heavy back work enough for biceps??

Rpn1984 · 09-01-2005, 05:13 PM

im considering not doing anymore direct bicep work would heavy back exercises be enough to fully develop my biceps?

bio-chem · 09-01-2005, 05:15 PM

buildingup · 09-01-2005, 05:16 PM

yes, i have big biceps and i dont do bicep work!

ihateschoolmt · 09-01-2005, 05:16 PM

Depends on what you are doing.

Rpn1984 · 09-01-2005, 05:17 PM

im doing rows and pulldowns right now

HardTrainer · 09-01-2005, 05:17 PM

Sam40 · 09-01-2005, 05:42 PM

I'll have to go with no!. You should be trying minimizing biceps involvement, with back work anyway.

**CowPimp** · 09-01-2005, 05:59 PM

Certainly. I was doing 1 set of curls every 10-12 days. I have done zero direct work in the past.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam40

I'll have to go with no!. You should be trying minimizing biceps involvement, with back work anyway.

Why?

Sam40 · 09-01-2005, 06:42 PM

If you rob from Peter to pay Paul, Peter looses. If you allow your biceps to work more than a minimum amount on back work, you rob your back. You should always concentrate on the muscles, primarily involved on any exercise.
(example) Taking a wider grip on the bar when doing rows, will involve the biceps less. A narrow grip involves the biceps so much, it might as well be a biceps exercise. Your defeat the whole purpose in back exercise that way. Pulling the bar to high up toward your chest involves the biceps beyond the intent. Pulling low toward the lower chest, and upper abdomen, involves the back more. Rolling your shoulders back, and downward, puts more stress on your lats, and less on the biceps. Ah-oh I forgot about the scientific boys, they won't see it this way.

Fashong · 09-01-2005, 06:57 PM

I do 5 sets of direct bicep work + back work

Du · 09-01-2005, 07:21 PM

IMO, you can build great bis just doing heavy back work. But like Sam40 basically said, dont compromise form, work your back on back day. The biceps are worked secondary and you should keep it that way.

So simply put - yes.

**CowPimp** · 09-01-2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam40

If you rob from Peter to pay Paul, Peter looses. If you allow your biceps to work more than a minimum amount on back work, you rob your back. You should always concentrate on the muscles, primarily involved on any exercise.

You have the wrong idea. If you give your biceps a more efficient line of pull, or somehow otherwise allow yourself to move more weight as a result of more efficient recruitment of the biceps, then you are just moving more weight in the end. You are not reducing the tension your back is placed under.

Quote:

(example) Taking a wider grip on the bar when doing rows, will involve the biceps less. A narrow grip involves the biceps so much, it might as well be a biceps exercise.

Your biceps are only "used less" because they move through a smaller range of motion and this now requires them to do less work. However, the tension placed on the muscle is probably still similar.

Also, depending on the width of the grip you use, you may not be able to retract your scapula, a function which is largely dependant on your lats, as comfortably and efficiently as you could with a different grip. In fact, I use a relatively close grip when I row. Rows never felt fully comfortable using a wide grip for me.

Quote:

Your defeat the whole purpose in back exercise that way. Pulling the bar to high up toward your chest involves the biceps beyond the intent. Pulling low toward the lower chest, and upper abdomen, involves the back more. Rolling your shoulders back, and downward, puts more stress on your lats, and less on the biceps. Ah-oh I forgot about the scientific boys, they won't see it this way.

In terms of the biceps, you are once again merely changing the range of motion. Elbow flexion is still involved. However, pulling to your chest also means that your arms are now perpendicular to your body. This moves away from scapular retraction and more toward transverse extension. Granted, both of these movements also use the other muscle in question, but are less efficient in the aforementioned movements.

