chest workout do something different....do incline DB press 6 sets of 6-10 reps.
then a few incline flys if you want and thats it......now is your chest sore at the top , middle or bottom?????

Then next workout do the same except decline db press.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

I have to disagree with that.......
Now lets not argue this for 50 posts just do this and then tell me I'm wrong.
Next chest workout do something different....do incline DB press 6 sets of 6-10 reps.
then a few incline flys if you want and thats it......now is your chest sore at the top , middle or bottom?????

Then next workout do the same except decline db press.

The gym I go to has many people who are starting to weight lift, but do not really take it seriously or know how to do it properly. A lot of these guys do tons of decline bench...I think because its easier than flat? I don't know....but if you look at these guys, you can see that it is possible to work upper/lower pecs at different intensities depending on angle because they look like they are developing breasts....just my two cents anyways...

you definately can emphasize one head over the other kids.
it has to do with the position of your humerus relative to your torso.
no you cant 'isolate' any one of them, but you can definately change how the workload is distrubuted throughout the three heads.

to work the lateral head best you want to keep your upper arm down at your side or close to it.
press downs mostly, although CGBP hammers the medial head hard too.

Originally Posted by TheCurse

you definately can emphasize one head over the other kids.
it has to do with the position of your humerus relative to your torso.
no you cant 'isolate' any one of them, but you can definately change how the workload is distrubuted throughout the three heads.

you have your opinion, we have our science

i just don't see how you can say the position of the humerus relative to the torso (thats an action of the shoulder joint) will effect the recruitment of the triceps (thats an action of the elbow joint).

shoulders flexed, like in overhead DB extension for example - triceps are still extending the arm

shoulders extended, like in a press down for example - triceps are still extending the arm

your body doesn't say, 'oh shit my shoulders are flexed i need more medial tricep work. all your triceps extend your elbow, no way around it.

however if you extend your elbow and your shoulder simultaneously, like in a pullover/laying tricep extension hybrid type exercise, the long head will assist in extending your shoulder, but once the elbow extension comes into play all of your triceps are working. its basic kinesiology guys, if you don't believe go buy a text book and look it up, i'm not making this shit up and its not something i read in FLEX.

I do cable pushdowns with a rope to hit my outer heads. Be sure to curl your hands outwards at the bottom of the reps to get a full extention and full contraction. I can definately feel it hitting the outer heads more. I don't care what the many previous posts have been saying...I know what I am feeling and know what progress I am seeing.

Originally Posted by Yanick

you have your opinion, we have our science

i just don't see how you can say the position of the humerus relative to the torso (thats an action of the shoulder joint) will effect the recruitment of the triceps (thats an action of the elbow joint).

shoulders flexed, like in overhead DB extension for example - triceps are still extending the arm

shoulders extended, like in a press down for example - triceps are still extending the arm

your body doesn't say, 'oh shit my shoulders are flexed i need more medial tricep work. all your triceps extend your elbow, no way around it.

however if you extend your elbow and your shoulder simultaneously, like in a pullover/laying tricep extension hybrid type exercise, the long head will assist in extending your shoulder, but once the elbow extension comes into play all of your triceps are working. its basic kinesiology guys, if you don't believe go buy a text book and look it up, i'm not making this shit up and its not something i read in FLEX.

the long head of the triceps is actually attached to the scapula braintrust, while the other two start on the humerus. elevating your arm puts the long head on a stretch, eliciting a stronger contraction. how many anatomy classes you taken? ive taken several. ive also developed the long head of my triceps to a far greater extent than most people using my findings.

the proof is in the results. lets see your triceps yanick. oh yea its just another internet shit talker.

Originally Posted by TheCurse

the long head of the triceps is actually attached to the scapula braintrust, while the other two start on the humerus. elevating your arm puts the long head on a stretch, eliciting a stronger contraction. how many anatomy classes you taken? ive taken several. ive also developed the long head of my triceps to a far greater extent than most people using my findings.

the proof is in the results. lets see your triceps yanick. oh yea its just another internet shit talker.

looking at his arguments I don't think he is denying that the long head of the tricep is activated to a greater extent when your humerus goes into flexion.

i dont care P i still want to eat his children.

Originally Posted by TheCurse

i dont care P i still want to eat his children.

I hear children are great for the outer head of the tricep as well.

Everyone keeps using the old "I feel it in muscle/head ____ so it must be getting worked to a greater extent" jive to back up their statements concerning isolating parts of a muscle or heads of a muscle group that cannot be isolated from their brethren. For some reason I think science wins when that is the only counter-argument.

You see, there is this phenomenon called proprioception. Because certain heads of a muscle group, or even portions of a single muscle, are stretched to a different degree depending on the movement in question, the mind tends to create a reaction via the nervous system to make the lifter aware of that fact. That doesn't mean that the portion of the muscle or the head in question is under a greater amount of tension, will hypertrophy more, is suffering a greater amount of microtrauma, etc.

Originally Posted by TheCurse

the proof is in the results. lets see your triceps yanick. oh yea its just another internet shit talker.

I have to agree with this......science is great but I think it is more than incomplete when debating if inclines work the upper chest differanntly than declines, or triceps for that matter.

So I have to rely on both science ( and the tiny amout of research done on how specific exercises hit certain muscles and experiance.

Originally Posted by TheCurse

the long head of the triceps is actually attached to the scapula braintrust, while the other two start on the humerus. elevating your arm puts the long head on a stretch, eliciting a stronger contraction. how many anatomy classes you taken? ive taken several. ive also developed the long head of my triceps to a far greater extent than most people using my findings.

Originally Posted by Yanick

the exception of course must be mentioned. the long head of the tri's crosses both the elbow and shoulder joint and assists in shoulder extension so you can get a better contraction in the long head by bringing your elbow back more in stuff like kickbacks and similar movements. but that is still not targeting or isolating or w/e that specific head.

Originally Posted by TheCurse

the proof is in the results. lets see your triceps yanick. oh yea its just another internet shit talker.

not a bodybuilder so i'm not really impressive looking, just decently big still don't see how that would make me wrong and you right though. and no i'm not talking shit really, just trying to dispel myths, i'm not trying to change your mind but i'm trying to open others' minds as there are many newbies on here that will think they need to hit the triceps with 7 different exercises to make sure all the heads will be stimulated, i've been there so i know.

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

I do cable pushdowns with a rope to hit my outer heads. Be sure to curl your hands outwards at the bottom of the reps to get a full extention and full contraction. I can definately feel it hitting the outer heads more. I don't care what the many previous posts have been saying...I know what I am feeling and know what progress I am seeing.

I agree with this, and for you guys to come back and say your wrong because "science" says so, dont give me that shit.

I have a science degree, and I know all about experimental design, "proprioception", and expectancy theory....blah blah blah. BUT, I also know how much bullshit science there is out there so taking science out of the discussion....

now, Im not saying that you can isolate certain heads, but I do believe that you can focus on one. That is why I do cable pushdowns at the end of my tricep workout. it really hits the outer head, i KNOW IT DOES!

I want an outer head.

Originally Posted by P-funk

I want an outer head.

And I want to get some head!





Tough

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

And I want to get some head!





Tough

are you asking me or telling me?