Bigger ,Faster, Stronger

Maki Riddington · 08-27-2001, 02:41 PM

Moving a weight quickly during a set equals more force which is a basis for one to get stronger which can lead to hypertrophy of the muscle.

Are quick tempos safe, are they any worse than slow tempos?

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Exercise, my drug of choice

**Prince** · 08-27-2001, 09:02 PM

well, using an explosive movement would activate more fast twitch muscle fibers.

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

Maki Riddington · 08-28-2001, 06:26 AM

Why?

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Exercise, my drug of choice

**Prince** · 08-28-2001, 07:34 AM

Fast twitch muscle fibers are activated more by "explosive" movements.

here is a "scientific writing":
(sorry, but I'm doing a copy/paste!)

Fast twitch fibers are specialized for extremely short powerful bursts of activity. They have a very limited supply of mitochondria. Mitochondria can process glucose in a couple of ways. If it has oxygen the mitochondria will produce a very large amount of energy, but it takes a relatively long time. If there is no oxygen present the mitochondria will still process glucose, but the energy yield is very little. However, this second process is extremely fast. Fast twitch mitochondria sacrifice efficiency for speed. Fast twitch fibers also do not have the abundant amounts of myoglobin making oxygen available to the mitochondria. These type of muscle fibers fire extremely rapidly, but they don’t fire for very long. They get tired very quickly. Fast twitch muscles also have a large capacity for keeping calcium ions available. In the slow twitch muscles, the speed that they contract is limited in part by the availability of calcium ions. Because they can’t pig out on the ions all at once like the fast twitch muscles can, the slow twitch muscles can maintain contraction about five times longer than fast twitch.

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

Scotty the Body · 08-28-2001, 09:15 AM

I could see it being dangerous if one weren't warmed up properly. Might be more likely to tear a muscle.

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Just another day in the gutter

cytrix · 08-28-2001, 03:32 PM

TSB might correct me on this one, but i believe that it depends on the amount of weight being used, which fibers will be activated. if you use a heavy weight for lower reps, done for example in a kind of slow 2/4 speed, you still be activating fast twitch fibers. on the other hand, if you do very light weights for very high reps (lets say for example 50) in a fast 1/1 speed, you would be activating mostly only slow twitch fibers (endurance fibers).

TheSupremeBeing · 08-28-2001, 04:02 PM

Fast movements (regardless of load) recruit fast twitch fibers.

Most of the time you should lift explosively, IMO.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

cytrix · 08-28-2001, 04:29 PM

TSB, so if i go fast and light i will be using fast twitch fibers, just not as many, right? and when using heavy weight i will be activating most or much more of them, depending on the weight, correct?

explosively is what, 1 second up? or up to 2 sec up? and what about the lowering part, slow and controlled is better for muscle growth stimulation, right? i usually do 2/2. sometimes also slower on the eccentric part.

TheSupremeBeing · 08-28-2001, 05:18 PM

If you use a light weight and lift it explosively you will recruit high threshold fast twitch fibers (IIB). The thing is, you can only do this for a short period of time before fatigue sets in, so you have to do a lot of low rep, light weight, explosive sets (like, 8x2-3). This is known as "Compensatory acceleration training" (CAT) and it's been popularized quite a bit by Westside barbell. They idea is to train your nervous systewm to recruit more fast twitch fibers so when you go to lift a maximum load you can lift more (the acceleration training doesn't actually stimulate the fibers, just recruit them).

Explosively as in as fast as you possibly can. For CAT you lower quickly as well.

For general lifting, explosive up, and slow/controlled down, about a 3-1-1 tempo.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

**gopro** · 08-29-2001, 05:16 AM

The human body is an amazing adaptive machine.Although there are 2 basic fiber types,fast/slow twitch,there are also a couple of types that have properties of both.For complete development we must stimulate all of our fibers and to do this we must vary the type of stimulus we impose on our muscles.Training must be consistent,progressive,and varied.We must utilize different rep schemes,rep tempos,TUT's(time under tensions),as well as varied exercises,training loads and volumes.In other words,don't train only one way,or you will limit your progress.

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symmetry over size

Maki Riddington · 08-29-2001, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cytrix:
TSB, so if i go fast and light i will be using fast twitch fibers, just not as many, right?

*** TSB you never asnswered his question.
I'm curious what the answer is as well.

------------------
Exercise, my drug of choice

TheSupremeBeing · 08-29-2001, 01:08 PM

I thought I did, guess not.

The whole point in it is to "teach" the nervous system to recruit MORE fast twitch fibers. So, I would say that statement is wrong, and actually the opposite.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

cytrix · 08-29-2001, 05:38 PM

what i was saying is that you will always stimulate fast twitch fibers when lifting, only less when the weight is lite, and more if it's heavy. i don't think i'm wrong about that!

TheSupremeBeing · 08-29-2001, 07:25 PM

They may be recruited, but not stimulated.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Maki Riddington · 08-29-2001, 11:29 PM

Well said GoPro.

------------------
Exercise, my drug of choice

TheSupremeBeing · 08-29-2001, 11:57 PM

I'd just like to say that while training should be varied, it should only be varied when the current stimulus no longer produces results.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

**gopro** · 08-30-2001, 05:12 AM

If a fiber is recruited,wouldn't you consider it stimulated.If it was not stimulated in some way to "fire" than you will by definition,not have recruited it.

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symmetry over size

TheSupremeBeing · 08-30-2001, 07:55 AM

No, just because a fiber is recruited doesn't mean it's stimulated.

------------------
Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

**Prince** · 08-30-2001, 02:23 PM

------------------
Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

**gopro** · 08-30-2001, 03:15 PM

Supreme,I think you need to give us your definition of "stimulated."Perhaps my problem with your assertion is simply a matter of defining your terms.

