Thread: Help Please..

If you don't post your routine, your diet, etc. then there really is no way to determine if you can "get huge by next football season."

Do that and I'd love to help.

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

If you don't post your routine, your diet, etc. then there really is no way to determine if you can "get huge by next football season."

Do that and I'd love to help.

Alright well for my diet im getting around a 1500 - 2000 Calorie intake a day.

my routine is a full body routine..

im going more so for power

Monday..

Squats..3 x 6-8
Bench Press..3 x 6-8
Rows..3 x 6-8
Standing Calf Raises..3 x 6-8
Incline BP..3 x 6-8
Leg Extensions..3 x 6-8
Shrugs...3 x 6-8
Barbell Curls...3 x 6-8
Dips.. 3 x 6-8
Behind The Back barbell Curls.. 3 x 6-8

Continue
Wensday
and
Friday


I just got back into lifting actually and i really dont enjoy doing full body workouts and im trying to develop a split by monday.. any suggestions on a split? Westside? P/RR/S? 5x5 Hit?

Thanks



**
Supps..
AST Multi Pro 32X
BN's BULK CEE (off days)
Omega Thunder CEE (Lifting Days)
Flax Oil
Whey

Well first and foremost, your caloric intake is putrid. I would almost double your caloric intake. That's not even maintenance calories youre getting there. 2500-3000 at the least is where you should be at if your looking to quote unquote get huge.

Now as for a routine, your's really isn't that bad, and although I don't respond all that well with full body routines, many people do. Let's see here.

Originally Posted by wastedours

Alright well for my diet im getting around a 1500 - 2000 Calorie intake a day.

my routine is a full body routine..

im going more so for power

Monday..

Squats..3 x 6-8
Bench Press..3 x 6-8
Rows..3 x 6-8
Standing Calf Raises..3 x 6-8
Incline BP..3 x 6-8
Leg Extensions..3 x 6-8
Shrugs...3 x 6-8
Barbell Curls...3 x 6-8
Dips.. 3 x 6-8
Behind The Back barbell Curls.. 3 x 6-8

Continue
Wensday
and
Friday


I just got back into lifting actually and i really dont enjoy doing full body workouts and im trying to develop a split by monday.. any suggestions on a split? Westside? P/RR/S? 5x5 Hit?

Thanks



**
Supps..
AST Multi Pro 32X
BN's BULK CEE (off days)
Omega Thunder CEE (Lifting Days)
Flax Oil
Whey

if you want size you gotta eat. what you're eating is what i would eat if i was a woman.

as far as your workout, you're doing too much bb'er crap IMO. If you're working for strength and power you want to stay to the hard and heavy exercises. You're doing 30 sets a workout which is a bit too much IMO, you should probably work harder with less moves. Too much anterior work, and its all in the horizontal plane. for a better routine check out Cowpimp's threads about making full body routines, i don't have a link handy but if you use the search you'll find no doubt about it.

basically what you want to remember is there are two ways of pressing, vertical (overhead press) and horizontal (benchpress). there are three ways to work your pull muscles horizontal rows (bent over rows), vertical rows (pull ups) and in the sagittal (or maybe frontal i forget which is which) plane (stuff like pullovers). set up two different workouts, one focusing on vertical stuff for your upper body while focusing on the posterior chain for you lower body (deads, GM's etc) and another workout where you focus on horizontal stuff for you upper body and quad dominant pressing like squats etc for you lower body. I would definitely include tricep work over bicep work as they are way more functional of a muscle especially for football.

Now as far as progressing your workout, if i'm not mistaken you have to build general fitness in the off season via strength work, cardio etc and as the season gets closer you want to start working on power and skill specific stuff like drills and such.

hope i helped a bit, if you need some more info just post up!

Thanks for alll the feedback guys you both really helped me im going to figure out a routine then post it up for you to look at if its kool? and give you a sample of my new diet..Thanks Alot.

Ditch the full body, for size I suggest something like this:

a push/pull/legs split

aim to barely get the 5th one each set, rest 2-3 mins and repeat set.

