what muscles shouldn't be worked w/other muscles on the same day?

kenwood · 10-27-2005, 06:44 PM

this may be a newbie question but oh well...i've heard all this stuff like you shouldn't do biceps&back on the same day and you shouldn't do chest and shoulders on the same day..same w/chest and triceps on the same day, is any of it true? cause i was wondering if you workout your back&bi's on the sameday wouldn't your bi's be tired (worn out) from doing back before b's? and wouldn't that mean your bi's can't get worked to their fullest extent? samething w/chest and triceps, wouldn't your tri'ss be tired from doin chest?....i'm just wondering all this crap, can someone get this straightened out? for me

themamasan · 10-27-2005, 06:58 PM

I am no expert and got most of my knowledge from the guys on here...but I will tell you what works for me. If you are going to work a large muscle group and a smaller one on the same day, then Back/BI and CHest/Tri are ideal. But I started doing Chest one day, Back one day, Legs one day, Shoulders one day, and then Bi/Tri on one day. I get plenty of rest between workouts, and for the first time in years I am progressing in strength.

kenwood · 10-27-2005, 07:02 PM

so you do this:
mon.chest
tues.back
wed.legs
thurs.shoulders
fri.bi's/tris?
wheres the rest days? except sat&sun.?

kenwood · 10-27-2005, 07:23 PM

anyone else?????????

themamasan · 10-27-2005, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenwood

so you do this:
mon.chest
tues.back
wed.legs
thurs.shoulders
fri.bi's/tris?
wheres the rest days? except sat&sun.?

I usually take a day of rest between chest and back and legs and shoulders. And if I do flat barbell bench or incline barbell press for chest I will combine shoulders with my back day (but just do lateral and front raises..no pushes or presses). That way it gives me 3 rest days. I also take a 5 day break every 3 weeks from doing anything.

kenwood · 10-27-2005, 07:53 PM

**CowPimp** · 10-27-2005, 10:49 PM

That is one of the most tried and true low frequeuncy splits out there. It is the push-pull-legs split. It certainly can be effective. There are all kinds of splits you can try, but I just would avoid mixing back and legs or hitting the same muscles two days in a row. Otherwise you will probably be fine.

I have never understood the argument that you can't work your biceps to the full after doing compound pulling movements. Fatigue is cumulative. It just won't require quite as much isolation work to fully exhaust the muscle.

mr_oo3 · 10-27-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

That is one of the most tried and true low frequeuncy splits out there. It is the push-pull-legs split. It certainly can be effective. There are all kinds of splits you can try, but I just would avoid mixing back and legs or hitting the same muscles two days in a row. Otherwise you will probably be fine.

I have never understood the argument that you can't work your biceps to the full after doing compound pulling movements. Fatigue is cumulative. It just won't require quite as much isolation work to fully exhaust the muscle.

I always thought that it was you can't stress a muscle as much when you do chest/shoulders for example.

Say you bench, then do some dips, then start your shoulder stuff, your press is going to be less than it usually is, whcih would mean your shoulders don't experience as much stress due to heavy weight. They still get fatigued, perhaps even more, but you just can't use as much weight.

lnvanry · 10-27-2005, 11:32 PM

The only muscles IMO that souldn't be worked together are core muscles (back/chest/legs)

But even precious Arnold worked chest and back simul.

I have often thought about doing a chest/back just to see how big of a pump I could get.

ST240 · 10-27-2005, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_oo3

I always thought that it was you can't stress a muscle as much when you do chest/shoulders for example.

Say you bench, then do some dips, then start your shoulder stuff, your press is going to be less than it usually is, whcih would mean your shoulders don't experience as much stress due to heavy weight. They still get fatigued, perhaps even more, but you just can't use as much weight.

This is EXACTLY what i was wondering about too! The same in relation to doing tris after chest. Cowpimp anything?

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_oo3

I always thought that it was you can't stress a muscle as much when you do chest/shoulders for example.

Say you bench, then do some dips, then start your shoulder stuff, your press is going to be less than it usually is, whcih would mean your shoulders don't experience as much stress due to heavy weight. They still get fatigued, perhaps even more, but you just can't use as much weight.

That's because the muscles already bore more weight on the heavier compound movements. That is why I suggest doing the big compound movements first.

People think too much in terms of exercises being for one body part. If you start a push day with the bench press, then you have already exposed your chest, front delts, and triceps to plenty of stimulus necessary for strength and size increases. The bench press is not a chest movement. That's stupid. It does a lot more than stimulate your chest.

