Thread: Transition phase between hypertrophy help

depends on what you are sdoing in your hypertrophy phase? what is the intensity like? volume?

Why not try periodization...try severl weeks of power/strength

Increase the intensity over a period of time from 80-95% of your 1RM on the three main lifts...increase intra/inter muscular efficiency and train your CNS to handle heavy weights...if you can handle heavy weights, you'll lift more in your hypertrophy phase therefore creating larger cross-sectional fibers... in other words...BIGGGGGGEEERRRRR

this hypertrophy micro cycle is a 60/70/80 split 6 week cycle so this week I am doing 80% of my 1rm and then take a week and back into the hyper cycle i should be doing a 3 week strength cycle in another 7 weeks to shock my cns. Thanks for the pointers

hold the horses there partna...you need to be a bit clearer in your explanations...

60/70/80

why would you go as low as 60 percent of your 1rm unless you were training for speed in powerlifting or olympic lifts?

why go below 80 percent on your working sets...70 percent sounds like a 2nd or 3rd warm up set...

same advice i gave other people.....check articles on periodization www.t-nation.com i believe is the site

many people really enjoy gopro's P/RR/S routine...its a periodized routine i believe linear and many people enjoy it and it will work!!! Read up on that...I personally enjoy taking out shock all together and focusing on power and adding rep range once in awhile that would be my call...but also check out other periodization after you try his routine...the other forms of periodization are very involved and you may easily be confused as i was when i first started researching...you should have seen the workout schemes i've designed, so complicated only for me to go back to the basics before you can get complicated...

This is based on Bompa's periodiziation schemes. Transition phases called for deloading/active rest.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

This is based on Bompa's periodiziation schemes. Transition phases called for deloading/active rest.

yea most transition phases are characteristic of a deloading or active rest phase with either a decrease in volume or intensity or both.

active rest should not last more than a week in one's planning cycle either...and 60/70 shouldn't be factored into a regular training schedule, those percentages are way low even for a bodybuilder/structrual strength gainer...distan runner or marathon runners would probably be lifting 70 percent and up...

Originally Posted by tenxyearsxgone

active rest should not last more than a week in one's planning cycle either...and 60/70 shouldn't be factored into a regular training schedule, those percentages are way low even for a bodybuilder/structrual strength gainer...distan runner or marathon runners would probably be lifting 70 percent and up...

I agree about the active rest.

60-70% isn't awful, especially if it is the start of a hypertrophy phase. 60% is around a 15RM and 70% is a 12RM. Probably something like 80-70% (8-12RM) would be best but i have seen recomendations going as low as even 50% for certain phases of hypertrophy training. Training for muscular endurance isn't that bad. Optimal strength means to be strong in a variety of rep ranges.

what purpose does lifting for 12-15-20 reps do for you? It is not a sarcastic comment. I never understood...for example arnold always said what type of strength do you want? He elated to the fact that jack la lanne or however you spelled it could do many push ups than arnold, however arnold could press 450lbs many more times than jack...relative strength...

i mean a long distance runner wouldn't focus on sprints and vice versa... like i said show me a bodybuilder or powerlifter who lifts in those prescribed rep ranges that aren't using them as a dynamic, speed workout to increase their bar movement in a given lift... never listen to what bodybuilders say/write in magazines...if you watch dorian, cutler, ronnie, johnnie O train etc...they never go above 8-12 in their working sets and many times are hitting 4-6 in their workouts...ronnie does doubles in squats/deads....

Originally Posted by tenxyearsxgone

what purpose does lifting for 12-15-20 reps do for you? It is not a sarcastic comment. I never understood...for example arnold always said what type of strength do you want? He elated to the fact that jack la lanne or however you spelled it could do many push ups than arnold, however arnold could press 450lbs many more times than jack...relative strength...

i mean a long distance runner wouldn't focus on sprints and vice versa... like i said show me a bodybuilder or powerlifter who lifts in those prescribed rep ranges that aren't using them as a dynamic, speed workout to increase their bar movement in a given lift... never listen to what bodybuilders say/write in magazines...if you watch dorian, cutler, ronnie, johnnie O train etc...they never go above 8-12 in their working sets and many times are hitting 4-6 in their workouts...ronnie does doubles in squats/deads....

Like I said, the higher rep ranges provides you with optimal strength.....


arnold knew jack shit about training...ever read his book?

a sprinter does do longer runs to help with recovry and enhance build endurance. they don't do a ton of them like a marathon runner but it is and should be still cycled into their training program.


Powerlifters that use a linear model of periodization will start with 15 rep sets and gradually decrease that until they are working near their max lifts as the weeks go by. Dr. Leistner trains his lifters like that. I believe Ed Coan does a similiar model. Not all power lifters do speed work.

