Bicep training should be part of a weightlifting routine?

Squaggleboggin · 09-02-2005, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I don't think direct bicep work is necessary. Some people respond very well to it, and others do not. I believe you should try it both ways and see if you can notice an appreciable difference. Personally, I don't respond well to a lot of bicep work. I either do none, or very little.

If whatever you are doing currently is working, then stick with it. When you hit a plateau, feel free to try whichever method you are currently not using. Just don't do workout long bicep marathons unless, perhaps, you are juicing.

I agree completely, and I'm the same way: I respond well with little or no direct work.

dAMvN · 09-03-2005, 12:16 AM

i really dont understand what you call respond well.. because if its building big biceps and lean mass on your arms your not gonna do with without working out ur biceps the right way. Its like saying... " all i need for triceps is my chest routine and im good..." makes no sense wut so ever. I doubt anyone with lean 18" arms doesint target there Biceps atleast once per week.

**CowPimp** · 09-03-2005, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dAMvN

i really dont understand what you call respond well.. because if its building big biceps and lean mass on your arms your not gonna do with without working out ur biceps the right way. Its like saying... " all i need for triceps is my chest routine and im good..." makes no sense wut so ever. I doubt anyone with lean 18" arms doesint target there Biceps atleast once per week.

By respond well I meant get bigger and stronger. My arms have always sucked, unfortunately. Changes were very noticeable once I cut out much of the volume for my arms, although I don't actually take measurements. However, I can provide numbers for breaking past plateaus in strength after removing direct arm work. Also, yes, I am talking biceps and triceps here.

I see where you're coming from, but it is entirely possible to build an awesome set of arms without doing any direct work for them. Don't knock it until you've tried it. I'm not saying it's the only way. I'm not saying it's optimal for everyone. In fact, I think intelligently implemented arm work can be of great benefit. The problem arises when people think that they need to train their biceps as much as their legs. If you are implementing enough compound push and pull movements into your routine, then 1, or maybe 2, lifts is all you need for each arm muscle to maximize growth.

Squaggleboggin · 09-03-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dAMvN

i really dont understand what you call respond well.. because if its building big biceps and lean mass on your arms your not gonna do with without working out ur biceps the right way. Its like saying... " all i need for triceps is my chest routine and im good..." makes no sense wut so ever. I doubt anyone with lean 18" arms doesint target there Biceps atleast once per week.

This also depends nearly completely on the goals of the individual. I'm not trying to get 18" arms, so I don't train for 18" arms. I respond well because I've continued to go up in strength (and even some size). All I do for my triceps is benching. You know why that is? My goals don't require me to do anything else. As long as they're strong enough to keep progressing on my bench, I don't need to train them any more than that. I believe GoPro has used very little arm work in the past with great success as well. I could be wrong about that, but his arms are huge.

TJ Cline · 09-03-2005, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dAMvN

i really dont understand what you call respond well.. because if its building big biceps and lean mass on your arms your not gonna do with without working out ur biceps the right way. Its like saying... " all i need for triceps is my chest routine and im good..." makes no sense wut so ever. I doubt anyone with lean 18" arms doesint target there Biceps atleast once per week.

I agree 100%

The idea that you can have your arms developed to 90-100% of their max without direct arm work is just naive and foolish. If its power or size you want you still have to do some direct arm work. But I feel that most people do too much and also do too little of big power movements (i.e. Bench press, pullups, rows...ect) that will also help them develope a complete set of arms

TheCurse · 09-03-2005, 08:48 PM

i used to never bicep work at all. reason was simple, chest day was short, back day was long. now several years later you can tell my biceps are lagging behind my triceps. not that i dont have any, they just arent nearly as developed.
i have started doing bicep curls recently in an attempt to even out my arm balance a bit more. i usually do them the day after back day or the next day after that, with calves and abs.

