squats

**MuscleM4n** · 09-21-2005, 05:46 AM

is it best to go ATG in all sets

or

just to start ATG and go parralel with max weight in later sets

Normally i do the 2nd option but think i will try all sets with ATG and drop the weight in a bit.

**P-funk** · 09-21-2005, 06:21 AM

Atg Imo

**The Monkey Man** · 09-21-2005, 06:48 AM

Depends what you are doing with them...

If you are just building size, I would train to just below parallel...

But if you are looking for flexibility and power for sports
I would go ATG

**PreMier** · 09-21-2005, 08:21 AM

ATG here.

**PreMier** · 09-21-2005, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by The Monkey Man

Depends what you are doing with them...

If you are just building size, I would train to just below parallel...

But if you are looking for flexibility and power for sports
I would go ATG

Why wouldnt you go ATG for size? That doesnt make sense to me..

**The Monkey Man** · 09-21-2005, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by PreMier

Why wouldnt you go ATG for size? That doesnt make sense to me..

Maybe you are focusing the quads, maybe you want to save your joints,
maybe you are lazy like Markus ruhl, maybe your girlfriend complains about atg's

**PreMier** · 09-21-2005, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by The Monkey Man

Maybe you are focusing the quads, maybe you want to save your joints,
maybe you are lazy like Markus ruhl, maybe your girlfriend complains about atg's

What do you mean save your joints? ATG squats arent bad.. and you will get plenty of quad activation when doing them.

**GymJamo** · 09-21-2005, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by PreMier

What do you mean save your joints? ATG squats arent bad.. and you will get plenty of quad activation when doing them.

shush

**Decker** · 09-21-2005, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by PreMier

What do you mean save your joints? ATG squats arent bad.. and you will get plenty of quad activation when doing them.

Great point. I agree w/ this view. I prefer ATG squats hands down.

**PreMier** · 09-21-2005, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by GymJamo

shush

Can you prove me wrong? Didnt think so.

**CowPimp** · 09-21-2005, 09:58 AM

I go below parallel. I squat inside a non-adjustable rack at my gym, so I go until the bar is right about to smack the rack. Hell, I smack it on occasion.

I always advocate the fullest ROM you can handle without pain or extreme discomfort. Why not? What's the point save for strength specificity in that part of the lift?

**The Monkey Man** · 09-21-2005, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by PreMier

Can you prove me wrong? Didnt think so.

Boy... You're just a big toughguy now that you have that new pistol, aren't you -

**devildog88** · 09-21-2005, 10:00 AM

When You do ATG squats it forces your patella tendon to strech in an un-natural fashion with an inordenant amount of weight. Ultimately you are damaging the joint unless you decrease the amount of weight that you use, however if you do that it defeats the purpose of adding mass with the overload principle.

**GymJamo** · 09-21-2005, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by devildog88

When You do ATG squats it forces your patella tendon to strech in an un-natural fashion with an inordenant amount of weight. Ultimately you are damaging the joint unless you decrease the amount of weight that you use, however if you do that it defeats the purpose of adding mass with the overload principle.

Take that premier!!!

**GymJamo** · 09-21-2005, 10:03 AM

Hold on i am waiting for it!!!! here it comes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

....

**CowPimp** · 09-21-2005, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by devildog88

When You do ATG squats it forces your patella tendon to strech in an un-natural fashion with an inordenant amount of weight. Ultimately you are damaging the joint unless you decrease the amount of weight that you use, however if you do that it defeats the purpose of adding mass with the overload principle.

I have heard of a study done on this, but it only showed that people bending over for hours a day suffered problems as a result. You are nowhere near doing that for hours a day by squatting a few times per week.

**P-funk** · 09-21-2005, 10:46 AM

All i am going to say is that if you are doing full squats (ATG) make sure that you are strong IN THAT ROM! Heavy weight, light weight...These words get thrown around but in reality they mean nothing as they are different for everyone (what is heavy to one is light to another). If you are squating all the way make sure that your form is sound and you have the neccessary strength to go through that range of motion with the given weight. If that means lowing the weight from what you have been quarter squating and building back up over a longer period of time so be it. Do what you gotta do.

**The Monkey Man** · 09-21-2005, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I have heard of a study done on this, but it only showed that people bending over for hours a day suffered problems as a result. You are nowhere near doing that for hours a day by squatting a few times per week.

Yes but if for some reason you are going to be predisposed to having problems,
(for whatever reason)
why would you think repetitve motions would supercede the strain of lifting
something say, twice your BW for 1/2 as many repetitions -

**MuscleM4n** · 09-21-2005, 11:42 AM

here is how my squats went today:

ATG squats:
Set 1 - 44lbs x 10.
Set 2 - 134lbs x 10.
Set 3 - 184lbs x 8.
Set 4 - 184lbs x 8.

