Designing a Split Routine

**CowPimp** · 09-11-2005, 10:11 PM

As a follow up to my post on full body routines, I figured I would also write something about split routines that I could link up to when people are asking questions about how to improve their routine, or designing one from scratch. I am directing this post toward natural trainees. I am also directing these routines toward bodybuilders. There are a few guidelines I think most people should adhere to when designing a split routine:

Don't train more than 2 consecutive days without taking a day off.

Try to keep the lifting portion of your workout to an hour or less.

Take a week off every 3 months or so, or implement planned deloading phases.

A general rule of thumb is to perform 2-4 sets of each exercise, although I suggest consulting my guide to designing routines (Guide To Designing A Routine) for more information on this topic.

Do at least one freeweight movement for push movements, pull movements, and leg exercises. Do more if at all possible.

In general, you should workout larger muscles first. As well, perform heavier compound movements first.

Rep range should primarily hang in the 6-12 range. However, going higher or lower on occasion is certainly a good idea. If you also value strength, then journey into the 3-6 range more frequently. Conversely, if you also value endurance, then go in the 15+ range more frequently.

Try to balance your pressing and pulling movements. Also, try to balance your quad-dominant and hamstring-dominant lower body exercises.

2 day split examples:
Upper - Lower

(Full Body Push - Pull) Quads, Chest, Anterior & Lateral Delts, Triceps, Abs - Hamstrings, Back, Posterior Delts, Biceps, Abs

3 day split examples:
Week A: Upper - Lower - Upper / Week B: Lower - Upper - Lower

(Push - Pull - Legs) Chest, Anterior & Lateral Delts, Triceps - Back, Posterior Delts, Biceps - Legs, Calves, Abs

(Upper Horizontal - Upper Vertical - Legs) Chest, Back Thickness, Biceps - Back Width, Anterior & Lateral Delts, Triceps - Legs, Calves, Abs

4 day split examples:
Lower - Upper - Lower - Upper

Chest - Back - Legs - Delts, Arms, Abs

Week A: Push - Pull - Legs - Push / Week B: Pull - Legs - Push - Pull / Week C: Legs - Push - Pull - Legs

As you can see, there is a wide variety of viable splits, and it should be no problem to find one that fits your schedule. As long as you follow the general guidelines I laid out, or something close to them that affords you full recovery, then you can cram muscle groups together virtually however you please. The split doesn't even have to be based around a calendar week if you don't want to do it that way.

Here is a template to help you decide what exercises to choose for each bodypart:

Legs:
Pick 2+ lower body push movements. Examples: Back squats, front squats, zercher squats, split squats, leg press, hack squats, etc.

Pick 2+ lower body pull movements. Examples: Deadlifts, stiff-legged deadlifts, Romanian deadlifts, good mornings, glute ham raises, leg curls, etc.

Pick 1+ calf movements. Examples: Standing calf raises, one-legged DB calf raises, donkey calf raises, seated calf raises, etc. (Note: If you only choose one movement, make sure it is one where your legs are straight so both heads are fully activated)

Back:
Pick 2+ horizontal pull movements. Examples: Bent rows, Yates' rows, one-arm DB rows, cable rows, etc.

Pick 2+ vertical pull movements. Examples: Pullups, chinups, pulldowns, etc.

(Optional) Pick 1+ upper/mid trap movements. Examples: Shrugs, machine shrugs, Kelso shrugs, incline DB shrugs, etc.

Chest:
Pick 2+ horizontal push movements. Examples: Bench press, decline press, incline press (< 45 degrees), etc.

(Optional) Pick 1+ isolation movements. Examples: Flys, decline flys, cable crossovers, etc.

Shoulders:
Pick 2+ vertical push movements. Examples: Military press, DB press, Arnold press, incline press (45+ degrees), etc.

Pick 1+ posterior delt/external rotation movements. Examples: Face pulls, external rotations, cuban presses, etc.

(Optional) Pick 1+ lateral delt movements. Examples: Upright rows, lateral raises, cable lateral raises, etc.