If you need to prioritize vertical pressing movements, then start your next push day with some overhead pressing. Who cares about strength in isolation arm movements? That isn't real strength, that is bodybuilding exercise pussy strength. In terms of strength with isolation movements, your only concern should be the carryover to real weightlifting movements.

benverner · 10-28-2005, 06:27 AM

CP's got it right, start compound first and then prioritize based on your goals. I'm addicted to push pull, and alternate my starting point every two weeks or so but never start with tris or bi's, that's a recepie for disaster IMO. I favor grouping similar movements and muscles to really blast them, it also requires less volume and allows for more rest and growth. My arms have really responded to this method, I do 2 or less isolation arm exercises at the end of my push/pull days.

itbestuk · 10-28-2005, 02:10 PM

Mon: Chest
Tues: Bi - Tri
Wed: Rest
Thurs: Back / Shoulders
Fri: Rest
Sat: Rest
Sun: Legs

lnvanry · 10-28-2005, 02:11 PM

no legs?

itbestuk · 10-28-2005, 02:13 PM

Had to go back and put it in, pressed the wrong button

ST240 · 10-28-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

People think too much in terms of exercises being for one body part. If you start a push day with the bench press, then you have already exposed your chest, front delts, and triceps to plenty of stimulus necessary for strength and size increases. The bench press is not a chest movement. That's stupid. It does a lot more than stimulate your chest.

So would hitting DB military press right after bench be overtraining for you shoulders? Or hitting pulldowns/skullcrushers right after be overtraining for your tris?

lnvanry · 10-28-2005, 03:42 PM

no...especially if your goal is strength.

You can always do inclines or steep inclines instead of military presses

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST240

So would hitting DB military press right after bench be overtraining for you shoulders? Or hitting pulldowns/skullcrushers right after be overtraining for your tris?

It depends on the volume and intensity you use. However, I seriously doubt it in most cases. Also, I do believe in training upper body exercises in both horizontal and vertical planes for strength purposes.

TJ Cline · 10-28-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_oo3

I always thought that it was you can't stress a muscle as much when you do chest/shoulders for example.

Say you bench, then do some dips, then start your shoulder stuff, your press is going to be less than it usually is, whcih would mean your shoulders don't experience as much stress due to heavy weight. They still get fatigued, perhaps even more, but you just can't use as much weight.

I train chest, delts and triceps.....in that order..
8-9 sets of chest before deltoids will cut your shoulder strength a bit but when you bench and incline you are hitting the delts....but it doesn't matter, you still fully work the deltoids.

AKIRA · 10-28-2005, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

That's because the muscles already bore more weight on the heavier compound movements. That is why I suggest doing the big compound movements first.

People think too much in terms of exercises being for one body part. If you start a push day with the bench press, then you have already exposed your chest, front delts, and triceps to plenty of stimulus necessary for strength and size increases. The bench press is not a chest movement. That's stupid. It does a lot more than stimulate your chest.

If you need to prioritize vertical pressing movements, then start your next push day with some overhead pressing. Who cares about strength in isolation arm movements? That isn't real strength, that is bodybuilding exercise pussy strength. In terms of strength with isolation movements, your only concern should be the carryover to real weightlifting movements.

Hmm. But do your synergist muscles end up getting exhausted in a way as in if you were to do a high rep low intesity workout?

For example, you do flat bench/incline bench/DB benchs etc...are your triceps exhausted from doing so many of those bench reps? And since they are synergists, they dont handle the majority of the weight the chest does, so are they doing just a butt load of reps with low intesity?

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Hmm. But do your synergist muscles end up getting exhausted in a way as in if you were to do a high rep low intesity workout?

You could just do a lower intensity workout with the compound movement. You don't always have to lift heavy with compound movements...

Quote:

For example, you do flat bench/incline bench/DB benchs etc...are your triceps exhausted from doing so many of those bench reps?

Whether or not they are totally exhausted depends on what your weak point is in these movements. For example, if you are weak at the bottom of the bench press, then you might not fully exhaust the triceps because you will fail at the bottom of the lift before the triceps reach failure. However, you don't have to be reaching failure to stimulate hypertrophy or strength gains.

Quote:

And since they are synergists, they dont handle the majority of the weight the chest does, so are they doing just a butt load of reps with low intesity?

The second part of the question doesn't really make sense. They are doing whatever you choose to do with them...

However, that is nonsense to say that the chest handles the majority of the weight. In fact, once the barbell gets several inches off your chest your triceps become the prime movers, although they were active from the start.

luke69duke69 · 10-29-2005, 01:21 PM

My advice is simply change the order of your routine constantly. I also believe in working whatever body part that you're seeing stagnation as far as growth is concerned first.