It was hard letting the ego go but i did it.

**P-funk** · 09-21-2005, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleM4n

here is how my squats went today:

ATG squats:
Set 1 - 44lbs x 10.
Set 2 - 134lbs x 10.
Set 3 - 184lbs x 8.
Set 4 - 184lbs x 8.

It was hard letting the ego go but i did it.

letting the ego go is always the toughest part. But, once you build up your strength through that ROM you will quickly be back squating what you were before.

**The Monkey Man** · 09-21-2005, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleM4n

here is how my squats went today:

ATG squats:
Set 1 - 44lbs x 10.
Set 2 - 134lbs x 10.
Set 3 - 184lbs x 8.
Set 4 - 184lbs x 8.

It was hard letting the ego go but i did it.

- How about those fronts next??? -

**juggernaut2005** · 09-21-2005, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleM4n

is it best to go ATG in all sets

or

just to start ATG and go parralel with max weight in later sets

Normally i do the 2nd option but think i will try all sets with ATG and drop the weight in a bit.

What is ATG? at the ground? all terrain gravy?

**Dale Mabry** · 09-21-2005, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by devildog88

When You do ATG squats it forces your patella tendon to strech in an un-natural fashion with an inordenant amount of weight. Ultimately you are damaging the joint unless you decrease the amount of weight that you use, however if you do that it defeats the purpose of adding mass with the overload principle.

For someone who has never deep squatted before, this would be correct. However, if you progressively loaded the deep squat over a long period of time, all connective tissue would adapt as well as the muscles and they could handle the high tension developed with deep squats with heavy weight. Coincidentally, the amount of force required to create enough tension to snap a tendon is prolly on the order of 10x the amount you can parallel squat. Most tears come at the musculo-tendon junction or in the muscle itself. Training the range of motion and progressively increasing resistance will strengthen this union. Of course if you never train the full range of motion you will not expect to get such an adaptation since the stress on the area is always the same.

So what does this mean? Stop being a pussy and go all the way to the ground. There are studies showing that using a range of motion now will allow you to keep it when you are old and worthless.

**devildog88** · 09-21-2005, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

For someone who has never deep squatted before, this would be correct. However, if you progressively loaded the deep squat over a long period of time, all connective tissue would adapt as well as the muscles and they could handle the high tension developed with deep squats with heavy weight. Coincidentally, the amount of force required to create enough tension to snap a tendon is prolly on the order of 10x the amount you can parallel squat. Most tears come at the musculo-tendon junction or in the muscle itself. Training the range of motion and progressively increasing resistance will strengthen this union. Of course if you never train the full range of motion you will not expect to get such an adaptation since the stress on the area is always the same.

So what does this mean? Stop being a pussy and go all the way to the ground. There are studies showing that using a range of motion now will allow you to keep it when you are old and worthless.

i was just waiting for someone to call me on my bullshit! I have no freaking idea what it will do to your patella, I was just spewing shit! It is good we have educated people Like Dale to correct the crap that can be taken as fact!

**Dale Mabry** · 09-21-2005, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by devildog88

i was just waiting for someone to call me on my bullshit! I have no freaking idea what it will do to your patella, I was just spewing shit! It is good we have educated people Like Dale to correct the crap that can be taken as fact!

As bad as it was that you did that, my computer has a fresh coat of water from me spitting it all over the screen from laughing so hard. I have a fucked up sense of humor I guess.

**devildog88** · 09-21-2005, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

As bad as it was that you did that, my computer has a fresh coat of water from me spitting it all over the screen from laughing so hard. I have a fucked up sense of humor I guess.

As do I !!!!

**P-funk** · 09-21-2005, 01:06 PM

Didn't you once get in an argument here defending your position on the safety of squatting to parallel? Don't you train high school kids on a football team or something like that? I can't remeber.

**devildog88** · 09-21-2005, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by P-funk

Didn't you once get in an argument here defending your position on the safety of squatting to parallel? Don't you train high school kids on a football team or something like that? I can't remeber.

Yes, I am a high school football coach. I still think that Highschool kids can hurt themselves if they try to parrallel squat without the proper guidence and experience. But I have loosened up a little as I do see the benifits from it! I myself like doing ATG squats but I am an old man who can't lift much!

**Dale Mabry** · 09-21-2005, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by devildog88

I still think that Highschool kids can hurt themselves if they try to parrallel squat without the proper guidence and experience.

I agree with this 100%. You should have seen the weight room in my high school when I was a yougng pup.

**Squaggleboggin** · 09-21-2005, 03:44 PM

I just did front squats for the first time. I could feel my stabilizers working overtime on that one! The only down side is that I don't think my elbows were quite as high as they should be and the bones in front of my neck (part of the shoulder I'm guessing) are in significant pain from the bar resting there. Otherwise, I think it'll be a fun exercise in general.

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