Cardio! Does it hinder your muscle growth?

**Prince** · 08-25-2001, 11:57 AM

As the subject reads: Does cardio hinder your progress in muscle/weight gain? Even if you're taking in enough calories to offset the cardio?

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

TheSupremeBeing · 08-25-2001, 01:58 PM

If you eat enough calories and do the cardio while not glucose depleted, no it doesn't...and it actually can help.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

KataMaStEr · 08-25-2001, 03:46 PM

I agree with supreme.

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Imagination without action is a daydream, action without imagination is a nightmare.

cytrix · 08-25-2001, 04:29 PM

i agree with both, however:
we have limited recovery ability, if you do too much intense cardio along with weighttraining you'll overtrain.
also, it will interfere with adaptation to weighttraining, assuming that this is your primary goal and not cardio vascular fitness, if overdone.

**Prince** · 08-25-2001, 04:55 PM

I've always "felt" that when I do cardio often, it hinders leg development. Although it may only be mental.

Anyone agree or disagree?

------------------
Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

cytrix · 08-25-2001, 05:10 PM

i agree w/prince, i noticed that too way back. it's probably because the muscles involved in any form of cardio are pretty much only the leg muscles, so that's why it interferes with their development most.
me personally, i stopped doing regular cardio and do sprints/intervalls only, and not too much of it either. i got good results improving my cardio vascular fitness from what i can tell.
anybody has an opinion on intervalls being much more compatible with body building than steady pace cardio?

**I Are Baboon** · 08-25-2001, 05:22 PM

Cardio? What's that?

I hate doing cardio, so I avoid it like the plague. I perform cardio in the form of mountain biking. It does not hinder MY muscle growth. I eat enough protein and calories to make up for the 1000 or so calories I burn when I bike.

TheSupremeBeing · 08-25-2001, 05:48 PM

I hate cardio, too. I feel like sh*t when I do it. But, It's never hindered my gain if I ate enough.

It can help gains becuase it increases capillary size and density, along with mitochondria density and size. Mitochondria are these little mofo's that supply energy to your muscles for them to contract (they are also required for fat burning)....so that;'s how cardio can help.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Pemburu · 08-25-2001, 05:59 PM

Anyone,
What do you think about the cardio in the Body For Life program? 20 min, first thing in the morning, 3x per week, on an empty stomach. Is one too depleted at that point (no food last 8-9 hrs) or is 20 min not enough to eat into muscle gains?

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On the Down Hill

The Rose · 08-25-2001, 06:01 PM

I've learned that cardio is for the birds even when cutting! As long as you control your diet and keep pumping the weights, you can lose fat without cardio. At one time I was so stupid that I actually stopped pumping weights and did only cardio to lose weight thinking that it was good for me. Remember that whatever you do, never ever replace weightlifting with cardio or if you can only do one or the other then do weightlifting. YOU DO NOT NEED CARDIO TO LOSE WEIGHT OR GAIN LEAN MUSCLE MASS. It's all in your diet!

TheSupremeBeing · 08-25-2001, 07:16 PM

Yes Pemburu, that's bad.

Takes about 4 hours for liver glucose to get depleted.

Rose, have you ever been below 10% bodyfat?

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Charger · 08-26-2001, 03:53 AM

I'll go along with Baboon, Mountain bikes are the only way I have found I can enjoy doing cardio. I ride mine to and from the gym for a warm up and cool down.

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Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)

cytrix · 08-26-2001, 06:26 AM

TSB, you mean with depleted liver glycogen stores you will start breaking down muscle tissue for energy while exercising? i thought you will only tap into using protein/muscle, if you work out ANAEROBICALLY with DEPLETED MUSCLE GLYCOGEN STORES and NO GLUCOSE IN YOUR BLOODSTREAM EITHER (depending on the intensity while doing cardio it's more or less a mix of aerobic and anaerobic).

**Prince** · 08-26-2001, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pemburu:
Anyone,
What do you think about the cardio in the Body For Life program? 20 min, first thing in the morning, 3x per week, on an empty stomach. Is one too depleted at that point (no food last 8-9 hrs) or is 20 min not enough to eat into muscle gains?