Arms:
Pick 1+ tricep movements. Examples: Dips, CG bench press, overhead DB extensions, skullcrushers, Tate presses, etc.

Pick 1+ bicep movements. Examples: CG chinups, curls, hammer curls, incline DB curls, etc.

(Optional) Pick 1+ forearm movements. Examples: Static holds, gorilla hangs, wrist curls, etc.

Abs:
Pick 1+ stability movements. Examples: Planks, medicine ball planks, stability ball planks, ab fallouts, etc.

Pick 1+ rotational movements. Examples: Wood chops, reverse wood chops, kneeling chops, medicine ball chops, etc.

(Optional) Pick 1+ oblique movements. Examples: Side bends, Saxon side bends, suitcase deadlifts, etc.

Once again, these are general guidelines. You may customize these routines however you please. If you have bodyparts that are weaker and/or smaller, then you can add some additional work at the expense of your strong points to insure balance. If your body has exceptional recovery abilities, then you may be able to get away with some additional volume. If your body has poor recovery ability, then you may need to use an even lower volume. If you know your body responds well to higher repetitions, then stick in this range primarily. The list goes on, but you get the idea.

Beginners:
Although I highly recommend performing a full body routine as a beginner, you can still build a strong base to insure you have a balanced physique and injury free training career with a split routine.

There are a few suggestions I would like to offer. Start with compound freeweight movements only. You can get to more isolation and machine movements as you learn your strong and weak points, but begin by building your physique as a whole so these idiosyncrasies emerge. Furthermore, all the freeweight movements will give your core additional training, which becomes exponentially more important as you progress to heavier weights.

As stolen from my full body post... Work in the 12-15 rep range until you develop your stabilizer muscles and intermuscular coordination skills to the point where you can handle heavier weights. Focus heavily on form. Do a lot of research and watch videos of professionals performing various exercises.

Starting out with the right technique will mean developing proper motor patterns right from the start, which is a Hell of a lot easier than correcting them later.

Well, I hope this offers those who are looking to have a critique of their split routine something to help them be their own critic. As well, I hope this gives beginners a place to start in terms of designing a routine. Please feel free to add anything you think might be beneficial for those using this post a tool.

soxmuscle · 09-11-2005, 10:25 PM

I think these two posts are signature worthy, and will help many. Great work, as usual.

kenwood · 09-11-2005, 10:27 PM

great information

Incognegro · 09-11-2005, 11:15 PM

excellent write up! ::bookmark:::

how about splits where you work a body part aday? i do chest mondays, back tuesdays, shoulders wed, arms thurs, legs, fri. off sat sun. abs everyday cept sun and sat.

what is the problem w/ this split besides the 5x day a week in the gym?

TIA

J

furion joe · 09-12-2005, 09:03 AM

Good job CowPimp. I especially like this part:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

As stolen from my full body post... Work in the 12-15 rep range until you develop your stabilizer muscles and intermuscular coordination skills to the point where you can handle heavier weights. Focus heavily on form. Do a lot of research and watch videos of professionals performing various exercises.

Solid!

**CowPimp** · 09-12-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incognegro

excellent write up! ::bookmark:::

how about splits where you work a body part aday? i do chest mondays, back tuesdays, shoulders wed, arms thurs, legs, fri. off sat sun. abs everyday cept sun and sat.

what is the problem w/ this split besides the 5x day a week in the gym?

TIA

J

If you have found that this produces positive results for yourself, then go right ahead. Like I said, this was meant to be a template and nothing more. Once you learn your body, you learn which guidelines to ignore and which to follow.

I would still suggest sticking a day of rest in the middle of those 5 days as opposed to taking the weekends off, but to each his own. The reason I suggest taking a day off from lifting after 2 days is to allow your body to fully recover from the stress imposed by resistance training. This is a good rule of thumb for the natural trainee, but some can get away with more.

