Breakdowns

The Rose · 08-27-2001, 05:24 PM

During workouts, I regularly perform breakdowns (lifting a heavy weight several times and then immediately moving to a lighter weight within the same set). I'm wondering if they are just a waste of time or beneficial. Can anybody comment? Should I just do another set instead?

**Prince** · 08-27-2001, 08:53 PM

Those are called "drop sets", I use them once in awhile. No, they are not a waste of time.

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

bharminder · 08-27-2001, 10:02 PM

What's the purpose of them? Same question goes for supersets I guess..I mean if you dont give yourmuscles enough time to rest, you wouldn't lift as much weight as you could've and you wouldnt lift to your full potential..so its bad...but thats obviously wrong..so can someone fill me in here?

w8lifter · 08-28-2001, 05:51 AM

To totally fatigue the muscle.

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**Prince** · 08-28-2001, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by w8lifter:
To totally fatigue the muscle.

That's about it...without getting scientific.

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

Scotty the Body · 08-28-2001, 09:11 AM

I would still try to keep the total number of your drop set to 10-12 or less.
So I would go with a weight I could get like 5 reps then drop to a weight I could get another 5 with.

Works best with DB for quick change.

I would also only do it once in awhile.

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Just another day in the gutter

The Rose · 08-28-2001, 09:45 AM

Is just doing an extra regular set more beneficial?

Scotty the Body · 08-28-2001, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Rose:
Is just doing an extra regular set more beneficial?

Try them some time Rose, they're great every now and then.
I mostly use them for Bi workouts.

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Just another day in the gutter

TheSupremeBeing · 08-28-2001, 03:05 PM

If you were to "totally fatigue" a muscle you wouldn't be able to move.

They are ok when you need to save time, but doing the extra set is better because of the increased load.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

cytrix · 08-28-2001, 03:18 PM

dropsets are a high intensity method, which you can do every once in a while, to shock your muscles. they can easily lead to overtraining if overdone. if you do them, cut back some on your total sets performed. a drop is not equal to another regular set though, it's an extension on one set.

**Prince** · 08-28-2001, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:
They are ok when you need to save time, but doing the extra set is better because of the increased load.

Blah, Blah, Blah....

There are many training principles, drop sets, super sets, giant sets, forced reps, whatever.
There is no way that you, or anyone else can say that you're better off doing another set rather than using a drop set. Training is not that black and white.

I know, now you're going to post some 5 page "scientific" physiology article that is going to prove everyone wrong.

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

TheSupremeBeing · 08-28-2001, 03:57 PM

Nah I'm too tired to do that.

And I'm more aware than you about all the little principles Wieder developed (mostly to sell magazines) and I know exactly what they do.

I can say which ones are better than others, and doing another high-load set is better than a low-load set, IMO.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Maki Riddington · 08-28-2001, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bharminder:
What's the purpose of them? Same question goes for supersets

*** It is known as a sub maximal lifting method. I would say that it is better suited towards someone who is specifically training for muscular endurance. My 2 humble pennies on thsi topic.

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Exercise, my drug of choice

**Prince** · 08-28-2001, 06:38 PM

They are used to try and get a muscle completely fatigued. To recruit all muscle effort & fibers.
They should be used sparingly as a "shock" approach.
Yes, Wieder labeld, defined and published them, but he did not invent them.

I reccommend you try some of these "training principles" and decide for yourself if you like them and/or if you feel that you benefit from them.
No one here is going to be able to answer whether or not they will work well for each individual.

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

TheSupremeBeing · 08-28-2001, 07:14 PM

A drop set does not recruit all fibers. A drop set does not completely fatigue a muscle. "Shocking" a muscle really is completely a myth, and "shocking" the nervous system is not desirable unless progress has stopped if muscle gain is your goal. Go ahead and try them, they are not "bad" per se, but the question was whether or not doing another high-load set was better than doing a drop set, and yes in fact a high-load set is better.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Scotty the Body · 08-29-2001, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:and yes in fact a high-load set is better.

I don't know how you preform your drop sets but when I do them, I use a higher weight then I would doing a normal set, so really, I'm using a higher-load set for 3-5 then a lower load set for another 5.

Doing this now and then has really helped increase the weight I can lift.

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Just another day in the gutter

TheSupremeBeing · 08-29-2001, 09:09 AM

You may be using a higher load than normal on the first set, but the actual drop set is still lower load, if it isn;t then you aren't actually doing a drop set.

Say you do a set of 100lbs on BB curls for 6 reps, then rest a while and do another set of 100lbs for 5 reps. The load is 1100lbs.

If you do a set of 100lbs for 6, then drop down to 70lbs for 4 the load is 880.