Tough Old Man · 10-29-2005, 03:51 PM

I'm not sure there is a correct answere here. It all depends on your type of training. Some people do full body workouts 3 times a week. Not sure but Patrick I think is either doing this or was doing this at one time. The only thing about full body workouts is you want to change exercises every workout. in other words if Mon you do Flat bench, Wed you might do incl bench or Db's for chest. But you will work every muscle the day of the full body workout. So can your question be answered....WHO KNOWS

Tough

10-27-2005, 06:44 PM	#1
kenwood Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,878 Photos: 1	what muscles shouldn't be worked w/other muscles on the same day? BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com this may be a newbie question but oh well...i've heard all this stuff like you shouldn't do biceps&back on the same day and you shouldn't do chest and shoulders on the same day..same w/chest and triceps on the same day, is any of it true? cause i was wondering if you workout your back&bi's on the sameday wouldn't your bi's be tired (worn out) from doing back before b's? and wouldn't that mean your bi's can't get worked to their fullest extent? samething w/chest and triceps, wouldn't your tri'ss be tired from doin chest?....i'm just wondering all this crap, can someone get this straightened out? for me

10-27-2005, 07:53 PM	#6
kenwood Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,878 Photos: 1	ok?

10-27-2005, 10:49 PM	#7
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,400	That is one of the most tried and true low frequeuncy splits out there. It is the push-pull-legs split. It certainly can be effective. There are all kinds of splits you can try, but I just would avoid mixing back and legs or hitting the same muscles two days in a row. Otherwise you will probably be fine. I have never understood the argument that you can't work your biceps to the full after doing compound pulling movements. Fatigue is cumulative. It just won't require quite as much isolation work to fully exhaust the muscle.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

10-29-2005, 01:21 PM	#22
luke69duke69 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 478	My advice is simply change the order of your routine constantly. I also believe in working whatever body part that you're seeing stagnation as far as growth is concerned first.
	"I may not be the best looking guy in the bar, but I'm the only one talking to you" - J King

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10-27-2005, 06:58 PM	#2
themamasan Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 452	I am no expert and got most of my knowledge from the guys on here...but I will tell you what works for me. If you are going to work a large muscle group and a smaller one on the same day, then Back/BI and CHest/Tri are ideal. But I started doing Chest one day, Back one day, Legs one day, Shoulders one day, and then Bi/Tri on one day. I get plenty of rest between workouts, and for the first time in years I am progressing in strength.

10-27-2005, 07:02 PM	#3
kenwood Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,878 Photos: 1	so you do this: mon.chest tues.back wed.legs thurs.shoulders fri.bi's/tris? wheres the rest days? except sat&sun.?

10-27-2005, 07:23 PM	#4
kenwood Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,878 Photos: 1	anyone else?????????

10-27-2005, 11:32 PM	#9
lnvanry primeau Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: DC Posts: 2,916 Photos: 12	The only muscles IMO that souldn't be worked together are core muscles (back/chest/legs) But even precious Arnold worked chest and back simul. I have often thought about doing a chest/back just to see how big of a pump I could get.

10-28-2005, 06:27 AM	#12
benverner Catabolic Idiot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Baltimore Posts: 151	CP's got it right, start compound first and then prioritize based on your goals. I'm addicted to push pull, and alternate my starting point every two weeks or so but never start with tris or bi's, that's a recepie for disaster IMO. I favor grouping similar movements and muscles to really blast them, it also requires less volume and allows for more rest and growth. My arms have really responded to this method, I do 2 or less isolation arm exercises at the end of my push/pull days.

10-28-2005, 02:10 PM	#13
itbestuk Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK / Birmingham Posts: 126	Mon: Chest Tues: Bi - Tri Wed: Rest Thurs: Back / Shoulders Fri: Rest Sat: Rest Sun: Legs

10-28-2005, 02:11 PM	#14
lnvanry primeau Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: DC Posts: 2,916 Photos: 12	no legs?

10-28-2005, 02:13 PM	#15
itbestuk Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK / Birmingham Posts: 126	Had to go back and put it in, pressed the wrong button

10-28-2005, 03:42 PM	#17
lnvanry primeau Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: DC Posts: 2,916 Photos: 12	no...especially if your goal is strength. You can always do inclines or steep inclines instead of military presses

10-29-2005, 03:51 PM	#23
Tough Old Man Canine club CEO Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: baja calif, Mexico Posts: 6,933 Photos: 1	I'm not sure there is a correct answere here. It all depends on your type of training. Some people do full body workouts 3 times a week. Not sure but Patrick I think is either doing this or was doing this at one time. The only thing about full body workouts is you want to change exercises every workout. in other words if Mon you do Flat bench, Wed you might do incl bench or Db's for chest. But you will work every muscle the day of the full body workout. So can your question be answered....WHO KNOWS Tough

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