Bicep training should be part of a weightlifting routine?

**P-funk** · 09-06-2005, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dAMvN
CowPimp, if you swear that by doing low volume and not targeting your bicep directly you could sculp big lean biceps, how come you dont have em?

Nice try but your argument doesn't really hold up. think about it, what is big to Pimp might not be big to you or I or anyone else and vice versa. If pimp started training with 13" arms and they grew to 16" well that is a hell of an improvement. Now, ofcourse they aren't 23" biceps like a pro bb'er but 3" of growth on a natural arm is awesome and he may not even have genetically great arms. So you really can't make an argument like that because you don't know where he came from to get where he is now.

turbine5 · 09-06-2005, 07:58 PM

I don't think this biceps thing is a hard and fast rule...some need to do direct biceps work, some shouldn't do directed bicep work due to overtraining...there are probably good examples of each case working for people...and we will just go in circles arguing this point, whereas both sides can be right

on the other hand...I think this genetics excuse is thrown around too easily...when people don't get the results they are looking for, they are quick to throw out the "I don't have the genetics" excuse...work harder and smarter...learn what is best for your body and almost anything is achievable...

jmo

**P-funk** · 09-06-2005, 08:01 PM

Here is my take on it:

If you are a BB'er or training for physical gratification......do some bicep work

It you are a powerlifter training for a better bench press and deadlift.....do some bicep work.

If you are an olympic lifter.......don't wast your time on the bicep work.

If you just train for overal strength and don't give a shit......don't waste your time on bicep work but a little bit wont hurt you either.

can we all agree on this?

Squaggleboggin · 09-06-2005, 08:03 PM

I certainly can.

TJ Cline · 09-06-2005, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardTrainer

the other 5 %

I call bull shit on that......Mike did direct bicep work 3x a week.......then later droped it down to 2x a week.......read up kid

TJ Cline · 09-06-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Actually, you're the one who tried to insult me. I wasn't trying to insult you. I just stated the fact that your arms are about the same size as mine, and you do lots of direct work I assume. My arms are just shy of 16".

Oh yeah, and physiques are subjective. I'm happy with mine, so your insults don't hurt me.

16 cold???? no a chance....unless your 6'8
my off the top of my head guess would be in the 14.5-15in range

**CowPimp** · 09-06-2005, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dAMvN

Dipshit? dude dont let the lil internet get to you this is a FORUM so relax and chill how you talk 2 ppl. Fact of the matter is you wont have biceps if you dont train them. This is the most idiotic thread on this board. 0-5 sets of bicep is enough. OMG yea if your my freakin grandma. Listin "CowPimp" and the rest of you that keep holdin his nuts (all of you dont have biceps) keep doin what ur doing lets see whos gonna have bigger biceps and more defined arms in a few months.

You simply don't understand kinesiology. Guess what happens during elbow flexion? Your biceps contract. Whether or not you involve other muscles in this really doesn't matter. Your biceps are still capable of being overloaded along with the other muscles involved in the movement. Just because you don't do isolation movements doesn't mean you aren't working your biceps.

Quote:

Oh and P.S for the record you guys that go along with the bullcrap "CowPimp" is feeding you, you guys obviously do not know that you dont train bicep one way. you need to attack it different ways. ways I dont even know. for example your peak and the bricials. i dont see how u can target these by putting plates on a barbell or workingout ur back. its plain stupid. so keep doin wut ur doing and lets compare in a few months.

The people that agree with me do so because it worked for them. They aren't magical fairies that I summoned from another dimension to prove my point. The zero/low volume approach works for a lot of people.

Oh yeah, and you can't target the peak of your bicep. That is genetically determined. You also can't "attack it different ways." Your bicep contracts the same no matter what the stimulus, save for the fact that it is more efficient when you have a supinated grip on the weight being moved. Oh yeah, and guess what? The brachialis gets trained during any movement involving elbow flexion as well.

**CowPimp** · 09-06-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

16 cold???? no a chance....unless your 6'8
my off the top of my head guess would be in the 14.5-15in range

My left arm is like 15 3/4, my right arm is a 1/4 or so smaller. I'm talking flexed, but not pumped.