Push Day:

Flat bench 5x5
Incline DB 5x5
Military Press 5x5
Close Grip bench 5x5
Weighted Dips 5x5

Pull
T-bar/1 arm row 5x5
upright row 5x5
Wide Grip pull up 5x5
CG chin up 5x5
Hammer Curl 5x5

Legs
Squat 3x5
drop weight to 10 rep max and do a 1x20 using rest pause (anyone on here can help with this technique
Deads 5x5
Calves see squat

I do my leg day last because I need at least 3 days of nothing to recooperate. Do no more then 2 days back to back without resting. Eat like a bear, meat and veggies. Shoot for 175-200 g's of protein.

If you are going to follow somethign like this split, do not do more then 30 sets you will over train.

Eat/Intensity/Rest in that order.

You should add at least 1-2 lbs per week per exercise, I've been adding 5+ on this routine. You should also strive to keep your body weight gains between 1-3 lbs per week, no more. I have some HS kids doing this routine now with great success, I feel so strongly about it I will tell everyone I know.

Oh, and listen to what the people on here tell you. However, DO NOT take bits and pieces that you like and incorporate them into your routine, they are laid out into splits and routines for a reason. Mixing and matching is a mistake. Try different things and see what works for you but don't try them at the same time.

train total body. As a newbie to lifting it will give you what you want. Lower your volume also.

What school in Cleveland are you playing for? St. Ignatious? St. Ed's? Any of the heavy hitters?

P,

What is the benefit of training full body 3x a week, I know you can get away with it as a newb. Is it really the best just because you can get away with it or is there another reason? I know you can lift anything starting out and see results but by starting off with enough rest, proper diet, and intensity wouldn't you see better results? If he wants to get bigger I see FB as a waste of valuable time, summer is approaching.

I can see the benefit of getting in the gym 3x a week and learing the exercises through more repetition before loading up but outside of that I don't see it as productive. You wouldn't train FB 3x a week and you are very advanced, why should someone just starting out who probably can't recover as quickly be doing it?

Is there some science behind it? I've seen this in just about every book published, is there something that makes it more productive or is it in there just because Ahnold said so.

Originally Posted by benverner

P,

What is the benefit of training full body 3x a week, I know you can get away with it as a newb. Is it really the best just because you can get away with it or is there another reason? I know you can lift anything starting out and see results but by starting off with enough rest, proper diet, and intensity wouldn't you see better results? If he wants to get bigger I see FB as a waste of valuable time, summer is approaching.

I can see the benefit of getting in the gym 3x a week and learing the exercises through more repetition before loading up but outside of that I don't see it as productive. You wouldn't train FB 3x a week and you are very advanced, why should someone just starting out who probably can't recover as quickly be doing it?

Is there some science behind it? I've seen this in just about every book published, is there something that makes it more productive or is it in there just because Ahnold said so.

your analysis of sport specific training is a bit off since it appears that you are advocating primarily hypertrophy specific. While hypertrophy is one of this athletes goals there are other things in play here besides just getting big. Big muscles don't always equal strong muscles. Big muscles have the potential to be strong muscles though if the training is optimal and the neurological connection is there. Gaining weight/muscle will not be a problem for this guy provided he eats enough calories and trains intensly. Especially at his age (high school student) when hormone leves are running wild.

Why total body?

Well, I don't see any problem with split routines. I do like upper/lower splits as well as upper push/pull and leg splits. They can provide you with an increased amount of volume which is beneficial to people who have a greater training history. So, you are partially correct in saying this (total body) is a great split for newbies as it allows them the needed amount of recovery between workouts as well as allows them to focus on learning and training the appropriate lifts. However, even the most advanced athletes can benefit from total body work outs (i know I do) especially if they are training intensly.

Aside from all that the reason why I said total body 3 times a week (and maybe eve only 2 times a week....answer in a second) is because right now he is in season. How can anyone maintain a high volume of training or high intensity of training when there are games to be played and practices to attend? Right now he needs a moderate training volume and moderate intensity load (75-80%). That way he can focus on game time situations while maintaining strength and in this case as a newbie probably even gain strength.

Why else do I like total body for athletes:

1) it trains the whole body. games use your entire body...not just your back or your chest. everything is being worked.