So, obviously the 2 sets are higher load than the drop set.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Scotty the Body · 08-29-2001, 09:19 AM

Ok, what I'm saying is I use a weight for the start of my drop sets that I could only get like 5 at most at.
Example, DB curls Drop set:

50x4 switch to 30x5 = 350lb total

Now if I stuck with normal sets, the best I could do for 3 sets is:

40x8 = 320lb total

So you see what I'm saying? I am lifting more on my drop sets because I'm going with a weight taking me to falure at 5 for my first set.

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Just another day in the gutter

TheSupremeBeing · 08-29-2001, 10:04 AM

That post made no sense at all to me.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Scotty the Body · 08-29-2001, 02:45 PM

Would you like me to type it slower?

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Just another day in the gutter

w8lifter · 08-29-2001, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scotty the Body:
Would you like me to type it slower?

LMAO!!!

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TheSupremeBeing · 08-29-2001, 03:00 PM

Nah, just make it make sense foo.

Why can you only get 40x8 for 3 straight sets? Why not do 50x4 on those sets, too?

That has nothing to do with the drop set.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

<FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 1 time by TheSupremeBeing on 08-29-2001 at 04:01 PM]</font>

Scotty the Body · 08-29-2001, 03:36 PM

We could go on and on and on couldn't we.

What I said I did was:
50 for 4 reps (that's to failure) then drop to 30 for another 5 reps (that's to failure) for one set.

I don't and wouldn't recommend doing drop sets for every workout.

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Just another day in the gutter

TheSupremeBeing · 08-29-2001, 04:04 PM

Ah, so you're counting 2 sets as one set with the drop set. Well, it's not correct to consider 2 sets one set even if the time between sets is small. So, using your example the drop set is actually 2 sets and the load is 350lbs, if you actually just did 2 sets of 50x4 the load is 400 making the two straight sets superior.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Scotty the Body · 08-29-2001, 04:46 PM

No, I'm counting it as one set, done 3 times.
Ok, here goes AGAIN:

50X4 THEN 30X5 FOR ONE SET No break in between except the couple seconds it takes to drop the 50's and grab the 30's

I'll do that 3 times or 3 sets.

On a normal day I'll do 40 for 8 reps 3 sets.
AGAIN, i never said the drop sets were better and I don't do them all the time.

Am I the only one that does DROP SETS this way?

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Just another day in the gutter

TheSupremeBeing · 08-29-2001, 04:50 PM

That's exactly how I understood. That is 2 sets, not one.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

cytrix · 08-29-2001, 05:29 PM

this ain't going nowhere!

w8lifter · 08-30-2001, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scotty the Body:
No, I'm counting it as one set, done 3 times.
Ok, here goes AGAIN:

50X4 THEN 30X5 FOR ONE SET No break in between except the couple seconds it takes to drop the 50's and grab the 30's

I'll do that 3 times or 3 sets.

On a normal day I'll do 40 for 8 reps 3 sets.
AGAIN, i never said the drop sets were better and I don't do them all the time.

Am I the only one that does DROP SETS this way?

No! That is exactly how I do my drop sets. What TSB is talking about sounds like two separate sets. I don't see any benefit of doing it the way you say TSB. You're talking 3 sets w/ rest in between, each set using a lesser load. How would that help at all?

When I do them, it's mostly w/ rope pressdowns, Do 4 reps @ 90, 4@80, 4@70, then rest and repeat. That's what I always considered a drop set.

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Behind every great man is his BUTT

My FitPit

TheSupremeBeing · 08-30-2001, 08:55 AM

No you illiterate mofo's.

I do drop sets the same way you guys do, but it is 2 sets, no one. You do one set, drop the weight and then without rest do another set. Count them, 2 sets. Not one, but two.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-27-2001, 05:24 PM	#1
The Rose Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 188	Breakdowns During workouts, I regularly perform breakdowns (lifting a heavy weight several times and then immediately moving to a lighter weight within the same set). I'm wondering if they are just a waste of time or beneficial. Can anybody comment? Should I just do another set instead?

08-27-2001, 08:53 PM	#2
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,981 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	Those are called "drop sets", I use them once in awhile. No, they are not a waste of time. ------------------ Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

08-27-2001, 10:02 PM	#3
bharminder Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA Posts: 129	What's the purpose of them? Same question goes for supersets I guess..I mean if you dont give yourmuscles enough time to rest, you wouldn't lift as much weight as you could've and you wouldnt lift to your full potential..so its bad...but thats obviously wrong..so can someone fill me in here?

08-28-2001, 05:51 AM	#4
w8lifter Join Date: May 2001 Location: Around..... Posts: 14,964	To totally fatigue the muscle. ------------------ Behind every great man is his BUTT My FitPit

08-28-2001, 09:11 AM	#6
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	I would still try to keep the total number of your drop set to 10-12 or less. So I would go with a weight I could get like 5 reps then drop to a weight I could get another 5 with. Works best with DB for quick change. I would also only do it once in awhile. ------------------ Just another day in the gutter

08-28-2001, 09:45 AM	#7
The Rose Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 188	Is just doing an extra regular set more beneficial?