MuscleM4n · 09-06-2005, 08:21 PM

nice post cowpimp...put him in his place.

Hopefully has has now learnt something from you.

**CowPimp** · 09-06-2005, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Here is my take on it:

If you are a BB'er or training for physical gratification......do some bicep work

It you are a powerlifter training for a better bench press and deadlift.....do some bicep work.

If you are an olympic lifter.......don't wast your time on the bicep work.

If you just train for overal strength and don't give a shit......don't waste your time on bicep work but a little bit wont hurt you either.

can we all agree on this?

I think that makes sense. All I was saying is that the low/no volume approach works for some people. Try it out. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't. I don't care. If you hit a plateau in arm size, then it is something to try.

MuscleM4n · 09-06-2005, 08:29 PM

This is the point i was trying to put across by making this thread and then people like god hand call me dumb...fantastic.

**P-funk** · 09-06-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuscleM4n

This is the point i was trying to put across by making this thread and then people like god hand call me dumb...fantastic.

Having god hand call you dumb is probably the coolest thing that can happen to anyone! He is pretty much the dumbest person I have ever seen so I love when he goes on those rants and spells words incorrectly and makes an asshole out of himself.

rangers97 · 09-06-2005, 08:32 PM

personally, I would rather be able to barbell row 225+ pounds and do chinups with 50pounds strapped to my waist than worry about doing endless sets of curls....

And do you think someone that can do the above movements would have small biceps??? I think not...

The only bicep movement that I would argue doing would be hammer curls, as that is kind of a "compound" movement as it gets the forearms and biceps as well, but it also gets the biceps in an entirely different way than the pulling exercises do, in my opinion...

TJ Cline · 09-06-2005, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

My left arm is like 15 3/4, my right arm is a 1/4 or so smaller. I'm talking flexed, but not pumped.

Unless you have gained 20lbs of muscle since you took those pics.....no way.

I'll stick with -14.5 as my guess....15 was being overly nice.

god hand · 09-06-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangers97

but it also gets the biceps in an entirely different way than the pulling exercises do, in my opinion...

...................I can agree with that.

MuscleM4n · 09-06-2005, 08:36 PM

yes rangers good post; i would much rather prefer to be able to row 225lbs than be a bicep boy champion .... the hammer curl also trains the brachialis quite well.

god hand · 09-06-2005, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Having god hand call you dumb is probably the coolest thing that can happen to anyone! He is pretty much the dumbest person I have ever seen so I love when he goes on those rants and spells words incorrectly and makes an asshole out of himself.

Make sure u dont train you biceps more than 3x a year! Dont wanna overtrain!

**P-funk** · 09-06-2005, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by god hand

Make sure u dont train you biceps more than 3x a year! Dont wanna overtrain!

I haven't trained biceps or bench press in months. Don't worry.

Squaggleboggin · 09-06-2005, 08:44 PM

I can do a yates row with more than my BW with perfect form for reps, which isn't too bad. You can't really say that my biceps are particularly weak considering the way the yates row is performed, and I never do direct work.

rangers97 · 09-06-2005, 08:56 PM

i recently started doing the "yates row" just for the sole purpose of using more biceps...I've also started doing chinups instead of pullups...I figure the stronger I get on these movements, the stronger my biceps will get. Plus, now I only "need" to add a couple of sets of hammer curls a week and I am good to go.

I figure if I only do bench press, incline press, and dips to target my chest and tris, and right now I can bench over 300 1rm, and 275 for reps, and do dips with 120 lbs added to my belt, my triceps can't be accused of being small...so, the same should apply to biceps

MuscleM4n · 09-06-2005, 08:59 PM

chin-ups and pull-ups are not the same thing?

forgive my ignorance but i thought they were just different names given?

**P-funk** · 09-06-2005, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuscleM4n

chin-ups and pull-ups are not the same thing?

forgive my ignorance but i thought they were just different names given?

chin ups= under hand

pull ups= over hand

MuscleM4n · 09-06-2005, 09:05 PM

ohh.