2) you have the option to focus on some core lifts each session as opposed ot an all or nothing approach if you were training everything individually.

3) along with the option of focusing on core lifts you can change the intensity of them to get the desired effect needed out of them (ie strength/power/endurance) aka..conjugate training.

4) 3 times a week is low enough frequency to leave you open to perform agility, plyometric and skill exercises on another day. this is extremely important for an athlete, especially a football player. also, it allows you time between workouts to train flexablility (also important to athletes).



The workout that you gave is not bad except for the fact that it is for an athlete. He doesn't need to be plowing away on 4 rowing movements with all that intensity (5x5) or all those pushing exercises. You are missing his goals entirely and instead just saying "well....you need to get bigger....here do this".

What you need to do is look at what a football player needs to have to be competitive on the field and set up a program that optimally targets those goals in a logical way.

So, what types of things does he need (in no special order):
- speed
- power
- strength
- power endurance
- endurance (depending on the position he is going out for)
- agility
- reactive strength

Did I leave anything out?

Does that help?

You're the man.

In my limited experience (why I asked you) a 5x5 has been best for both size and strength. His primary goal in the post was size ergo my response.

He's only got another two weeks or so in season so I ignored it.

You gave me the science, thanks for that. I'm still not convinced a 3 day full body split is BEST for a newb. There is probably nothing anyone can say to change that. I agree it is useful in some cases, but if you are a 135lb football player size needs to come before boxjumps IMO.

You're still the king.

Kid wants to get big, I told him an effective way to get big. There is a time an place for agility drills, endurance, etc...that is in the summer before the season.

Originally Posted by benverner

You're the man.

In my limited experience (why I asked you) a 5x5 has been best for both size and strength. His primary goal in the post was size ergo my response.

He's only got another two weeks or so in season so I ignored it.

You gave me the science, thanks for that. I'm still not convinced a 3 day full body split is BEST for a newb. There is probably nothing anyone can say to change that. I agree it is useful in some cases, but if you are a 135lb football player size needs to come before boxjumps IMO.

You're still the king.

Kid wants to get big, I told him an effective way to get big. There is a time an place for agility drills, endurance, etc...that is in the summer before the season.

5x5 is the best for strenght gains IMO in most people. I love 5x5. But, not for every exercise. It needs to be saved for those exercises that the greatest strength is required (ie squats, Deadlifts, press, etc.....).

Like I said, size will occur no matter what he does. I didn't say he needs to do box jumps but eventually his program will need to lead him towards explosive dynamic movements as his offseason comes to a close and pre-season starts. His first goal for a few weeks should be hypertrophy.

Also, depending on his position his weight shouldn't be a problem. For example if he puts on 10lbs and is a running back on a JV team (or even returing kickoffs) he could still be great if he is quick and explosive and skilled at those positions and tasks. Athletes come in all shapes and sizes.

fo shizzle!

I need to stop living my life through these kids. I spent far too much time lifting my arse off and and doing sport specific stuff for wrestling and not enough time lifting smart and resting. I could have been a contender!

Originally Posted by P-funk

your analysis of sport specific training is a bit off since it appears that you are advocating primarily hypertrophy specific. While hypertrophy is one of this athletes goals there are other things in play here besides just getting big. Big muscles don't always equal strong muscles. Big muscles have the potential to be strong muscles though if the training is optimal and the neurological connection is there. Gaining weight/muscle will not be a problem for this guy provided he eats enough calories and trains intensly. Especially at his age (high school student) when hormone leves are running wild.

Why total body?

Well, I don't see any problem with split routines. I do like upper/lower splits as well as upper push/pull and leg splits. They can provide you with an increased amount of volume which is beneficial to people who have a greater training history. So, you are partially correct in saying this (total body) is a great split for newbies as it allows them the needed amount of recovery between workouts as well as allows them to focus on learning and training the appropriate lifts. However, even the most advanced athletes can benefit from total body work outs (i know I do) especially if they are training intensly.

