Which routine offers less chance of overtraining

ST240 · 10-27-2005, 11:44 PM

I'm on a bulk and I'm currently doing the classic:

day 1: chest/tris
day 2: off
day 3: back/bis
day 4: off
day 4: shoulders
day 5: legs
day 6: off
day 7: repeat

Main muscles are 12-14 sets, when bis/tris are included, 4 each.

Now im concerned about my arms getting over trained (I want them to grow like mad!!). I was digging around thru old threads and P-funk, if im not mistaken, suggested something like:

day 1: chest/back
day 2: off
day 3: legs
day 4: off
day 4: shoulders/arms
day 5: off
day 6: off
day 7: repeat

Looks like loads of fun

. But isnt hitting two big muscle groups like back/chest in one day a no no?. I want to try this but i feel like my arms might get overtrained as well. Ie. you are hitting primaries (chest/back) then hitting arms so its almost like youre hitting arms twice a week (kinda sorta). Maybe the logic is off on that though

. With my original one i posted, Ill hit chest for example, and by this time my tri's are already tired, then i slam them with some more exercises

overtraining?. I like the look of P-funks one a lot more and i want to try it i just dont want to overtrain anything.

Opinions?

Maybe im just paranoid.

lnvanry · 10-27-2005, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST240

day 1: chest/back
day 2: off
day 3: legs
day 4: off
day 4: shoulders/arms
day 5: off
day 6: off
day 7: repeat
.

I think w/ only 4 sets on your arms you're under training IMO. This split above is no good IMO either. Stick to your classic or a split that involved opposing muscles groups like:

chest/bi
back/tri
legs
shoulders

I always get the best size (mass) gain by doing bi/tri the same day and supersetting every time. I get awsome pumps this way

TJ Cline · 10-28-2005, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST240

I'm on a bulk and I'm currently doing the classic:

day 1: chest/tris
day 2: off
day 3: back/bis
day 4: off
day 4: shoulders.....why two day 4's???
day 5: legs
day 6: off
day 7: repeat

Main muscles are 12-14 sets, when bis/tris are included, 4 each.

Now im concerned about my arms getting over trained (I want them to grow like mad!!). I was digging around thru old threads and P-funk, if im not mistaken, suggested something like:

day 1: chest/back
day 2: off
day 3: legs
day 4: off
day 4: shoulders/arms...????
day 5: off
day 6: off
day 7: repeat

Looks like loads of fun

. But isnt hitting two big muscle groups like back/chest in one day a no no?. I want to try this but i feel like my arms might get overtrained as well. Ie. you are hitting primaries (chest/back) then hitting arms so its almost like youre hitting arms twice a week (kinda sorta). Maybe the logic is off on that though

. With my original one i posted, Ill hit chest for example, and by this time my tri's are already tired, then i slam them with some more exercises

overtraining?. I like the look of P-funks one a lot more and i want to try it i just dont want to overtrain anything.

Opinions?

Maybe im just paranoid.

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 12:46 AM

Doing chest and back together is fine if you can keep the workout to a reasonable length.

benverner · 10-28-2005, 06:20 AM

Pfunk's split is okay but it's hard to go intense and heavy on that chest/back day and finish in under two hours if you are doing it right. You will be spent and have to rest far too long between sets to go heavy.

If you want big arms, train them with your power movements on your pressing and pulling days and then rest them. 2 sets of isolation work at best on those days.

BTW, I've seen people with big arms superset before, but never saw someone who supersets all the time get big arms. Pumps don't mean shit.

WantToBeBig · 10-28-2005, 06:32 AM

Personally..I have recently discovered that I am working tris far to much (overtraining). This is affecting my chest workouts bigtime and I think it is hindering arm growth as well. I am currently doign a split that has my doing back\tris Monday, and chest on Thursday, the problem is on Wednesday I do Shoulder which inadvertetly hit tris as well. I will be changing my split so I do Tris on Monday and reduce the number of sets dedicated to Tricep work.

Just my personal revelations

benverner · 10-28-2005, 07:49 AM

push/pull baby! never over train!

It does take me a good hour and 15 minutes to get through the push/pull days though. If it doesn't I know I could have gone heavier. I could probably ditch the iso work since I'm getting 20 sets of heavy indirect/direct tri and bi work.

WantToBeBig · 10-28-2005, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benverner

push/pull baby! never over train!