I cannot tell you from a scientific stand point, but I can tell you from my wife's experience. We have a gym, including a treadmill in our basement, and she was getting up 3-4 days per week at 5:30am and runnning for 30 minutes on an empty stomach. After several months of this, she said that she did not see a difference.

For whatever that is worth to you!

------------------
Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

TheSupremeBeing · 08-26-2001, 08:35 AM

Training aerobically uses liver glucose (the oxidative phosphorylation mechanism). Training anaerobically uses muscle glucose (anaerobic glycolysis mechanism). It takes quite a while for muscle glucose to deplete...about 3 days with no carbs. So, weight training without carbs wouldn't be too bad, albiet not optimal. But, cardio without carbs is quite bad, because oxidative phosphorylation is a survival mechanism and it catabolizes all available tissue according to survival (fat keeps ya living longer, thus it catabolizes muscle first).

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

cytrix · 08-26-2001, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:
Training aerobically uses liver glucose (the oxidative phosphorylation mechanism). Training anaerobically uses muscle glucose (anaerobic glycolysis mechanism). It takes quite a while for muscle glucose to deplete...about 3 days with no carbs. So, weight training without carbs wouldn't be too bad, albiet not optimal. But, cardio without carbs is quite bad, because oxidative phosphorylation is a survival mechanism and it catabolizes all available tissue according to survival (fat keeps ya living longer, thus it catabolizes muscle first).

thanx for explaining, TSB, what about when you're in ketosis, it would be ok then, if you wanted to do low intensity cardio first thing in the morning, right?

TheSupremeBeing · 08-26-2001, 05:06 PM

Wouldn't really make a difference either way.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

The Rose · 08-26-2001, 05:52 PM

No TSB, I have never been below 10% body fat. Why do you ask?

TheSupremeBeing · 08-26-2001, 06:12 PM

Well, I've never had a problem losing fat without cardio until I hit 7-8% bodyfat....

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

bharminder · 08-26-2001, 10:30 PM

So, if you do cardio you should always eat something an hour or two before?

TheSupremeBeing · 08-26-2001, 10:46 PM

Yes.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

cytrix · 08-27-2001, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:
Wouldn't really make a difference either way.

what do you mean, it wouldn't make a difference while in ketosis WHEN you do cardio, whether after awakening or any other time (unlike when you're not in ketosis when cardio after awakening will make you use muscle if you don't eat before)??

The Rose · 08-27-2001, 04:17 PM

TSB, why do you want to go below 7% bodyfat?

TheSupremeBeing · 08-27-2001, 05:21 PM

Why do you care? To get into contest shape, that's why.

That's what I'm saying, cytrix.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

The Rose · 08-28-2001, 08:40 AM

Sorry TSB, I didn't know you were competing!

08-25-2001, 11:57 AM	#1
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,717 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	Cardio! Does it hinder your muscle growth? As the subject reads: Does cardio hinder your progress in muscle/weight gain? Even if you're taking in enough calories to offset the cardio? ------------------ Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

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08-25-2001, 01:58 PM	#2
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	If you eat enough calories and do the cardio while not glucose depleted, no it doesn't...and it actually can help. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-25-2001, 03:46 PM	#3
KataMaStEr -==♠==- Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sunshine State Posts: 1,960 Photos: 6	I agree with supreme. ------------------ Imagination without action is a daydream, action without imagination is a nightmare.

08-25-2001, 04:29 PM	#4
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	i agree with both, however: we have limited recovery ability, if you do too much intense cardio along with weighttraining you'll overtrain. also, it will interfere with adaptation to weighttraining, assuming that this is your primary goal and not cardio vascular fitness, if overdone.

08-25-2001, 04:55 PM	#5
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,717 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	I've always "felt" that when I do cardio often, it hinders leg development. Although it may only be mental. Anyone agree or disagree? ------------------ Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

08-25-2001, 05:10 PM	#6
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	i agree w/prince, i noticed that too way back. it's probably because the muscles involved in any form of cardio are pretty much only the leg muscles, so that's why it interferes with their development most. me personally, i stopped doing regular cardio and do sprints/intervalls only, and not too much of it either. i got good results improving my cardio vascular fitness from what i can tell. anybody has an opinion on intervalls being much more compatible with body building than steady pace cardio?