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symmetry over size

TheSupremeBeing · 08-30-2001, 09:12 PM

Stimulated as in forced to adapt.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-27-2001, 02:41 PM	#1
Maki Riddington Fat Bastard Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 383	Bigger ,Faster, Stronger Moving a weight quickly during a set equals more force which is a basis for one to get stronger which can lead to hypertrophy of the muscle. Are quick tempos safe, are they any worse than slow tempos? ------------------ Exercise, my drug of choice

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08-27-2001, 09:02 PM	#2
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,980 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	well, using an explosive movement would activate more fast twitch muscle fibers. ------------------ Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

08-28-2001, 06:26 AM	#3
Maki Riddington Fat Bastard Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 383	Why? ------------------ Exercise, my drug of choice

08-28-2001, 07:34 AM	#4
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,980 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	Fast twitch muscle fibers are activated more by "explosive" movements. here is a "scientific writing": (sorry, but I'm doing a copy/paste!) Fast twitch fibers are specialized for extremely short powerful bursts of activity. They have a very limited supply of mitochondria. Mitochondria can process glucose in a couple of ways. If it has oxygen the mitochondria will produce a very large amount of energy, but it takes a relatively long time. If there is no oxygen present the mitochondria will still process glucose, but the energy yield is very little. However, this second process is extremely fast. Fast twitch mitochondria sacrifice efficiency for speed. Fast twitch fibers also do not have the abundant amounts of myoglobin making oxygen available to the mitochondria. These type of muscle fibers fire extremely rapidly, but they don’t fire for very long. They get tired very quickly. Fast twitch muscles also have a large capacity for keeping calcium ions available. In the slow twitch muscles, the speed that they contract is limited in part by the availability of calcium ions. Because they can’t pig out on the ions all at once like the fast twitch muscles can, the slow twitch muscles can maintain contraction about five times longer than fast twitch. ------------------ Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

08-28-2001, 09:15 AM	#5
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	I could see it being dangerous if one weren't warmed up properly. Might be more likely to tear a muscle. ------------------ Just another day in the gutter

08-28-2001, 03:32 PM	#6
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	TSB might correct me on this one, but i believe that it depends on the amount of weight being used, which fibers will be activated. if you use a heavy weight for lower reps, done for example in a kind of slow 2/4 speed, you still be activating fast twitch fibers. on the other hand, if you do very light weights for very high reps (lets say for example 50) in a fast 1/1 speed, you would be activating mostly only slow twitch fibers (endurance fibers).

08-28-2001, 04:02 PM	#7
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Fast movements (regardless of load) recruit fast twitch fibers. Most of the time you should lift explosively, IMO. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-28-2001, 04:29 PM	#8
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	TSB, so if i go fast and light i will be using fast twitch fibers, just not as many, right? and when using heavy weight i will be activating most or much more of them, depending on the weight, correct? explosively is what, 1 second up? or up to 2 sec up? and what about the lowering part, slow and controlled is better for muscle growth stimulation, right? i usually do 2/2. sometimes also slower on the eccentric part.

08-28-2001, 05:18 PM	#9
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	If you use a light weight and lift it explosively you will recruit high threshold fast twitch fibers (IIB). The thing is, you can only do this for a short period of time before fatigue sets in, so you have to do a lot of low rep, light weight, explosive sets (like, 8x2-3). This is known as "Compensatory acceleration training" (CAT) and it's been popularized quite a bit by Westside barbell. They idea is to train your nervous systewm to recruit more fast twitch fibers so when you go to lift a maximum load you can lift more (the acceleration training doesn't actually stimulate the fibers, just recruit them). Explosively as in as fast as you possibly can. For CAT you lower quickly as well. For general lifting, explosive up, and slow/controlled down, about a 3-1-1 tempo. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-29-2001, 05:16 AM	#10
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,521	The human body is an amazing adaptive machine.Although there are 2 basic fiber types,fast/slow twitch,there are also a couple of types that have properties of both.For complete development we must stimulate all of our fibers and to do this we must vary the type of stimulus we impose on our muscles.Training must be consistent,progressive,and varied.We must utilize different rep schemes,rep tempos,TUT's(time under tensions),as well as varied exercises,training loads and volumes.In other words,don't train only one way,or you will limit your progress. ------------------ symmetry over size

08-29-2001, 01:08 PM	#12
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	I thought I did, guess not. The whole point in it is to "teach" the nervous system to recruit MORE fast twitch fibers. So, I would say that statement is wrong, and actually the opposite. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-29-2001, 05:38 PM	#13
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	what i was saying is that you will always stimulate fast twitch fibers when lifting, only less when the weight is lite, and more if it's heavy. i don't think i'm wrong about that!

08-29-2001, 07:25 PM	#14
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	They may be recruited, but not stimulated. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-29-2001, 11:29 PM	#15
Maki Riddington Fat Bastard Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 383	Well said GoPro. ------------------ Exercise, my drug of choice

08-29-2001, 11:57 PM	#16
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	I'd just like to say that while training should be varied, it should only be varied when the current stimulus no longer produces results. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-30-2001, 05:12 AM	#17
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,521	If a fiber is recruited,wouldn't you consider it stimulated.If it was not stimulated in some way to "fire" than you will by definition,not have recruited it. ------------------ symmetry over size

08-30-2001, 07:55 AM	#18
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	No, just because a fiber is recruited doesn't mean it's stimulated. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-30-2001, 02:23 PM	#19
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,980 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	------------------ Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

08-30-2001, 03:15 PM	#20
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,521	Supreme,I think you need to give us your definition of "stimulated."Perhaps my problem with your assertion is simply a matter of defining your terms. ------------------ symmetry over size

08-30-2001, 09:12 PM	#21
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Stimulated as in forced to adapt. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.