Thread: Funky Full Body

That is funky. Let us know how it goes

You have any p/rr/s workouts with specifc exercises that you have put together yourself?



J

Originally Posted by Incognegro

That is funky. Let us know how it goes

You have any p/rr/s workouts with specifc exercises that you have put together yourself?



J

I have a P-RR-S journal archived somewhere if you want to look for it. I was doing some overly complicated split at the time, although I certainly made some gains. You could keep your current split going and use P-RR-S.

-not being negative just wondering-

Why are there only 4 or 5 movements what percentages are you lifting at and what is the purpose of the workout? and decline situps really aren't that great from a biomechanicle stand point they work completly opposite of your strength curve through the entire motion.

Originally Posted by slider

-not being negative just wondering-

Why are there only 4 or 5 movements

Because they are all compound movements, there are no isolation lifts.

Originally Posted by slider

-not being negative just wondering-

Why are there only 4 or 5 movements what percentages are you lifting at and what is the purpose of the workout?

5 movements is plenty for a full body workout. I have a leg movement, push movement, pull movement, core movement, and one accessory lift each workout.

I will be lifting at whatever numbers allow me to achieve a flat loading pattern: keeping the same weight and number of reps for all working sets. So, 8x3 will be my 5-6RM, 4x6 will probably be about my 8RM, 3x8 will probably be about my 10RM, and 2x12 will probably equate to about my 15RM. However, these are just guesses. I'm going to have to use a trial and error a little bit to see which allows me to use the desired loading pattern.

My purpose is to improve strength, strength endurance, and raise my work capacity. I have been doing high intensity low volume routines for so long; it's time to change it up. Also, as soon as I get back into flat pressing somewhat heavily with both arms I will be upping my calories and trying to pack on a little mass too. I suspect this will be within a week or two. I'm already resolved to overhead pressing with both arms next session I do a vertical pressing movement.

and decline situps really aren't that great from a biomechanicle stand point they work completly opposite of your strength curve through the entire motion.

Are you thinking of incline situps? Decline situps add more resistance without even adding weight and also increase the range of motion...

I see a little turkish get up in there

Originally Posted by lnvanry

I see a little turkish get up in there

Haha, damned straight!

1. oh that makes more sense let me know how it go's I used to do a full body routine that was really good for strength let me know if you are interested. Yes I do know the benefits of decline sit ups but they still on biomechanicl level are "whack". basicaly it works like this the stregth curve is the the amout of torque through a movement easy enough. IE on a standing biceps curl the highest pont of torque is when the elbow is at 90 degrees.so the tallest part of curve on a 2d graph would be at that joint angle making a 1/4 circle line. so those are you internal variables now for the external ie gravity. when your arms are down and at the top of the move ment the force of gravity are smallest and when your elbow is at 90 degrees gravity is highest creating an external curve that is exactley the same as an internal curve this most disireable for a movement to be as effecient as possibe. Now with the declined situp, A sit up is easiest at the bottom and hardest at the top(internally) now add the decline the force or graity are heaviest at the bottom and easiest at the top because gravity unloads ass your head become up right so the the strength curve for this motion basicly forms an X in stead of a // and the only only true point of muscular effinancy is when at the point they cross instead of the forces running parralel the whole time. When choosing work outs you can pretty much just think about you don't have to do all the math(it is horrible)try to pick work outs that have parralel force curves and your work out will be much more eficant providing better results. A well planned work out combined with well thought out articulations is the key. So many times we do one but not the other. I hope that made sense

what's w/ the microscopic font

Actually, torque is going to be the highest when your body is parallel with the floor when you do a decline situp. Therefore, the situp is actually slightly easier at the bottom of the movement and becomes easier when you pass the critical point, much like a curl.

Think of it like this: the difference is that the axis of rotation isn't your elbows, it is where your hips are anchored. So, your upper body acts like your upper arm in a curl. Imagine hanging totally upside down. The force curve would instantly turn to that of a curl, particularly if you are holding a weight near your head/shoulders. Also, increasing the weight becomes exponentially harder because your center of gravity is moved more toward the end of the lever, which is your upper body, as you add resistance at the end of the lever (Assuming you maintain the same bodyweight).

The equation to figure out torque is force x lever arm distance. The amount of force gravity is applying is essentially contstant (Although the point at which it is being applied changes as you move), but the lever arm distance changes dramatically throughout the movement. Obviously when you are parallel to the ground it is the highest.