kicka19 · 09-04-2005, 11:35 AM

i train biceps about once every 2 weeks directly, i think they get trained enough indirectly and its overtraining to target them constantly

kicka19 · 09-04-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dAMvN

... bro, if you want full bicep growth and size you need to target your bicep. I'm not a pro, but im pretty sure lil arny there knows what hes talking about at 19 years old. Doing back and pulling excerises do workout ur biceps but you dont target the full range of motion and you cant workout ur brachialis (dont know if u spell it like that) to give you that big size.

arnold also juiced liek crazy, he didnt need to worry about overtraining because his genetics and gear would help him recover

PrincePaul · 09-04-2005, 01:47 PM

I have always responded well to bicep training. I couldn't cut it out of my routines for the life of me. From what I understand, triceps should take up 60-75% of your arms. So if you feel like you're hitting a brick wall, maybe more tricep work as well?

Just my opinion. I'm all for bicep training.

arbntmare · 09-04-2005, 01:58 PM

i train my biceps for a total of 12 sets a week (6 sets during chest day, and 6 sets during shoulder day)..

i probably need to change that cause of the fact that my triceps are lacking (only 6 sets a week)

**CowPimp** · 09-04-2005, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbntmare

i train my biceps for a total of 12 sets a week (6 sets during chest day, and 6 sets during shoulder day)..

i probably need to change that cause of the fact that my triceps are lacking (only 6 sets a week)

My opinion is that 12 sets is too much for your biceps, unless you are totally lacking in intensity. Are you doing heavy compound movements like rowing and pullups that also use your biceps? If so, you shouldn't need to devote an entire workout's worth of training to your biceps.

arbntmare · 09-04-2005, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

My opinion is that 12 sets is too much for your biceps, unless you are totally lacking in intensity. Are you doing heavy compound movements like rowing and pullups that also use your biceps? If so, you shouldn't need to devote an entire workout's worth of training to your biceps.

even over a two day period??

**CowPimp** · 09-04-2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbntmare

even over a two day period??

Yes. For the average routine, and I mean moderate volume/moderate intensity, I would say 0-5 sets of bicep work for the week is plenty.

swordfish · 09-04-2005, 08:52 PM

0-5 sets for biceps for the week??????? i like to do at LEAST 6 HARD WORKING SETS, usually ill do 2 exercises, 3 working sets each exercise, and 1 additional exercise- 2 working sets. so 8 sets or so, sometimes ill do 10, sometimes 8, and very rarely 6.

cowpimp, in order to get bigger arms, you must train them, i know ive said it many times, but you must do them to some extent, 6 sets at the least for biceps and triceps, some people can get away with 4 or 5 but for the most part if you dont work them out directly with enough volume they wont get bigger.

**CowPimp** · 09-05-2005, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordfish

0-5 sets for biceps for the week??????? i like to do at LEAST 6 HARD WORKING SETS, usually ill do 2 exercises, 3 working sets each exercise, and 1 additional exercise- 2 working sets. so 8 sets or so, sometimes ill do 10, sometimes 8, and very rarely 6.

cowpimp, in order to get bigger arms, you must train them, i know ive said it many times, but you must do them to some extent, 6 sets at the least for biceps and triceps, some people can get away with 4 or 5 but for the most part if you dont work them out directly with enough volume they wont get bigger.

If those 6 sets are completely lacking in intensity, then maybe it's necessary. You can waste your time curling for 30 minutes in a workout if you want. I would rather not.

**CowPimp** · 09-05-2005, 02:08 AM

Look, I never said 0-5 sets is the only thing that worked anyway. I said 12 sets is too much in my opinion, and he should try less. 0-5 sets is a starting point. Volume can be played with. I'm not spitting out numbers that are set in stone, but general guidelines.

I'm willing to bet the majority of people that say low volume or no volume for the arms doesn't work have never tried it. However, I have tried high volume arm workouts, and it doesn't cut it for myself. I am not the only one who has experienced these results. Try it before you bastardize it. Just try it. If it doesn't work, then go back to your arm blaster routine.

swordfish · 09-05-2005, 11:14 AM

i have tried it before, it doesnt work very good for me.

my main point is cowpimp, is im not saying that it wont work for you, but you wont get bigger arms by not training them. you need to have intensity and volume.

i think people that say it wont work for them havent really tried long enough. people with big arms train them with intensity and volume.