Distances runners work on spritning to incrase their lactic threshold and to allow them to have that sprint power at the end of the race when they need it. If you don't train it it wont be there when you reach for it.

I beilieve i have watched a video of Jay train where he talked about doing 12-15 rep sets (blood volume training or whatever he called it).

Speed strength, endurance strength, maximum strength, anerobic strength, explosive strength, power, repetitive strength....these are not the same...you need to train each to have a good grasp of optimal strength.

What does working in a lower intensity do for you? Increases muscle endurace, gives your joints a break (hence the reason I said cycle it in) and provides you with something different to work on.

Like you said up above about the push ups and aronld. just because you can do a lot of push up doesn't mean you can bench 450 and the other way around. However, if i train to be able to do both wont I be a more well rounded individual? More athletic?

I might be wrong here but I don't think I am. Hypertrophy occurs by a combination of physcial exaustion and as much as wieght posibble to allow the movement at the same time. Doing Low reps with high wieght will certanly give you more strength but not provide the longterm stress needed for hypeplasia. So combine the 10 to 12 reptioing with 4 sets and only one minute rest between causes an interval trainning effect where your muscles have time to clean themselves enough to give you the ability to move the weight around but not enough time to fully replinishes them selves so on a cellular level your muscle fibers think they just did one set 40 reps at 80% of your one 1rm in one set. when in realit it was 4 sets.

Durring race seasons I do one set of 8-10 reps on a 12 movement pushpull/superset full body routine makeing sure it is enough weight to reach failure in the 8-10 range and i get hella strong but my physical size go's way down because of my gentic structure (I am a special circumstance due to my muscle and boen density). I am gonna check out that stuff on the web page you showed me though knowledge is power.

OH yeah almost forgot the orignal queston my hypertrophy phase starts with 70%.

tenx out of curiosity how long have you been seriously lifting? Just wondering?

hypertrophy training is mostly charecterized by high volume (ie 10-12 reps x 4 sets) and low rest intervals (ie <60sec). in studies this has been the showen to induce the most amount of muscular hypertrophy. Muscles respond best to tension and the time that the muscle is kept under that tension (TUT). Hence the reason for low rest intervals and higher volume.

Can you get muscular on lower reps? Sure, you can. A lot of growth has to do with how you eat and making sure your diet is suffecient enough to sustain the hypertrophy you are looking for.

Originally Posted by P-funk

yea most transition phases are characteristic of a deloading or active rest phase with either a decrease in volume or intensity or both.

How long would you suggest such a deloading/active rest transition phase be done for?

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

How long would you suggest such a deloading/active rest transition phase be done for?

I do it for a week.

Ok there is so much information here to sift through and seemingly endless contradictions, however the latter statements p-funk i agree with...i am confused with the way in which the original poster writes. I was assuming he was doing several weeks at 60%...if you are only using it as we both agreed, an "active recovery," then I totally agree with it.

slider, the type of hypertroph you are referring to, i believe, is what we call an increase in contractile fluids or basically a swelling of the muscle caused by a lengthened TUT as p-funk mentioned...you want to increase the cross-sectional fibers of the muscle therefore leaving a longer impact on the size and density of the muscle.

Another topic i've mentioned in several posts is genetic make up. Many of us are characterized by different dominations of muscle fibers, basically some of us are dominated by slow twich and others, fast twitch.

Fast twitch = enlarged/recruited by high intensity/heavier weights/lower reps, miniman TUT, explosive reps which are controlled

slow twitch = enlarged/recruited by moderate int/moderate wt./mod reps, higher TUT, controlled movements, 60-90 second rest

P.S. what sport are you playing, i thought you mentioned something about that...thanks

Originally Posted by tenxyearsxgone

Ok there is so much information here to sift through and seemingly endless contradictions, however the latter statements p-funk i agree with...i am confused with the way in which the original poster writes. I was assuming he was doing several weeks at 60%...if you are only using it as we both agreed, an "active recovery," then I totally agree with it.

I could be wrong but from the way i understood it I though he was saying he did a week at 60%, a week at 70% and a week at 80% since he wrote it like this "60/70/80".

yeah p-funk...either way he'll be cycling back to 60% three weeks after his first week, which in my opnion is too much volume at such a low intensity...

one week for each intensity doesn't seem efficient either,,,your nowhere near the g.a.s. principle and you'd benefit from getting stronger at a certain intensity before moving higher...

i wouldn't go lower than 75 for hypertrophy...keep 60 for active rest only...

break it up into 3 week blocks

75%
80%
85
90


3 weeks each

1 week of 60 percent...and repeat

that looks okay. nothing wrong with linear periodization if you are going for hypertrophy. If strength is your goal I would try something else to try and peak for a specific event.