Aside from all that the reason why I said total body 3 times a week (and maybe eve only 2 times a week....answer in a second) is because right now he is in season. How can anyone maintain a high volume of training or high intensity of training when there are games to be played and practices to attend? Right now he needs a moderate training volume and moderate intensity load (75-80%). That way he can focus on game time situations while maintaining strength and in this case as a newbie probably even gain strength.

Why else do I like total body for athletes:

1) it trains the whole body. games use your entire body...not just your back or your chest. everything is being worked.

2) you have the option to focus on some core lifts each session as opposed ot an all or nothing approach if you were training everything individually.

3) along with the option of focusing on core lifts you can change the intensity of them to get the desired effect needed out of them (ie strength/power/endurance) aka..conjugate training.

4) 3 times a week is low enough frequency to leave you open to perform agility, plyometric and skill exercises on another day. this is extremely important for an athlete, especially a football player. also, it allows you time between workouts to train flexablility (also important to athletes).



The workout that you gave is not bad except for the fact that it is for an athlete. He doesn't need to be plowing away on 4 rowing movements with all that intensity (5x5) or all those pushing exercises. You are missing his goals entirely and instead just saying "well....you need to get bigger....here do this".

What you need to do is look at what a football player needs to have to be competitive on the field and set up a program that optimally targets those goals in a logical way.

So, what types of things does he need (in no special order):
- speed
- power
- strength
- power endurance
- endurance (depending on the position he is going out for)
- agility
- reactive strength

Did I leave anything out?

Does that help?

I can maintaine a split instead of full body the season just ended . Mayfield HighSchool playing to get into playoffs toamrrow

And it may have helped to tell you all im going to be Offensive Line and i can do 5x5 and i can get into the gym everyday besides saturday and sunday during the week. im not looking for specific sports related routines more so body building.

practice is over and also games so i can now use all my strength in the gym for higher intesity workouts

another thing with the 5x5 is there any other way of getting into the gym more than the 3 days a week i would like to workout 5 outta the 7 days taking wensday off because on wensday do i only have a ride home...i refuse to take the bus and also its good because it drives me to workout and i love it and feel great after it within 1 week i have seen 5lbs+ in my lifts.

a 135 pound offensive lineman? wow, it could be a long season for you guys.

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

a 135 pound offensive lineman? wow, it could be a long season for you guys.

140 lol and ima guard... also im in 9th grade not 12th..

we went 7-2

I created this routine for my freind the other day. I think its pretty good.

Originally Posted by wastedours

140 lol and ima guard... also im in 9th grade not 12th..

we went 7-2

if your going to be a lineman, you're going to have to up those calories by quite a bit.

im trying with the calories and also im taking a look at the routine now

so far im at 2000+ calories and im gonna eat 1-2 more meals to get that 500-1000 more...im really stretchin my stomach

cowpimp, what do you think of the routine i designed?

O-line...squat, squat, squat, squat...you get the picture

Is you do a push pull legs 5x5, there is opportunity to strip out the claves on leg day and put in a calves/core day in the middle. Squats and DL hit your core pretty good so make sure to space them out. Maybe put in a HIIT day or two to keep the blubber down a little. You should be okay with all that time in the gym, but keep an eye on your gains, if they slow down don't assume you are just getting used to working out, look into your rest. You should be able to maintain at least a 2lb incremental increase from workout to workout, other then that something is wrong. Being a newb and 14-15 you should see 5lb gains for a while. That being said, make sure you have the movements down before loading up. I was in your shoes in HS, no ride home so I lifted every day and I over trained like hell, do it smart and you'll shock everyone. No information super highway to tap into, only doing (insert name here)'s workout out of M&F or flex...so stupid.

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

cowpimp, what do you think of the routine i designed?

I'm just curious: For what goals is that routine designed?

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

I'm just curious: For what goals is that routine designed?

Yeah, good question. Is your friend focusing on mass gains? Is he a total beginner?

It looks fine from a general health or bodybuilding standpoint, but it could be better if his goal is strength, power, or sport specific.

im still stuck on finding a "good" mass gaining routine/split

He just finished his senior year golf season and will be playing in college next fall. I designed the routine accordingly, so you could say I was going for significant gains in hypertrophy, strength, and also to help his golf game.