If anything, decline situps create a more favorable force curve as opposed to a flat situp where the maximum amount of torque is "applied" right at the bottom of the movement.

ok I just used the bicpes as an example cuz I didnt know what you background is and no I don't have the numbers infront of me about the axis of rotation of the spine. The only way to change torque is lengthin the moment arm, change the insertion angles of the muscle, or push harder overall. you are thinking of the forces of gravity working against you. the decline makes it go as far as gravit goes Hard=bottom, harder = halfwayish, easier =3/4ish, most easy=the top. your strenth curve never changes because your spine doesn't get longer, your abdominal muscle don't change proximal or distal attachment points, or randomly get stronger at a point durring the movement creating a sudden burst of new force. The point where you percieve as "a better work out" is where the lines cross wich just means that is the only point in the movement where your abs are working at there full potential. instead of a paralel curves where your are blowing your door off all the way. I know you think you are right but you are not. Not being an "aplha dick" but I have scene the physical proof in the my physiology lab. Done the math I am right. Decline Sit ups are the Worst End of story stick a fork in it. you should actualy do 3 seperate ab work outs working your upper, lower, and obliques changing them every 3 weeks cuz your abdominal just like your biceps are "smart fibers" and find ways to cheat veryfast recruiting less fibers giving you the plataue effect wich is good for your body but bad for trainning. I don't have 8,000,000,000 post but I am no way A newb to trainning and the human body. What do you do for a living so I know where you are coming from and don't have to explain things you might already know


and yes hanging upside down situps would be much better if you have ankle boots and a horizontal bar and with torque in conjuntion to the human body insertan opoints of the muscle also make a huge deal as well. Remember when Russia got caught cheating in the olymics cuz they tried to surgicaly alter the muscle insertion points of there athletes to make them stronger.

That looks really interesting Cow. Will the sets be to failure?

Originally Posted by slider

ok I just used the bicpes as an example cuz I didnt know what you background is and no I don't have the numbers infront of me about the axis of rotation of the spine. The only way to change torque is lengthin the moment arm, change the insertion angles of the muscle, or push harder overall. you are thinking of the forces of gravity working against you. the decline makes it go as far as gravit goes Hard=bottom, harder = halfwayish, easier =3/4ish, most easy=the top.

Sort of. You are changing the length of the lever arm distance as you move up. When you are parallel with the floor, the lever arm distance is the greatest from the axis of rotation, which is at the hip joint. As you move past that halfway point the lever arm distance decreases once again.

The distance of the lever arm is not measured in the direction that the lever is pointing. You measure it perpendicular to the forces acting on the object in question, which is gravity in this case. So, you measure horitzontally, because gravity pulls straight down toward the center of the Earth. Therefore, the lever arm distance is:

(the distance from your hip joint to the top of your head) x cos(number of degrees above or below horizontal)

The second variable in that equation changes constantly throughout the entire movement.

your strenth curve never changes because your spine doesn't get longer, your abdominal muscle don't change proximal or distal attachment points, or randomly get stronger at a point durring the movement creating a sudden burst of new force. The point where you percieve as "a better work out" is where the lines cross wich just means that is the only point in the movement where your abs are working at there full potential. instead of a paralel curves where your are blowing your door off all the way. I know you think you are right but you are not. Not being an "aplha dick" but I have scene the physical proof in the my physiology lab. Done the math I am right. Decline Sit ups are the Worst End of story stick a fork in it.

Somehow I doubt that you have a physiology lab where you tested the efficacy of decline situps. Here is a study where someone found the opposite of what you are claiming:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=155519

you should actualy do 3 seperate ab work outs working your upper, lower, and obliques changing them every 3 weeks cuz your abdominal just like your biceps are "smart fibers" and find ways to cheat veryfast recruiting less fibers giving you the plataue effect wich is good for your body but bad for trainning. I don't have 8,000,000,000 post but I am no way A newb to trainning and the human body. What do you do for a living so I know where you are coming from and don't have to explain things you might already know

There is no such thing as upper and lower abs. Furthermore, a lot of oblique activiation occurs in movements like situps and leg raises. They will also get a lot of work in the unilteral movements and Turkish getups.

Fibers don't have brains. You brain controls all fibers. This same type of effect occurs with all exercises; it's called improving neuromuscular efficiency. It is why sport specific training is important.

My job is not related to exercise science, but I am studying it in school and do so on my free time. I also know the basic principles of classical physics.

and yes hanging upside down situps would be much better if you have ankle boots and a horizontal bar and with torque in conjuntion to the human body insertan opoints of the muscle also make a huge deal as well. Remember when Russia got caught cheating in the olymics cuz they tried to surgicaly alter the muscle insertion points of there athletes to make them stronger.