The HST protocol calls for 2 weeks at your 15RM, 2 weeks at your 10RM, 2 weeks at your 5RM, and 2 weeks of negatives. Your 15RM is about 60% of your 1RM, a 10RM is about 75%, and the 5RM is about 85%.

Also, the beginning of each two week microcycle is characterized by usage of the sub-maximal effort and is gradually acclimated at the end of the 2 weeks to attempt a new repetition maximum in the specified range.

His routine would be fairly similar, and HST has certainly proven it's worth to many.

I think HST is a fad...and honestly i will never see the significance of doing working sets/weeks with 15RM and low intensity unless its a dynamic day for bench/squat...I need data to show me otherwise, and the data i've read definately does not advocate any of that...I mean I know a lot of the protocals i use are used by powerlifters/bodybuilders....do any of them use "HST"? u know?

Originally Posted by tenxyearsxgone

I think HST is a fad...and honestly i will never see the significance of doing working sets/weeks with 15RM and low intensity unless its a dynamic day for bench/squat...I need data to show me otherwise, and the data i've read definately does not advocate any of that...I mean I know a lot of the protocals i use are used by powerlifters/bodybuilders....do any of them use "HST"? u know?

I still see some good reults from 15 rep sets.

Also, just because you don't see hypertrophy with that rep range doesn't mean others wont. A lot of peoepl see great leg growth with 20 rep squats (and I don't mean breathing reps).

Also, you are kind of contridicting yourself by saying this about 15 reps and then saying talking about fiber type training. If you are a type I dominant individual then training that strength may not be such a bad idea.

I think an important part of my workout was also left out I test for 1rm's every 3 weeks and adjut my wieght accordingly like this


1rmtest
60
70
80
1rm test
60
70
80

I know it is working cuz i have been 15 pounds on my 1rm's in 6 weeks and I look alot bigger so the effinacy of the work out isnt the issue it is working I am not overtrainning or hurting my self. I was just trying to figure out an appropriate 1 week transition phase. I thought like 40-50% week or just body wieght stuff like pushups, sissysquats, pullups stuff like that

Originally Posted by tenxyearsxgone

I think HST is a fad...and honestly i will never see the significance of doing working sets/weeks with 15RM and low intensity unless its a dynamic day for bench/squat...I need data to show me otherwise, and the data i've read definately does not advocate any of that...I mean I know a lot of the protocals i use are used by powerlifters/bodybuilders....do any of them use "HST"? u know?

I really don't think it's a fad. I didn't like the program all that much personally, but I have read enough people's positive results to know that it does work for some. Mudge comes to mind as one person.

Westside calls for doing some exercises for high repetitions like that as well. If you have ever read any of Dave Tate's PL Toolbox articles, you will see that he recommends fairly low intensity work on a multitude of movements.

Some of the reason behind doing sets at such a low intensity is to promote increased capillary density. This makes for improved blood flow, which is always a good thing. On top of that, it is certainly a good idea to give your central nervous system a break.

As long as one adheres to the principle of progressive overload, gains should be visible at this intensity, at least in certain individuals for certain muscles.

I doubt Dave Tate would ever reccomend blocked weeks where all your lifts were in a 15 rep range...and if i'm wrong i'll eat my words with dog shit

cow, its usually reccomended for dynamic days on ONE lift..and it serves its purpose as SPEED...no WSB workout has people doing 15 reps of deads, 15 reps of JM Presses etc....

There has to be relevance...why do weeks of 15 reps i still don't have an answer

Originally Posted by tenxyearsxgone

I doubt Dave Tate would ever reccomend blocked weeks where all your lifts were in a 15 rep range...and if i'm wrong i'll eat my words with dog shit

cow, its usually reccomended for dynamic days on ONE lift..and it serves its purpose as SPEED...no WSB workout has people doing 15 reps of deads, 15 reps of JM Presses etc....

There has to be relevance...why do weeks of 15 reps i still don't have an answer

I read an articel were dave tate says that he does flyes and cable flyes for 15-20 reps during the repetition portion of his dynamic effort days because it allows for a better stretch for his flexability.

Just because you don't do it doesn't mean that it is not effective.

Also, how do you know that this kis is a powerlifter or wants to be? Like I said optimal strength is being strong in every rep range. Just because you may know the ins adn outs of the westside BB template doesn't mean that it is the best for overal athletic performance. It is another tool, concept and idea to have in the book. You seem pretty smart about this stuff but don't be so close minded.

Dr. Ken trains some of the top NFL players at his home in long island. A lot of stuff they do is one set to failure of things like squats or deadlifts for 20reps. Seems to have worked for those guys really well.

One set to failure is a great way to build strength fast. It takes all the subcontious restrained out. It is amaizing what they are learning with computers now a days it is a real fun time to be in the sport physiology field.