Training to failure

seabee · 09-11-2005, 09:29 PM

After a warm up set, I always train to failure on the remaining sets (usually 3 sets total per lift). Have for years. My philosophy is very scientific. If I can possibly do another rep, then I do it (or fail trying). Period.

Is there a problem with this?

Seanp156 · 09-11-2005, 09:33 PM

Only from a safety standpoint in my opinion..If you don't have a spotter and you attempt a rep you don't have the strength for, you're in trouble... Also it might be possible to over-extend yourself going to failure all the time. A break here and there is probably necessary, or mix it up with a few weeks of non-failure training.

durk · 09-11-2005, 09:34 PM

not in my book but there are dinks that would say otherwise just as long as your volume isnt to high you should be fine.

Platinum · 09-11-2005, 09:52 PM

I asked this exact same question yesterday in a PM to Mudge. I'll post it up if that's ok Mudge?

Platinum · 09-11-2005, 09:53 PM

Opinions differ on this, but there is a balance between how hard you train and how much volume you do. I used to do low volume, and to failure on almost every set, that is how I like to train rather than 2 hours of pussy weights and no failure.

Some will go to failure on the last set only, no matter the volume. HIT is rather like this, absolute failure through use of statics and negatives, but very very low volume and even training frequency.

I prefer to train hard, if you dont train hard how do you expect to break through sticking points? Someone who doesn't train to failure, I just can't see them getting very far. If the body is not challenged, it has no reason to continue breaking PRs (personal records).

If you feel overtrained then perhaps on every set is too much for you, or you need less overall volume. That is the only risk of constant failure is overtraining.

--------Mudge's reply to me through PM

chris2489 · 09-11-2005, 10:12 PM

Me personally, I like going to failure and then do some forced reps.

Incognegro · 09-11-2005, 10:59 PM

Hit gets r done for me. choose a weight that you cant do more than 6-8. usually i hit a negative on 6.

when i negative at 9 i up the weight.

J

TheCurse · 09-11-2005, 11:00 PM

i prefer to stick to a specific number of reps and increase the weight each set. so if my rep range is 8 and im doing flat barbell, my working sets will go 225, 275, 295.
of course i could do more than 8 with 225, but i save that strength for the next two sets. if i was to go balls to the wall with 225 i might get 15 reps, but then when i get to the heavy weights i will not get the reps i want.

i believe this type of training has triggered the most growth for me.

**P-funk** · 09-12-2005, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCurse

i prefer to stick to a specific number of reps and increase the weight each set. so if my rep range is 8 and im doing flat barbell, my working sets will go 225, 275, 295.
of course i could do more than 8 with 225, but i save that strength for the next two sets. if i was to go balls to the wall with 225 i might get 15 reps, but then when i get to the heavy weights i will not get the reps i want.

i believe this type of training has triggered the most growth for me.

yea, cumulative fatigue works the best for me also.

furion joe · 09-12-2005, 08:58 AM

Training to failure is an optimal way to induce growth. Intensity builds muscle. For myself, it's the best method I've used to get stronger and bigger.

Fujiama · 09-12-2005, 09:04 AM

I do both. Currently I train to failure. But I've trained for a long without failure. There's a special trainings-system called ILB. It's a bit like HST, and works totally without failure. You're increasing weight every week in submaximum rep intervall. It worked pretty good to me. But after training without real failure for a long time, you get bored.

**P-funk** · 09-12-2005, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furion joe

Training to failure is an optimal way to induce growth. Intensity builds muscle. For myself, it's the best method I've used to get stronger and bigger.

muscle grow in response to tension. Intensity is not the only way to increase tension.

**CowPimp** · 09-12-2005, 11:26 AM

Although I wouldn't goto failure all the time unless you follow a very low volume routine, if it works, the it works. However, you may want to implement periods of very low intensity training to prevent overtraining of your central nervous system.

If I do a moderate to high volume routine, then I prefer the cumulative fatigue approach. For example, I find a weight with which I can perform 3 sets of 8 repetitions, but I am failing, or very nearly failing, only on the very last set.

Doublebase · 09-12-2005, 01:23 PM

I follow the same technique as "TheCurse" does. My max is around 225. So I start out with 2 warm-up sets of 135 at 10 reps a piece. Then I slap on 185 and do that 6 times. I could probably do 8-10 reps of that but I save it. After 185 I go to 205 and do that 3 times. Again I could probably do 4 or 5. I then put on 225 and do that 1 to 2 times.

Doublebase · 09-12-2005, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

muscle grow in response to tension. Intensity is not the only way to increase tension.

Can you explain this statement, Funk. I'm a little slow.

**P-funk** · 09-12-2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doublebase

Can you explain this statement, Funk. I'm a little slow.

what do you mean? The statment is pretty cut and dry. Muscle grow in response to tension. that tension does not always have to come in the form of greater intensity. For example, take 100lbs on the bench press and go through the ROM, or even just the eccentric portion, really slow. You are increasing tension without a large amount of weight (intensity). Just like how most BB'ers train.