08-25-2001, 05:22 PM	#7
I Are Baboon pedal pedal pedal Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Beerville Posts: 10,904 Photos: 10	Cardio? What's that? I hate doing cardio, so I avoid it like the plague. I perform cardio in the form of mountain biking. It does not hinder MY muscle growth. I eat enough protein and calories to make up for the 1000 or so calories I burn when I bike.

08-25-2001, 05:48 PM	#8
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	I hate cardio, too. I feel like sht when I do it. But, It's never hindered my gain if I ate enough. It can help gains becuase it increases capillary size and density, along with mitochondria density and size. Mitochondria are these little mofo's that supply energy to your muscles for them to contract (they are also required for fat burning)....so that;'s how cardio can help. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.*

08-25-2001, 05:59 PM	#9
Pemburu Person Jungle Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: South of the Border Posts: 190	Anyone, What do you think about the cardio in the Body For Life program? 20 min, first thing in the morning, 3x per week, on an empty stomach. Is one too depleted at that point (no food last 8-9 hrs) or is 20 min not enough to eat into muscle gains? ------------------ On the Down Hill

08-25-2001, 06:01 PM	#10
The Rose Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 188	I've learned that cardio is for the birds even when cutting! As long as you control your diet and keep pumping the weights, you can lose fat without cardio. At one time I was so stupid that I actually stopped pumping weights and did only cardio to lose weight thinking that it was good for me. Remember that whatever you do, never ever replace weightlifting with cardio or if you can only do one or the other then do weightlifting. YOU DO NOT NEED CARDIO TO LOSE WEIGHT OR GAIN LEAN MUSCLE MASS. It's all in your diet!

08-25-2001, 07:16 PM	#11
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Yes Pemburu, that's bad. Takes about 4 hours for liver glucose to get depleted. Rose, have you ever been below 10% bodyfat? ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-26-2001, 03:53 AM	#12
Charger Pump Junky Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Iowa Posts: 465	I'll go along with Baboon, Mountain bikes are the only way I have found I can enjoy doing cardio. I ride mine to and from the gym for a warm up and cool down. ------------------ Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)

08-26-2001, 06:26 AM	#13
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	TSB, you mean with depleted liver glycogen stores you will start breaking down muscle tissue for energy while exercising? i thought you will only tap into using protein/muscle, if you work out ANAEROBICALLY with DEPLETED MUSCLE GLYCOGEN STORES and NO GLUCOSE IN YOUR BLOODSTREAM EITHER (depending on the intensity while doing cardio it's more or less a mix of aerobic and anaerobic).

08-26-2001, 08:35 AM	#15
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Training aerobically uses liver glucose (the oxidative phosphorylation mechanism). Training anaerobically uses muscle glucose (anaerobic glycolysis mechanism). It takes quite a while for muscle glucose to deplete...about 3 days with no carbs. So, weight training without carbs wouldn't be too bad, albiet not optimal. But, cardio without carbs is quite bad, because oxidative phosphorylation is a survival mechanism and it catabolizes all available tissue according to survival (fat keeps ya living longer, thus it catabolizes muscle first). ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-26-2001, 05:06 PM	#17
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Wouldn't really make a difference either way. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-26-2001, 05:52 PM	#18
The Rose Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 188	No TSB, I have never been below 10% body fat. Why do you ask?

08-26-2001, 06:12 PM	#19
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Well, I've never had a problem losing fat without cardio until I hit 7-8% bodyfat.... ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-26-2001, 10:30 PM	#20
bharminder Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA Posts: 129	So, if you do cardio you should always eat something an hour or two before?

08-26-2001, 10:46 PM	#21
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Yes. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-27-2001, 04:17 PM	#23
The Rose Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 188	TSB, why do you want to go below 7% bodyfat?

08-27-2001, 05:21 PM	#24
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Why do you care? To get into contest shape, that's why. That's what I'm saying, cytrix. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-28-2001, 08:40 AM	#25
The Rose Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 188	Sorry TSB, I didn't know you were competing!