The issue is not so much with allowing your muscles to recuperate. Muscles recover relatively quickly compared to your central nervous system and connective tissues. However, you can also go through periods of overreaching, which is basically the short term version of overtraining, if you follow it with time off from the gym or lower intensity training to allow for a full recovery.

kenwood · 09-12-2005, 07:04 PM

this should be a sticky

squanto · 09-13-2005, 01:02 AM

Great advice fo beginnaz. Mad Props. Shtick dat joint foos.

soxmuscle · 09-29-2005, 05:32 PM

I'm bumping this, If I choose to go this route CP, I need this on the first page atleast for tonight. ;p

kiixp · 11-06-2005, 07:04 PM

i like cows

**P-funk** · 11-06-2005, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiixp

i like cows

mmmooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

**CowPimp** · 11-06-2005, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiixp

i like cows

I like eating cows and drinking their milk. M00T!

Adamjs · 01-08-2006, 02:56 AM

See also:

Designing a routine (Guide To Designing A Routine)
Designin a full body routine (Designing a Full Body Routine)

**P-funk** · 01-08-2006, 01:20 PM

I will drop this hear. This is something I wrote on split routines and periodizing them on another board. Hopefully they will help some people here out also.

Quote:

I am a huge fan of undulating periodization as it not olny is refreshing to the CNS to see different loading schemes but, it also helps you build a good base strength in a variety of rep ranges. After all, optimal strength is being strong in a variety of different platforms.

Some ideas to give you as far as exercise selection. As he said, we could use undulating periodization and select 3 different rep ranges to work from.

So, lets say our loading parametres were as follows:

5 reps x 5 sets rest interval (RI)= 90sec (strength day)
15 reps x 3 sets RI= 30sec (endurance work)
10 reps x 4 sets RI= 60sec (hypertrophy work)

I would select my exercises (breaking them up by movement planes) and use the rep ranges (with their rest intervals) in a cyclical manner.

Upper body day may look like this:

Bench press
cable row
DB sholder press
Wg pulldown
(I guess you could include arms if you want. I usually don't though considering that you are doing all that pushing and pulling two times a week)

So, I would do this workout every mon adn thurs. And move the rep ranges around. Workout 1- 5x5 for all exercises, work out 2- 15x3, workout 3- 10x4, then repeat.

Okay, that is a basic undulating.

You could also do conjugate periodization. That is somethign best explained by Louie Simmons of Westisde barbell powerlifting. You can read the articles of how to set up their template at elitefts.com or westside-barbell.com. Basically he took a lot of ideas from the BLOC countries on training and programing and set up a program that bases the training around a power day (dynamic effort) adn a strength day (max effort).

Another way I might break it up would be like this:

day1- upper horizontal
day2- lower quad dominant
day3- off
day4- upper vertical
day5- lower hamstring (hip) dominant)
day 6 and 7- off

So my exercises selection and rep scheme may look something like this:

day1- upper horizontal
Bench press- 3 reps x 5 sets
bent over BB row- 3reps x 5 sets
DB low incline press (or flyes)- 8 reps x 3 sets
reverse peck deck- 8 reps x 3 sets

day2- lower quad dominant (light hamstring)
back squat (or front squat)- 3 x 5
split squat- 3 x 5
RDL- 8 x 3
leg curl- 8 x 3

etc...you can probably continue the rest of it....

Another way might be a heavy and a light day...

upper 1 (heavy)
bench - 3x3
one arm DB row- 3x3
BB press- 3x3
chin ups- 3x3

upper 2- light
DB bench press- 10 x 4
bent over bilateral DB row- 10x4
single arm DB shoulder press- 10 x 4
pulldown- 10 x 4

and ofcourse you could increase the volume as weeks go on. Use undulating periodization and rotate the rep ranges.

Or, you could do heavy on the vertical stuff and lift on the horizontal stuff one day and then the opposite the other (much like you do heavy on the quad and lighter on the hip one day and then vice versa)

upper1
Standing BB press- 5 reps x 5sets
WG pullup- 5 reps x 5 sets
cable chest press- 10 reps x 4 sets
bent over BB row- 10 reps x 4 sets

etc.....just some basic examples to go off of. You can do a lot of different things. I would probably set up something that shifts the rep ranges around in some sort of three training day cycle.