Sam40 · 09-01-2005, 07:41 PM

No doubt heavy back work, will result in increased biceps size. As will all the muscles, heavy back works causes the body to produce more growth harmones. But if you wan't to maximise,you don't need to give up your biceps work.

ihateschoolmt · 09-01-2005, 07:50 PM

Today I did back, after I finished my back work out I tired to do DB curls. I can curl 40x10 if I don't do back first. Today I couldn't curl 30x1.

**CowPimp** · 09-01-2005, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam40

No doubt heavy back work, will result in increased biceps size. As will all the muscles, heavy back works causes the body to produce more growth harmones. But if you wan't to maximise,you don't need to give up your biceps work.

You don't have to. It is something to try though. Zero to almost no direct arm work seems to produce the best results for me.

Sam40 · 09-01-2005, 08:00 PM

There is no way to completely keep the biceps from taking part, in any pulling motion. But with proper form, you cam minimize the amount they are involved. but if you want to maximize your biceps, you should not give up your bicep work. Regardless!.

Don't do biceps on back day!.

Squaggleboggin · 09-01-2005, 08:07 PM

Different stroks for different folks. It depends almost entirely on your goals and how you respond as an individual. I was never into doing 50x50 for 10 exercises for my biceps, but I did used to work them directly to a point. Since having done away with that to focus on functional strength (the biceps have little to do with this), my biceps have still been growing, and only with indirect work. Once again, my goals were functional strength, so for someone who just wanted to add X inches to his/her arm, it might be different.

myCATpowerlifts · 09-01-2005, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam40

No doubt heavy back work, will result in increased biceps size. As will all the muscles, heavy back works causes the body to produce more growth harmones. But if you wan't to maximise,you don't need to give up your biceps work.

I fully agree...
You could apply this to triceps as well...Almost every chest exercise uses your triceps to a degree, so are you going to stop doing direct tricep work? Hell no.

ihateschoolmt · 09-01-2005, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myCATpowerlifts

, so are you going to stop doing direct tricep work? Hell no.

A lot of people don't do direct tricep work either.

Squaggleboggin · 09-01-2005, 08:42 PM

Yeah, but the fact that many people do or do not do something is not a valid argument; a lot of people don't do direct leg work, but it's still a stupid idea.

Fashong · 09-01-2005, 08:42 PM

I can probally curl 105 x 2 now

**Mudge** · 09-01-2005, 08:42 PM

For a powerlifter who does not give a hoot what his arms look like, yes they are enough.

Squaggleboggin · 09-01-2005, 08:43 PM

That's cool...

ihateschoolmt · 09-01-2005, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fashong

I can probally curl 105 x 2 now

?

ihateschoolmt · 09-01-2005, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

Yeah, but the fact that many people do or do not do something is not a valid argument; a lot of people don't do direct leg work, but it's still a stupid idea.

It's enough for some people to grow, like gopro. Average person probably need direct tricep work.

Fashong · 09-01-2005, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihateschoolmt

Today I did back, after I finished my back work out I tired to do DB curls. I can curl 40x10 if I don't do back first. Today I couldn't curl 30x1.

That is why I said that, I do back/biceps in one day, I do it every wednesday. I usually do back first because I like to save biceps because it is my favorite muscle to work.

Squaggleboggin · 09-01-2005, 08:47 PM

Good thing you do them last. You should be using your energy for the bigger/more important muscle(s) by doing them first; second should come everything else.

Fashong · 09-01-2005, 08:48 PM

!!! I like my biceps better then my back lol. My back is crappy expecially where I got sunburnt /cry

Squaggleboggin · 09-01-2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihateschoolmt

It's enough for some people to grow, like gopro. Average person probably need direct tricep work.

I was just referring to the fact that saying how many people do something isn't a good way to back up a claim.