In that case i have always been doing close grip chin-ups and wide grip pull-ups.

dAMvN · 09-06-2005, 11:26 PM

lol okay cowshit, lol u dont train ur bracials by doing just any bicep movement. You need concentration curls and other sort of exe. goes to show u dont know shit. sides u wouldint know because u dont even have a bracials LOL goes to show ur lil bicep theroy is crap. dude keep lookin like a holocaust suvivor not my problem.

Yanick · 09-06-2005, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dAMvN

lol okay cowshit, lol u dont train ur bracials by doing just any bicep movement. You need concentration curls and other sort of exe. goes to show u dont know shit. sides u wouldint know because u dont even have a bracials LOL goes to show ur lil bicep theroy is crap. dude keep lookin like a holocaust suvivor not my problem.

since you spelled it wrong before, i wasn't sure which muscle you were talking about so i pretty much found the 3 muscles, read the comments and look at the function of the muscles, they all do the same thing...except like it says, you can put one of those muscles at a disadvantage biomechanically and shift more emphasis on another one (ie hammer curls vs bicep curls).

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/Brachialis.html

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/Brachioradialis.html

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/BicepsBrachii.html

**CowPimp** · 09-07-2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dAMvN

lol okay cowshit, lol u dont train ur bracials by doing just any bicep movement. You need concentration curls and other sort of exe. goes to show u dont know shit. sides u wouldint know because u dont even have a bracials LOL goes to show ur lil bicep theroy is crap. dude keep lookin like a holocaust suvivor not my problem.

No, you don't need concentration curls, or any other specialized movements. The brachialis is involved in elbow flexion. However, as Yanick said, the muscles have their most efficient line of pull depending on the orientation of the wrist.

What I look like doesn't make me wrong or right. You need to stop resorting to insults when you don't know what you're talking about. It's very unbecoming. Not to mention, I have 25 pounds on you with only a small height advantage, so gain some weight before you talk shit. Talk all the trash you want when you can back it up, hypocrite.

09-06-2005, 08:01 PM	#93
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,625	Here is my take on it: If you are a BB'er or training for physical gratification......do some bicep work It you are a powerlifter training for a better bench press and deadlift.....do some bicep work. If you are an olympic lifter.......don't wast your time on the bicep work. If you just train for overal strength and don't give a shit......don't waste your time on bicep work but a little bit wont hurt you either. can we all agree on this?
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

09-06-2005, 08:03 PM	#94
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	I certainly can.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

09-06-2005, 08:21 PM	#99
MuscleM4n Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,280 Photos: 9	nice post cowpimp...put him in his place. Hopefully has has now learnt something from you.
	Age 19, Weight 132lbs , height 5'4", 8% bodyfat, 100% natural. Deadlift - 274lbs (NEW PB 9/8/2005) Squat - 274lbs (NEW PB 19/8/2005) Bench press - 154lbs Total - 702lbs @ 132lbs My Website Full Body Pictures 26/9/2005 My Journal! - Progress pictures 28/8/2005 Paint bodybuilder "Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint". Originally Posted by P-funk: "eat for size, train for strength".

09-06-2005, 08:29 PM	#101
MuscleM4n Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,280 Photos: 9	This is the point i was trying to put across by making this thread and then people like god hand call me dumb...fantastic.
	Age 19, Weight 132lbs , height 5'4", 8% bodyfat, 100% natural. Deadlift - 274lbs (NEW PB 9/8/2005) Squat - 274lbs (NEW PB 19/8/2005) Bench press - 154lbs Total - 702lbs @ 132lbs My Website Full Body Pictures 26/9/2005 My Journal! - Progress pictures 28/8/2005 Paint bodybuilder "Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint". Originally Posted by P-funk: "eat for size, train for strength".