**CowPimp** · 01-08-2006, 07:55 PM

Thanks for adding that P!

**CowPimp** · 04-14-2006, 05:17 PM

Touched up a few things in here too. Just wanted to make note of it.

mike456 · 06-23-2006, 08:28 PM

IMO you shouldn't even label the exercises by chest,back,arms, ect., but just by upper vertical push, upper horizontal push, upper horizontal pull, upper vertical pull, quad-dominant, hip-dominant, and accessory.

The reason I say this is that under arms/shoulders there are upper vertical/horizontal push and pull, and It would be alot more simple, If you just put them all together in the fashion I suggested above.

**CowPimp** · 06-23-2006, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

IMO you shouldn't even label the exercises by chest,back,arms, ect., but just by upper vertical push, upper horizontal push, upper horizontal pull, upper vertical pull, quad-dominant, hip-dominant, and accessory.

The reason I say this is that under arms/shoulders there are upper vertical/horizontal push and pull, and It would be alot more simple, If you just put them all together in the fashion I suggested above.

I know, but this is a bodybuilding board. Some people are still going to think in terms of body parts regardless.

Using compounds for arm exercises is a great idea, but you just have to maintain balance in the end. Call a CG bench tricep work if you want, but count it as a pressing movement at the same time too.

**Gazhole** · 06-24-2006, 04:07 AM

Great post again CP!

Is the Designing a Full Body a sticky? I cant seem to find it?

woody_16 · 06-24-2006, 04:11 AM

^^^^ http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=60741 (Designing training routines by Cowpimp)

**Gazhole** · 06-24-2006, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody_16

^^^^ http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=60741 (Designing training routines by Cowpimp)

Ah yes.

And i just noticed somebody linked it up there also.

Shit its early.

Cheers

pood · 07-18-2006, 09:41 PM

should I do a beginners workout if I've been off for a while, about 2 years.

**CowPimp** · 07-19-2006, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pood

should I do a beginners workout if I've been off for a while, about 2 years.

I would, yes.

Icy-Dice · 10-03-2006, 07:46 AM

ass kissers

Michael (Dj) · 12-09-2007, 08:20 PM

Brilliant post man thank you. I was having trouble with over training myself and am going to use the information on this thread to design a new one!... Thank you