Well, decline situps put you that much closer to hanging upside down compared to a flat situp. Therefore, the changes should be favorable.

Originally Posted by Rocco32

That looks really interesting Cow. Will the sets be to failure?

Nopers. I'm going to be using the cumulative fatigue method, AKA flat pyramid loading. I will warmup gradually and then level out for my working sets attempting to maintain the same number of repetitions and same amount of weight throughout.

It is largely based on Chad Waterbury's programs that he posts on T-Nation, except that I mix all those repetitions ranges in the same workout instead of alternating throughout the week.

I also avoid antagonist supersets. Although I think it's a great idea, I don't trust that I can hold 2 machines down without some dick fuck jumping up in the middle of my timed rest intervals and throwing things off. Plus, this will help with my strength endurance.

Man I am not trying to have a pissing contest. I am right and I don't need to read the paper cuz i have done the testing myself. you can do whatever you want just trying help. Well my school is all about ex phys. and I am well aware that muscle fibers do not have brains. it is an easier way to explain something very comlex. The body always trys to adabt things to make it easier and use less energy it is a survival mechanism the motor neuron that excite your biceps and abdominal muscle are considered smart muscle because if you do the same work out on "smart muscle" all the time your brain(in your head) figures out how to get the exact same pull by recruiting fibers in different manners using less energy to get the same effort. Don't come back at me with something you read in a book somewhere or something on the internet that says I am wrong cuz it is out there. there are people on both sides of the fences throwing rocks 24/7 at each other just try and let actions speak for themselves. every 2 to 3 weeks change your arm and ab work out it works you'll get faster results than not changing. and I know there are is not an upper and lower rectus femoris but you can work the inferior and superior portion of the abs seperatly to get even results all the way accross the muscle more succesfully.


I am done fighting with you

Originally Posted by slider

Man I am not trying to have a pissing contest. I am right and I don't need to read the paper cuz i have done the testing myself. you can do whatever you want just trying help. Well my school is all about ex phys. and I am well aware that muscle fibers do not have brains. it is an easier way to explain something very comlex. The body always trys to adabt things to make it easier and use less energy it is a survival mechanism the motor neuron that excite your biceps and abdominal muscle are considered smart muscle because if you do the same work out on "smart muscle" all the time your brain(in your head) figures out how to get the exact same pull by recruiting fibers in different manners using less energy to get the same effort. Don't come back at me with something you read in a book somewhere or something on the internet that says I am wrong cuz it is out there. there are people on both sides of the fences throwing rocks 24/7 at each other just try and let actions speak for themselves. every 2 to 3 weeks change your arm and ab work out it works you'll get faster results than not changing. and I know there are is not an upper and lower rectus femoris but you can work the inferior and superior portion of the abs seperatly to get even results all the way accross the muscle more succesfully.


I am done fighting with you

Originally Posted by BigDyl

Me too!

Originally Posted by slider

it is a survival mechanism the motor neuron that excite your biceps and abdominal muscle are considered smart muscle because if you do the same work out on "smart muscle" all the time your brain(in your head) figures out how to get the exact same pull by recruiting fibers in different manners using less energy to get the same effort.

This happens with all motor units and is the reason why strength gains occur in the first couple of month of training without concommittant hypertrophy. I am sure there is some variation between muscle groups, but it is prolly more genetic than anything else. I don't think you can say the abs and bis are going to respond better with all people, I think the literature would refute this. That is why 2 people performing the same routine will respond quite differently.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

This happens with all motor units and is the reason why strength gains occur in the first couple of month of training without concommittant hypertrophy. I am sure there is some variation between muscle groups, but it is prolly more genetic than anything else. I don't think you can say the abs and bis are going to respond better with all people, I think the literature would refute this. That is why 2 people performing the same routine will respond quite differently.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. The body always adapts to become more efficient, no matter what the activity. There is more than one way to overload your body; performing a different exercise is only one of them.

Cow,

Can't seem to find your p/rr/s journal through search. Happen to have a link?

And I would love to use my current split (4 Days) w/ p/rr/s, basically because of the time issue. Im there 45 min at the most.

J

Any updates on your progress w/ this routine?

I'm definetly trying this workout.

I tried to incorporate some of the 8x3 concept into my workout yesterday, and after 3 sets I realized I was going way too heavy.