09-06-2005, 08:36 PM	#106
MuscleM4n Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,280 Photos: 9	yes rangers good post; i would much rather prefer to be able to row 225lbs than be a bicep boy champion .... the hammer curl also trains the brachialis quite well.
	Age 19, Weight 132lbs , height 5'4", 8% bodyfat, 100% natural. Deadlift - 274lbs (NEW PB 9/8/2005) Squat - 274lbs (NEW PB 19/8/2005) Bench press - 154lbs Total - 702lbs @ 132lbs My Website Full Body Pictures 26/9/2005 My Journal! - Progress pictures 28/8/2005 Paint bodybuilder "Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint". Originally Posted by P-funk: "eat for size, train for strength".

09-06-2005, 07:58 PM	#92
turbine5 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lotusland Posts: 83	I don't think this biceps thing is a hard and fast rule...some need to do direct biceps work, some shouldn't do directed bicep work due to overtraining...there are probably good examples of each case working for people...and we will just go in circles arguing this point, whereas both sides can be right on the other hand...I think this genetics excuse is thrown around too easily...when people don't get the results they are looking for, they are quick to throw out the "I don't have the genetics" excuse...work harder and smarter...learn what is best for your body and almost anything is achievable... jmo

09-06-2005, 08:32 PM	#103
rangers97 2006 Stanley Cup Champs! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New York Posts: 245	personally, I would rather be able to barbell row 225+ pounds and do chinups with 50pounds strapped to my waist than worry about doing endless sets of curls.... And do you think someone that can do the above movements would have small biceps??? I think not... The only bicep movement that I would argue doing would be hammer curls, as that is kind of a "compound" movement as it gets the forearms and biceps as well, but it also gets the biceps in an entirely different way than the pulling exercises do, in my opinion...

09-06-2005, 08:44 PM	#109
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	I can do a yates row with more than my BW with perfect form for reps, which isn't too bad. You can't really say that my biceps are particularly weak considering the way the yates row is performed, and I never do direct work.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

09-06-2005, 08:56 PM	#110
rangers97 2006 Stanley Cup Champs! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New York Posts: 245	i recently started doing the "yates row" just for the sole purpose of using more biceps...I've also started doing chinups instead of pullups...I figure the stronger I get on these movements, the stronger my biceps will get. Plus, now I only "need" to add a couple of sets of hammer curls a week and I am good to go. I figure if I only do bench press, incline press, and dips to target my chest and tris, and right now I can bench over 300 1rm, and 275 for reps, and do dips with 120 lbs added to my belt, my triceps can't be accused of being small...so, the same should apply to biceps

09-06-2005, 08:59 PM	#111
MuscleM4n Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,280 Photos: 9	chin-ups and pull-ups are not the same thing? forgive my ignorance but i thought they were just different names given?
	Age 19, Weight 132lbs , height 5'4", 8% bodyfat, 100% natural. Deadlift - 274lbs (NEW PB 9/8/2005) Squat - 274lbs (NEW PB 19/8/2005) Bench press - 154lbs Total - 702lbs @ 132lbs My Website Full Body Pictures 26/9/2005 My Journal! - Progress pictures 28/8/2005 Paint bodybuilder "Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint". Originally Posted by P-funk: "eat for size, train for strength".

09-06-2005, 09:05 PM	#113
MuscleM4n Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,280 Photos: 9	ohh. In that case i have always been doing close grip chin-ups and wide grip pull-ups.
	Age 19, Weight 132lbs , height 5'4", 8% bodyfat, 100% natural. Deadlift - 274lbs (NEW PB 9/8/2005) Squat - 274lbs (NEW PB 19/8/2005) Bench press - 154lbs Total - 702lbs @ 132lbs My Website Full Body Pictures 26/9/2005 My Journal! - Progress pictures 28/8/2005 Paint bodybuilder "Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint". Originally Posted by P-funk: "eat for size, train for strength".

09-06-2005, 11:26 PM	#114
dAMvN Go Bench... Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 310 Photos: 1	lol okay cowshit, lol u dont train ur bracials by doing just any bicep movement. You need concentration curls and other sort of exe. goes to show u dont know shit. sides u wouldint know because u dont even have a bracials LOL goes to show ur lil bicep theroy is crap. dude keep lookin like a holocaust suvivor not my problem.
	Age: 19