08-28-2001, 03:05 PM	#9
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	If you were to "totally fatigue" a muscle you wouldn't be able to move. They are ok when you need to save time, but doing the extra set is better because of the increased load. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-28-2001, 03:18 PM	#10
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	dropsets are a high intensity method, which you can do every once in a while, to shock your muscles. they can easily lead to overtraining if overdone. if you do them, cut back some on your total sets performed. a drop is not equal to another regular set though, it's an extension on one set.

08-28-2001, 03:57 PM	#12
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Nah I'm too tired to do that. And I'm more aware than you about all the little principles Wieder developed (mostly to sell magazines) and I know exactly what they do. I can say which ones are better than others, and doing another high-load set is better than a low-load set, IMO. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-28-2001, 06:38 PM	#14
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,981 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	They are used to try and get a muscle completely fatigued. To recruit all muscle effort & fibers. They should be used sparingly as a "shock" approach. Yes, Wieder labeld, defined and published them, but he did not invent them. I reccommend you try some of these "training principles" and decide for yourself if you like them and/or if you feel that you benefit from them. No one here is going to be able to answer whether or not they will work well for each individual. ------------------ Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

08-28-2001, 07:14 PM	#15
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	A drop set does not recruit all fibers. A drop set does not completely fatigue a muscle. "Shocking" a muscle really is completely a myth, and "shocking" the nervous system is not desirable unless progress has stopped if muscle gain is your goal. Go ahead and try them, they are not "bad" per se, but the question was whether or not doing another high-load set was better than doing a drop set, and yes in fact a high-load set is better. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-29-2001, 09:09 AM	#17
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	You may be using a higher load than normal on the first set, but the actual drop set is still lower load, if it isn;t then you aren't actually doing a drop set. Say you do a set of 100lbs on BB curls for 6 reps, then rest a while and do another set of 100lbs for 5 reps. The load is 1100lbs. If you do a set of 100lbs for 6, then drop down to 70lbs for 4 the load is 880. So, obviously the 2 sets are higher load than the drop set. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-29-2001, 09:19 AM	#18
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	Ok, what I'm saying is I use a weight for the start of my drop sets that I could only get like 5 at most at. Example, DB curls Drop set: 50x4 switch to 30x5 = 350lb total Now if I stuck with normal sets, the best I could do for 3 sets is: 40x8 = 320lb total So you see what I'm saying? I am lifting more on my drop sets because I'm going with a weight taking me to falure at 5 for my first set. ------------------ Just another day in the gutter

08-29-2001, 10:04 AM	#19
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	That post made no sense at all to me. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-29-2001, 02:45 PM	#20
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	Would you like me to type it slower? ------------------ Just another day in the gutter

08-29-2001, 03:00 PM	#22
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Nah, just make it make sense foo. Why can you only get 40x8 for 3 straight sets? Why not do 50x4 on those sets, too? That has nothing to do with the drop set. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers. <FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 1 time by TheSupremeBeing on 08-29-2001 at 04:01 PM]</font>

08-29-2001, 03:36 PM	#23
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	We could go on and on and on couldn't we. What I said I did was: 50 for 4 reps (that's to failure) then drop to 30 for another 5 reps (that's to failure) for one set. I don't and wouldn't recommend doing drop sets for every workout. ------------------ Just another day in the gutter

08-29-2001, 04:04 PM	#24
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Ah, so you're counting 2 sets as one set with the drop set. Well, it's not correct to consider 2 sets one set even if the time between sets is small. So, using your example the drop set is actually 2 sets and the load is 350lbs, if you actually just did 2 sets of 50x4 the load is 400 making the two straight sets superior. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-29-2001, 04:46 PM	#25
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	No, I'm counting it as one set, done 3 times. Ok, here goes AGAIN: 50X4 THEN 30X5 FOR ONE SET No break in between except the couple seconds it takes to drop the 50's and grab the 30's I'll do that 3 times or 3 sets. On a normal day I'll do 40 for 8 reps 3 sets. AGAIN, i never said the drop sets were better and I don't do them all the time. Am I the only one that does DROP SETS this way? ------------------ Just another day in the gutter

08-29-2001, 04:50 PM	#26
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	That's exactly how I understood. That is 2 sets, not one. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-29-2001, 05:29 PM	#27
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	this ain't going nowhere!

08-30-2001, 08:55 AM	#29
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	No you illiterate mofo's. I do drop sets the same way you guys do, but it is 2 sets, no one. You do one set, drop the weight and then without rest do another set. Count them, 2 sets. Not one, but two. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.