MuscleM4n · 09-05-2005, 11:50 AM

Update: Started bicep training yesterday and it has already added o.5" to my arms

- It's the pump that increased the size but it is the biggest my arms have ever been 13"

I think i started with 10" arms so all is good.

My ideals have changed and i know believe that bicep training is a good thing.

Once again thanks for all your replies, I appreciate it.

HardTrainer · 09-05-2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordfish

you wont get bigger arms by not training them. you need to have intensity and volume.

I disagree although you might need some direct work, you cant say your arms wont grow if you dont train them....

If you can now bench press press and row twice what you do now your arms will be much bigger even if you didnt do direct arm work.

**CowPimp** · 09-05-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordfish

i have tried it before, it doesnt work very good for me.

Okay, fair enough.

Quote:

my main point is cowpimp, is im not saying that it wont work for you, but you wont get bigger arms by not training them. you need to have intensity and volume.

You're wrong. You can, and will, get bigger arms without training them directly. I didn't say it was optimal for everyone, but it does work. You can't tell me it doesnt, because it worked for me and several others I have talked to.

Your arms are still doing work when you are pulling or pressing weights, period. In fact, there's a chance that a regimen of only squatting would build bigger biceps in the long run than a routine consisting of only bicep curls. Your body strives to maintain balance, and there is always carry-over to other muscles.

Quote:

i think people that say it wont work for them havent really tried long enough. people with big arms train them with intensity and volume.

Nonsense. Most everyone goes into training thinking that they have to train their biceps with as many different exercises and working sets as their legs. It's not that it won't and didn't work for me. I put size on my arms doing direct work, but I put on more size, and especially strength, by not training them directly or doing very little direct work.

dAMvN · 09-05-2005, 09:10 PM

Seriously, I think it's plain dumb if you dont train your bicep directly atleast once per week. I dont understand why not. Look at Bodybuilders they all do it. Personal trainer do it to. If you want that lance armstong bicep look then dont, but if your here to get mass and gain muscle then you must. So dont throw false information in the air like that, that just gets ppl a lil confused. How else are you going to shape your bicep and give it mass? doing back? that doesint make sense... yes any pulling exe would put strain on ur bicep but its not going to give u the full range of motion your bicep needs and the pump it needs to gain muscle and mass.

swordfish · 09-05-2005, 09:25 PM

bicep curls will work better to build bigger biceps better than squats...

as far as getting them bigger without direct training, yes they will get big with the big movements, barbell rows, bench press, and military press, but they will get EVEN BIGGER if you incorporate direct arm work with intensity and a reasonable amount of volume.

Squaggleboggin · 09-05-2005, 10:12 PM

It depends completely on the individual. If you happen to respond better to higher volumes, go ahead and directly train them and get bigger - that's great. If you happen to respond better to lower volume and higher intensity, keep working them indirectly and get bigger. Personally, I really don't care how large my biceps are, so the only work they get is from rows and such. As long as they're strong enough for me to do the big moves, I'm happy. I'm going to have to say that damvn is incorrect, cowpimp is correct, and swordfish is also correct because he understands that indirect work will work in certain situations, but that direct work may yield more results for certain individuals. That's just my opinion though.

dAMvN · 09-06-2005, 12:17 AM

how am I wrong? Please explain.

**CowPimp** · 09-06-2005, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dAMvN

Seriously, I think it's plain dumb if you dont train your bicep directly atleast once per week. I dont understand why not. Look at Bodybuilders they all do it. Personal trainer do it to. If you want that lance armstong bicep look then dont, but if your here to get mass and gain muscle then you must. So dont throw false information in the air like that, that just gets ppl a lil confused. How else are you going to shape your bicep and give it mass? doing back? that doesint make sense... yes any pulling exe would put strain on ur bicep but its not going to give u the full range of motion your bicep needs and the pump it needs to gain muscle and mass.