Doublebase · 09-12-2005, 02:07 PM

so the more weight=more tension=more muslce growth???

**P-funk** · 09-12-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doublebase

so the more weight=more tension=more muslce growth???

sure, it could.

but I was saying:

slower reps= more tension= muscle growth

Squaggleboggin · 09-12-2005, 02:33 PM

I've never trained to failure and I get great results. I always have a set number of sets and reps and weights for each exercise before my workout. If I complete it, I add weight for the next time. If I feel like I have the energy to add more weight right then and there, I do it. I only do 3 sets of 2, so it really doesn't take much time to add the weight and do a couple more reps. That's the beauty of low volume, high intensity training.

dAMvN · 09-12-2005, 03:32 PM

I think thats kinda cool. i personaly do what curse does trya nd add weight each time and hit a ceartin amount of reps. but if you like going to failure each time thats pretty dope. I heard that if you hit a heavy weight 4-6 times that makes you get stronger. i dont know i just read this somewhere maybe someone can back it up.

Tough Old Man · 09-12-2005, 03:47 PM

I'm currently using Dogg Crapp training and everything except for Deads and Squats, bent over rows and T-bar rows are done to absolute failure.

**CowPimp** · 09-12-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dAMvN

I think thats kinda cool. i personaly do what curse does trya nd add weight each time and hit a ceartin amount of reps. but if you like going to failure each time thats pretty dope. I heard that if you hit a heavy weight 4-6 times that makes you get stronger. i dont know i just read this somewhere maybe someone can back it up.

You can get stronger in any rep range if you use progressive resistance. However, the greater the intensity used (As in a percentage of your 1RM), the greater the neural adaptations and therefore strength gains. That is why beginners gain strength so rapidly. Their bodies are highly inefficient at recuriting muscle fibers. Resistance training changes that quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

I'm currently using Dogg Crapp training and everything except for Deads and Squats, bent over rows and T-bar rows are done to absolute failure.

Aw, squats and deadlifts are my favorite exercises to hit failure on! I can understand why you don't though. Hehe.

Tough Old Man · 09-12-2005, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

You can get stronger in any rep range if you use progressive resistance. However, the greater the intensity used (As in a percentage of your 1RM), the greater the neural adaptations and therefore strength gains. That is why beginners gain strength so rapidly. Their bodies are highly inefficient at recuriting muscle fibers. Resistance training changes that quickly.

Aw, squats and deadlifts are my favorite exercises to hit failure on! I can understand why you don't though. Hehe.

No it's cause Dogg Crapp training uses a rest / pause type of training. You would be susceptible to lower back injuries if you went to failure using his system.

**CowPimp** · 09-12-2005, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

No it's cause Dogg Crapp training uses a rest / pause type of training. You would be susceptible to lower back injuries if you went to failure using his system.

I do rest-pause failure sets with those lifts too. I just make absolutely sure to keep a neutral spine.

myCATpowerlifts · 09-12-2005, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

yea, cumulative fatigue works the best for me also.

Ditto. I never go to failure on every set, at least not on purpose. Seems like overtraining.

TheCurse · 09-13-2005, 03:25 AM

i am looking to fail on the last 1-2 reps of the last 1-2 sets of each exercise i do. usually do 8's or 5's.

durk · 09-13-2005, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

sure, it could.

but I was saying:

slower reps= more tension= muscle growth

people overlook tension and is one of the reasons they dont get anywhere. I go to failure on every set but make sure I emphasise the negative portion of the rep.
I also do suppersets to create more intensity even when I bulking I can actually get better muscle gains with them.

durk · 09-13-2005, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

No it's cause Dogg Crapp training uses a rest / pause type of training. You would be susceptible to lower back injuries if you went to failure using his system.

hey tough Iv always been curious about this doggcrapp guys training you got any links or anything you can e-mail me.

**CowPimp** · 09-13-2005, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by durk

hey tough Iv always been curious about this doggcrapp guys training you got any links or anything you can e-mail me.

http://www.bbforums.com/showthread.ph

09-11-2005, 09:29 PM	#1
seabee Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 165	Training to failure After a warm up set, I always train to failure on the remaining sets (usually 3 sets total per lift). Have for years. My philosophy is very scientific. If I can possibly do another rep, then I do it (or fail trying). Period. Is there a problem with this?
seabee Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 165

09-11-2005, 09:33 PM	#2
Seanp156 Myostatin Whore Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 6,274 Photos: 11	Only from a safety standpoint in my opinion..If you don't have a spotter and you attempt a rep you don't have the strength for, you're in trouble... Also it might be possible to over-extend yourself going to failure all the time. A break here and there is probably necessary, or mix it up with a few weeks of non-failure training.
	My Journal

09-11-2005, 10:12 PM	#6
chris2489 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 115	Me personally, I like going to failure and then do some forced reps.
chris2489 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 115	For the highest quality supplements at the rock bottom lowest prices. You can also customize your own protein powder. Check it out. go to......... trueprotein.com 5% discount code-CHK284 trueproteincanada.com 5% discount code-CHK284

09-11-2005, 11:00 PM	#8
TheCurse Barbell Ninja Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dago Posts: 767 Photos: 6	i prefer to stick to a specific number of reps and increase the weight each set. so if my rep range is 8 and im doing flat barbell, my working sets will go 225, 275, 295. of course i could do more than 8 with 225, but i save that strength for the next two sets. if i was to go balls to the wall with 225 i might get 15 reps, but then when i get to the heavy weights i will not get the reps i want. i believe this type of training has triggered the most growth for me.
	Still Alive.