09-11-2005, 10:11 PM	#1
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,615	Designing a Split Routine As a follow up to my post on full body routines, I figured I would also write something about split routines that I could link up to when people are asking questions about how to improve their routine, or designing one from scratch. I am directing this post toward natural trainees. I am also directing these routines toward bodybuilders. There are a few guidelines I think most people should adhere to when designing a split routine: Don't train more than 2 consecutive days without taking a day off. Try to keep the lifting portion of your workout to an hour or less. Take a week off every 3 months or so, or implement planned deloading phases. A general rule of thumb is to perform 2-4 sets of each exercise, although I suggest consulting my guide to designing routines (Guide To Designing A Routine) for more information on this topic. Do at least one freeweight movement for push movements, pull movements, and leg exercises. Do more if at all possible. In general, you should workout larger muscles first. As well, perform heavier compound movements first. Rep range should primarily hang in the 6-12 range. However, going higher or lower on occasion is certainly a good idea. If you also value strength, then journey into the 3-6 range more frequently. Conversely, if you also value endurance, then go in the 15+ range more frequently. Try to balance your pressing and pulling movements. Also, try to balance your quad-dominant and hamstring-dominant lower body exercises. 2 day split examples: Upper - Lower (Full Body Push - Pull) Quads, Chest, Anterior & Lateral Delts, Triceps, Abs - Hamstrings, Back, Posterior Delts, Biceps, Abs 3 day split examples: Week A: Upper - Lower - Upper / Week B: Lower - Upper - Lower (Push - Pull - Legs) Chest, Anterior & Lateral Delts, Triceps - Back, Posterior Delts, Biceps - Legs, Calves, Abs (Upper Horizontal - Upper Vertical - Legs) Chest, Back Thickness, Biceps - Back Width, Anterior & Lateral Delts, Triceps - Legs, Calves, Abs 4 day split examples: Lower - Upper - Lower - Upper Chest - Back - Legs - Delts, Arms, Abs Week A: Push - Pull - Legs - Push / Week B: Pull - Legs - Push - Pull / Week C: Legs - Push - Pull - Legs As you can see, there is a wide variety of viable splits, and it should be no problem to find one that fits your schedule. As long as you follow the general guidelines I laid out, or something close to them that affords you full recovery, then you can cram muscle groups together virtually however you please. The split doesn't even have to be based around a calendar week if you don't want to do it that way. Here is a template to help you decide what exercises to choose for each bodypart: Legs: Pick 2+ lower body push movements. Examples: Back squats, front squats, zercher squats, split squats, leg press, hack squats, etc. Pick 2+ lower body pull movements. Examples: Deadlifts, stiff-legged deadlifts, Romanian deadlifts, good mornings, glute ham raises, leg curls, etc. Pick 1+ calf movements. Examples: Standing calf raises, one-legged DB calf raises, donkey calf raises, seated calf raises, etc. (Note: If you only choose one movement, make sure it is one where your legs are straight so both heads are fully activated) Back: Pick 2+ horizontal pull movements. Examples: Bent rows, Yates' rows, one-arm DB rows, cable rows, etc. Pick 2+ vertical pull movements. Examples: Pullups, chinups, pulldowns, etc. (Optional) Pick 1+ upper/mid trap movements. Examples: Shrugs, machine shrugs, Kelso shrugs, incline DB shrugs, etc. Chest: Pick 2+ horizontal push movements. Examples: Bench press, decline press, incline press (< 45 degrees), etc. (Optional) Pick 1+ isolation movements. Examples: Flys, decline flys, cable crossovers, etc. Shoulders: Pick 2+ vertical push movements. Examples: Military press, DB press, Arnold press, incline press (45+ degrees), etc. Pick 1+ posterior delt/external rotation movements. Examples: Face pulls, external rotations, cuban presses, etc. (Optional) Pick 1+ lateral delt movements. Examples: Upright rows, lateral raises, cable lateral raises, etc. Arms: Pick 1+ tricep movements. Examples: Dips, CG bench press, overhead DB extensions, skullcrushers, Tate presses, etc. Pick 1+ bicep movements. Examples: CG chinups, curls, hammer curls, incline DB curls, etc. (Optional) Pick 1+ forearm movements. Examples: Static holds, gorilla hangs, wrist curls, etc. Abs: Pick 1+ stability movements. Examples: Planks, medicine ball planks, stability ball planks, ab fallouts, etc. Pick 1+ rotational movements. Examples: Wood chops, reverse wood chops, kneeling chops, medicine ball chops, etc. (Optional) Pick 1+ oblique movements. Examples: Side bends, Saxon side bends, suitcase deadlifts, etc. Once again, these are general guidelines. You may customize these routines however you please. If you have bodyparts that are weaker and/or smaller, then you can add some additional work at the expense of your strong points to insure balance. If your body has exceptional recovery abilities, then you may be able to get away with some additional volume. If your body has poor recovery ability, then you may need to use an even lower volume. If you know your body responds well to higher repetitions, then stick in this range primarily. The list goes on, but you get the idea. Beginners: Although I highly recommend performing a full body routine as a beginner, you can still build a strong base to insure you have a balanced physique and injury free training career with a split routine. There are a few suggestions I would like to offer. Start with compound freeweight movements only. You can get to more isolation and machine movements as you learn your strong and weak points, but begin by building your physique as a whole so these idiosyncrasies emerge. Furthermore, all the freeweight movements will give your core additional training, which becomes exponentially more important as you progress to heavier weights. As stolen from my full body post... Work in the 12-15 rep range until you develop your stabilizer muscles and intermuscular coordination skills to the point where you can handle heavier weights. Focus heavily on form. Do a lot of research and watch videos of professionals performing various exercises. Starting out with the right technique will mean developing proper motor patterns right from the start, which is a Hell of a lot easier than correcting them later. Well, I hope this offers those who are looking to have a critique of their split routine something to help them be their own critic. As well, I hope this gives beginners a place to start in terms of designing a routine. Please feel free to add anything you think might be beneficial for those using this post a tool. The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... Belligerent Bovine badass YouTube Videos Last edited by CowPimp : 02-22-2007 at 09:32 AM.