Who cares what other people do, particularly bodybuilders? Bodybuilders can get away with more volume all around because they are on steroids. I'm talking about in the context of a natural lifter. Also, people who have small arms also do 45 minutes worth of bicep training. There are people on both sides of the fence. The difference is genetics, diet, and other factors in training. Furthermore, you are making assumptions. There are bodybuilders and personal trainers that do no or low volume arm work.

You need to re-read my posts. This is not a black and white subject. I never said indirect arm work is the only way to go. Read this carefully, and comprehend it. Don't just look at the words, but read them:

Quote:

I see where you're coming from, but it is entirely possible to build an awesome set of arms without doing any direct work for them. Don't knock it until you've tried it. I'm not saying it's the only way. I'm not saying it's optimal for everyone. In fact, I think intelligently implemented arm work can be of great benefit. The problem arises when people think that they need to train their biceps as much as their legs. If you are implementing enough compound push and pull movements into your routine, then 1, or maybe 2, lifts is all you need for each arm muscle to maximize growth.

So, as you see, I think some level of arm works is beneficial. Just don't overdo it. All I'm saying is that you can build a nice set of arms without direct work. Whether or not it is optimal is a different story, and that will depend on the person in question.

**CowPimp** · 09-06-2005, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordfish

bicep curls will work better to build bigger biceps better than squats...

It was a hypothetical situation that I mentioned. Granted, no one is just going to do a routine consisting of only curls or squats, but I still think in the long run the squatter would have bigger arms. Call me crazy, but it's just a hypothesis of mine.

Quote:

as far as getting them bigger without direct training, yes they will get big with the big movements, barbell rows, bench press, and military press, but they will get EVEN BIGGER if you incorporate direct arm work with intensity and a reasonable amount of volume.

Well said. However, I still say some, not everyone, but some people respond better to no, or a very low volume of, direct arm work. I am one of those people.

swordfish · 09-06-2005, 11:20 AM

fair enough, i understand your point of view. good debate.

09-03-2005, 12:16 AM	#32
dAMvN Go Bench... Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 310 Photos: 1	i really dont understand what you call respond well.. because if its building big biceps and lean mass on your arms your not gonna do with without working out ur biceps the right way. Its like saying... " all i need for triceps is my chest routine and im good..." makes no sense wut so ever. I doubt anyone with lean 18" arms doesint target there Biceps atleast once per week.
	Age: 19

09-03-2005, 08:48 PM	#36
TheCurse Barbell Ninja Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dago Posts: 767 Photos: 6	i used to never bicep work at all. reason was simple, chest day was short, back day was long. now several years later you can tell my biceps are lagging behind my triceps. not that i dont have any, they just arent nearly as developed. i have started doing bicep curls recently in an attempt to even out my arm balance a bit more. i usually do them the day after back day or the next day after that, with calves and abs.
	Still Alive.

09-04-2005, 01:58 PM	#40
arbntmare StudentDentistTeethPuller Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 309	i train my biceps for a total of 12 sets a week (6 sets during chest day, and 6 sets during shoulder day).. i probably need to change that cause of the fact that my triceps are lacking (only 6 sets a week)
	No Pain, No Gain

09-05-2005, 02:08 AM	#46
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	Look, I never said 0-5 sets is the only thing that worked anyway. I said 12 sets is too much in my opinion, and he should try less. 0-5 sets is a starting point. Volume can be played with. I'm not spitting out numbers that are set in stone, but general guidelines. I'm willing to bet the majority of people that say low volume or no volume for the arms doesn't work have never tried it. However, I have tried high volume arm workouts, and it doesn't cut it for myself. I am not the only one who has experienced these results. Try it before you bastardize it. Just try it. If it doesn't work, then go back to your arm blaster routine.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