09-12-2005, 09:04 AM	#11
Fujiama Bavarian machine Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Germany/Munich Posts: 62	I do both. Currently I train to failure. But I've trained for a long without failure. There's a special trainings-system called ILB. It's a bit like HST, and works totally without failure. You're increasing weight every week in submaximum rep intervall. It worked pretty good to me. But after training without real failure for a long time, you get bored.
	http://www.muscle-labor.net/fujiama/yankees.jpg

09-11-2005, 09:34 PM	#3
durk Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 326	not in my book but there are dinks that would say otherwise just as long as your volume isnt to high you should be fine.

09-11-2005, 09:52 PM	#4
Platinum Resident Stoner Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 2,244	I asked this exact same question yesterday in a PM to Mudge. I'll post it up if that's ok Mudge?

09-11-2005, 09:53 PM	#5
Platinum Resident Stoner Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 2,244	Opinions differ on this, but there is a balance between how hard you train and how much volume you do. I used to do low volume, and to failure on almost every set, that is how I like to train rather than 2 hours of pussy weights and no failure. Some will go to failure on the last set only, no matter the volume. HIT is rather like this, absolute failure through use of statics and negatives, but very very low volume and even training frequency. I prefer to train hard, if you dont train hard how do you expect to break through sticking points? Someone who doesn't train to failure, I just can't see them getting very far. If the body is not challenged, it has no reason to continue breaking PRs (personal records). If you feel overtrained then perhaps on every set is too much for you, or you need less overall volume. That is the only risk of constant failure is overtraining. --------Mudge's reply to me through PM

09-11-2005, 10:59 PM	#7
Incognegro SFR Bike Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: South FL Posts: 360	Hit gets r done for me. choose a weight that you cant do more than 6-8. usually i hit a negative on 6. when i negative at 9 i up the weight. J

09-12-2005, 08:58 AM	#10
furion joe Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: next level Posts: 215	Training to failure is an optimal way to induce growth. Intensity builds muscle. For myself, it's the best method I've used to get stronger and bigger.

09-12-2005, 11:26 AM	#13
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	Although I wouldn't goto failure all the time unless you follow a very low volume routine, if it works, the it works. However, you may want to implement periods of very low intensity training to prevent overtraining of your central nervous system. If I do a moderate to high volume routine, then I prefer the cumulative fatigue approach. For example, I find a weight with which I can perform 3 sets of 8 repetitions, but I am failing, or very nearly failing, only on the very last set.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

09-12-2005, 01:23 PM	#14
Doublebase Lightweight, Ya Buddy! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philly Posts: 6,633	I follow the same technique as "TheCurse" does. My max is around 225. So I start out with 2 warm-up sets of 135 at 10 reps a piece. Then I slap on 185 and do that 6 times. I could probably do 8-10 reps of that but I save it. After 185 I go to 205 and do that 3 times. Again I could probably do 4 or 5. I then put on 225 and do that 1 to 2 times.

09-12-2005, 02:07 PM	#17
Doublebase Lightweight, Ya Buddy! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philly Posts: 6,633	so the more weight=more tension=more muslce growth???

09-12-2005, 02:33 PM	#19
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	I've never trained to failure and I get great results. I always have a set number of sets and reps and weights for each exercise before my workout. If I complete it, I add weight for the next time. If I feel like I have the energy to add more weight right then and there, I do it. I only do 3 sets of 2, so it really doesn't take much time to add the weight and do a couple more reps. That's the beauty of low volume, high intensity training.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

09-12-2005, 03:32 PM	#20
dAMvN Go Bench... Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 310 Photos: 1	I think thats kinda cool. i personaly do what curse does trya nd add weight each time and hit a ceartin amount of reps. but if you like going to failure each time thats pretty dope. I heard that if you hit a heavy weight 4-6 times that makes you get stronger. i dont know i just read this somewhere maybe someone can back it up.
	Age: 19

09-12-2005, 03:47 PM	#21
Tough Old Man Canine club CEO Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: baja calif, Mexico Posts: 6,933 Photos: 1	I'm currently using Dogg Crapp training and everything except for Deads and Squats, bent over rows and T-bar rows are done to absolute failure.

09-13-2005, 03:25 AM	#26
TheCurse Barbell Ninja Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dago Posts: 767 Photos: 6	i am looking to fail on the last 1-2 reps of the last 1-2 sets of each exercise i do. usually do 8's or 5's.
	Still Alive.