09-01-2005, 05:13 PM	#1
Rpn1984 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 41	heavy back work enough for biceps?? im considering not doing anymore direct bicep work would heavy back exercises be enough to fully develop my biceps?
Rpn1984 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 41

09-01-2005, 05:16 PM	#3
buildingup Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,101	yes, i have big biceps and i dont do bicep work!
buildingup Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,101

09-01-2005, 05:17 PM	#5
Rpn1984 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 41	im doing rows and pulldowns right now
Rpn1984 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 41

09-01-2005, 05:17 PM	#6
HardTrainer Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 472	Yes
HardTrainer Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 472

09-01-2005, 07:21 PM	#11
Du Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,085 Photos: 5	IMO, you can build great bis just doing heavy back work. But like Sam40 basically said, dont compromise form, work your back on back day. The biceps are worked secondary and you should keep it that way. So simply put - yes.
	My IronMag Journal

09-01-2005, 05:15 PM	#2
bio-chem Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Utah Posts: 4,529 Photos: 14	no

09-01-2005, 05:16 PM	#4
ihateschoolmt Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,796 Photos: 10	Depends on what you are doing.

09-01-2005, 05:42 PM	#7
Sam40 Alley-oop! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 174	I'll have to go with no!. You should be trying minimizing biceps involvement, with back work anyway.

09-01-2005, 06:42 PM	#9
Sam40 Alley-oop! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 174	If you rob from Peter to pay Paul, Peter looses. If you allow your biceps to work more than a minimum amount on back work, you rob your back. You should always concentrate on the muscles, primarily involved on any exercise. (example) Taking a wider grip on the bar when doing rows, will involve the biceps less. A narrow grip involves the biceps so much, it might as well be a biceps exercise. Your defeat the whole purpose in back exercise that way. Pulling the bar to high up toward your chest involves the biceps beyond the intent. Pulling low toward the lower chest, and upper abdomen, involves the back more. Rolling your shoulders back, and downward, puts more stress on your lats, and less on the biceps. Ah-oh I forgot about the scientific boys, they won't see it this way.

09-01-2005, 06:57 PM	#10
Fashong Fuck the Katrina Victims Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 790 Photos: 1	I do 5 sets of direct bicep work + back work

09-01-2005, 07:41 PM	#13
Sam40 Alley-oop! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 174	No doubt heavy back work, will result in increased biceps size. As will all the muscles, heavy back works causes the body to produce more growth harmones. But if you wan't to maximise,you don't need to give up your biceps work.

09-01-2005, 07:50 PM	#14
ihateschoolmt Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,796 Photos: 10	Today I did back, after I finished my back work out I tired to do DB curls. I can curl 40x10 if I don't do back first. Today I couldn't curl 30x1.

09-01-2005, 08:00 PM	#16
Sam40 Alley-oop! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 174	There is no way to completely keep the biceps from taking part, in any pulling motion. But with proper form, you cam minimize the amount they are involved. but if you want to maximize your biceps, you should not give up your bicep work. Regardless!. Don't do biceps on back day!.

09-01-2005, 08:07 PM	#17
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Different stroks for different folks. It depends almost entirely on your goals and how you respond as an individual. I was never into doing 50x50 for 10 exercises for my biceps, but I did used to work them directly to a point. Since having done away with that to focus on functional strength (the biceps have little to do with this), my biceps have still been growing, and only with indirect work. Once again, my goals were functional strength, so for someone who just wanted to add X inches to his/her arm, it might be different.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

09-01-2005, 08:42 PM	#20
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Yeah, but the fact that many people do or do not do something is not a valid argument; a lot of people don't do direct leg work, but it's still a stupid idea.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

09-01-2005, 08:42 PM	#22
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,068 Photos: 1	For a powerlifter who does not give a hoot what his arms look like, yes they are enough.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

09-01-2005, 08:43 PM	#23
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	That's cool...
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

09-01-2005, 08:47 PM	#27
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Good thing you do them last. You should be using your energy for the bigger/more important muscle(s) by doing them first; second should come everything else.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

09-01-2005, 08:48 PM	#28
Fashong Fuck the Katrina Victims Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 790 Photos: 1	!!! I like my biceps better then my back lol. My back is crappy expecially where I got sunburnt /cry