09-11-2005, 10:25 PM	#2
soxmuscle do work son Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: I will eat your face Posts: 10,045 Photos: 10	I think these two posts are signature worthy, and will help many. Great work, as usual. Age: 20 \| Height: 5'7" \| Weight: 150 lbs \| Penis: 12 inches

09-29-2005, 05:32 PM	#9
soxmuscle do work son Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: I will eat your face Posts: 10,045 Photos: 10	I'm bumping this, If I choose to go this route CP, I need this on the first page atleast for tonight. ;p Age: 20 \| Height: 5'7" \| Weight: 150 lbs \| Penis: 12 inches

01-08-2006, 02:56 AM	#13
Adamjs Adamjs Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 264	See also: Designing a routine (Guide To Designing A Routine) Designin a full body routine (Designing a Full Body Routine) ____________________________________________ Restless soul, enjoy your youth. Like Muhammad. Hits the truth. Can't escape from the common rule - if you hate something don't you do it too.

01-08-2006, 07:55 PM	#15
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,615	Thanks for adding that P! The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... Belligerent Bovine badass YouTube Videos

09-11-2005, 10:27 PM	#3
kenwood Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,877 Photos: 1	great information

09-11-2005, 11:15 PM	#4
Incognegro SFR Bike Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: South FL Posts: 360	excellent write up! ::bookmark::: how about splits where you work a body part aday? i do chest mondays, back tuesdays, shoulders wed, arms thurs, legs, fri. off sat sun. abs everyday cept sun and sat. what is the problem w/ this split besides the 5x day a week in the gym? TIA J

09-12-2005, 07:04 PM	#7
kenwood Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,877 Photos: 1	this should be a sticky

09-13-2005, 01:02 AM	#8
squanto Fitness Celebrity Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cheese Cottage Posts: 1,471	Great advice fo beginnaz. Mad Props. Shtick dat joint foos.

11-06-2005, 07:04 PM	#10
kiixp Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 23	i like cows

04-14-2006, 05:17 PM	#16
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,615	Touched up a few things in here too. Just wanted to make note of it. The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... Belligerent Bovine badass YouTube Videos

06-23-2006, 08:28 PM	#17
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,294	IMO you shouldn't even label the exercises by chest,back,arms, ect., but just by upper vertical push, upper horizontal push, upper horizontal pull, upper vertical pull, quad-dominant, hip-dominant, and accessory. The reason I say this is that under arms/shoulders there are upper vertical/horizontal push and pull, and It would be alot more simple, If you just put them all together in the fashion I suggested above. Journal

06-24-2006, 04:07 AM	#19
Gazhole iwillmakeyousmelltheglove Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 7,999 Photos: 19	Great post again CP! Is the Designing a Full Body a sticky? I cant seem to find it? http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 13/11/09 ***READ THIS FOR TRAINING INFO:*** http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/99879-articles-ironmagazineforums-members.html If you want to win the fight, say "I BELIEVE".

06-24-2006, 04:11 AM	#20
woody_16 Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 15	^^^^ http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=60741 (Designing training routines by Cowpimp)

07-18-2006, 09:41 PM	#22
pood Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 166	should I do a beginners workout if I've been off for a while, about 2 years. ASDF!

10-03-2006, 07:46 AM	#24
Icy-Dice Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 81 Photos: 2	ass kissers "What dont kill you can onl make you stronger"

12-09-2007, 08:20 PM	#25
Michael (Dj) Beginner Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 77 Photos: 5	Brilliant post man thank you. I was having trouble with over training myself and am going to use the information on this thread to design a new one!... Thank you Live For The Burn! Myspace Address

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