09-05-2005, 11:50 AM	#48
MuscleM4n Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,280 Photos: 9	Update: Started bicep training yesterday and it has already added o.5" to my arms - It's the pump that increased the size but it is the biggest my arms have ever been 13" I think i started with 10" arms so all is good. My ideals have changed and i know believe that bicep training is a good thing. Once again thanks for all your replies, I appreciate it.
	Age 19, Weight 132lbs , height 5'4", 8% bodyfat, 100% natural. Deadlift - 274lbs (NEW PB 9/8/2005) Squat - 274lbs (NEW PB 19/8/2005) Bench press - 154lbs Total - 702lbs @ 132lbs My Website Full Body Pictures 26/9/2005 My Journal! - Progress pictures 28/8/2005 Paint bodybuilder "Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint". Originally Posted by P-funk: "eat for size, train for strength".

09-04-2005, 11:35 AM	#37
kicka19 the true playboy Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,777	i train biceps about once every 2 weeks directly, i think they get trained enough indirectly and its overtraining to target them constantly

09-04-2005, 01:47 PM	#39
PrincePaul Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 111	I have always responded well to bicep training. I couldn't cut it out of my routines for the life of me. From what I understand, triceps should take up 60-75% of your arms. So if you feel like you're hitting a brick wall, maybe more tricep work as well? Just my opinion. I'm all for bicep training.

09-04-2005, 08:52 PM	#44
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	0-5 sets for biceps for the week??????? i like to do at LEAST 6 HARD WORKING SETS, usually ill do 2 exercises, 3 working sets each exercise, and 1 additional exercise- 2 working sets. so 8 sets or so, sometimes ill do 10, sometimes 8, and very rarely 6. cowpimp, in order to get bigger arms, you must train them, i know ive said it many times, but you must do them to some extent, 6 sets at the least for biceps and triceps, some people can get away with 4 or 5 but for the most part if you dont work them out directly with enough volume they wont get bigger.

09-05-2005, 11:14 AM	#47
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	i have tried it before, it doesnt work very good for me. my main point is cowpimp, is im not saying that it wont work for you, but you wont get bigger arms by not training them. you need to have intensity and volume. i think people that say it wont work for them havent really tried long enough. people with big arms train them with intensity and volume.

09-05-2005, 09:10 PM	#51
dAMvN Go Bench... Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 310 Photos: 1	Seriously, I think it's plain dumb if you dont train your bicep directly atleast once per week. I dont understand why not. Look at Bodybuilders they all do it. Personal trainer do it to. If you want that lance armstong bicep look then dont, but if your here to get mass and gain muscle then you must. So dont throw false information in the air like that, that just gets ppl a lil confused. How else are you going to shape your bicep and give it mass? doing back? that doesint make sense... yes any pulling exe would put strain on ur bicep but its not going to give u the full range of motion your bicep needs and the pump it needs to gain muscle and mass.
	Age: 19

09-05-2005, 09:25 PM	#52
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	bicep curls will work better to build bigger biceps better than squats... as far as getting them bigger without direct training, yes they will get big with the big movements, barbell rows, bench press, and military press, but they will get EVEN BIGGER if you incorporate direct arm work with intensity and a reasonable amount of volume.

09-05-2005, 10:12 PM	#53
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	It depends completely on the individual. If you happen to respond better to higher volumes, go ahead and directly train them and get bigger - that's great. If you happen to respond better to lower volume and higher intensity, keep working them indirectly and get bigger. Personally, I really don't care how large my biceps are, so the only work they get is from rows and such. As long as they're strong enough for me to do the big moves, I'm happy. I'm going to have to say that damvn is incorrect, cowpimp is correct, and swordfish is also correct because he understands that indirect work will work in certain situations, but that direct work may yield more results for certain individuals. That's just my opinion though.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

09-06-2005, 12:17 AM	#54
dAMvN Go Bench... Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 310 Photos: 1	how am I wrong? Please explain.
	Age: 19

09-06-2005, 11:20 AM	#57
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	fair enough, i understand your point of view. good debate.