It does take me a good hour and 15 minutes to get through the push/pull days though. If it doesn't I know I could have gone heavier. I could probably ditch the iso work since I'm getting 20 sets of heavy indirect/direct tri and bi work.

Ben..what does your routine look like? I am struggling to come up with a new one that will avoid the overtraining problems I see now. And for some reason I have a mental block, I am worried that a push\pull or lower volume (direct work) will not allow me to progress. I have seen awsome results strength wise since this routine, I just think that my chest is being afected by overtraining my tris.

benverner · 10-28-2005, 08:44 AM

Push

Flat BB bench 5x5
Incline DB bench 5x5
Military 5x5
Close Grip Press 5x5
Press Downs 5x5 (I may drop this one)

Pull
One Arm Row 5x5
Upright Row 5x5
Weighted Wide Grip Pull ups 5x5
Weighted CG chinup 5x5
Hammer curls 5x5

I wan an over trained jackass for at least a decade, lose the mental block and GROW. I'll PM you some stuff that will help you change your mind. More is not better, better is better. You don't grow in the gym.

WantToBeBig · 10-28-2005, 09:33 AM

Cool, you are responding well to the lower rep range? I just wonder if I should keep it in the 8-12 rep range?

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WantToBeBig

Cool, you are responding well to the lower rep range? I just wonder if I should keep it in the 8-12 rep range?

You should alternate repetition ranges. Don't ever stick exclusively to one rep range. That is the one problem I have with Max-OT.

benverner · 10-28-2005, 12:28 PM

CP, if your goals are in line why can't you stick to a rep range while seeing results? As long as I am adding load to the bar and lbs and inches to my body, is there a good physiological reason to switch for the sake of switching?

IMO, if you are adding size and strength at a good pace...especially week to week there is no reason to change unless your goals change.

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benverner

CP, if your goals are in line why can't you stick to a rep range while seeing results? As long as I am adding load to the bar and lbs and inches to my body, is there a good physiological reason to switch for the sake of switching?

IMO, if you are adding size and strength at a good pace...especially week to week there is no reason to change unless your goals change.

I don't necessarily mean that you should switch every week, but I wouldn't keep in the same range for 6 months even if you are making gains. However, I seriously doubt you're going to keep making gains indefinitely, and you will be forced to change your routine at some point anyway.

There is more than one type of strength. You should alter your repetition ranges so that you have more well-rounded strength traits. It's fine to stick to one for a while, but I still would change it eventually.

ST240 · 10-28-2005, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Doing chest and back together is fine if you can keep the workout to a reasonable length.

like what? 12-14 sets for chest and back each (total of 24-28)?

I donno if i could do that

ST240 · 10-28-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

yeah whats up with that

basically its

Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
Saturday
Sunday
Monday - repeat

respectively

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST240

like what? 12-14 sets for chest and back each (total of 24-28)?

I donno if i could do that

Personally, I would do less on your standard routine variables, but that would be fine assuming your intensity is adjust accordingly.

10-27-2005, 11:44 PM	#1
ST240 ...And justice for all. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 1,388	Which routine offers less chance of overtraining BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com I'm on a bulk and I'm currently doing the classic: day 1: chest/tris day 2: off day 3: back/bis day 4: off day 4: shoulders day 5: legs day 6: off day 7: repeat Main muscles are 12-14 sets, when bis/tris are included, 4 each. Now im concerned about my arms getting over trained (I want them to grow like mad!!). I was digging around thru old threads and P-funk, if im not mistaken, suggested something like: day 1: chest/back day 2: off day 3: legs day 4: off day 4: shoulders/arms day 5: off day 6: off day 7: repeat Looks like loads of fun . But isnt hitting two big muscle groups like back/chest in one day a no no?. I want to try this but i feel like my arms might get overtrained as well. Ie. you are hitting primaries (chest/back) then hitting arms so its almost like youre hitting arms twice a week (kinda sorta). Maybe the logic is off on that though . With my original one i posted, Ill hit chest for example, and by this time my tri's are already tired, then i slam them with some more exercises overtraining?. I like the look of P-funks one a lot more and i want to try it i just dont want to overtrain anything. Opinions? Maybe im just paranoid.

10-28-2005, 12:46 AM	#4
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,400	Doing chest and back together is fine if you can keep the workout to a reasonable length.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

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10-28-2005, 06:20 AM	#5
benverner Catabolic Idiot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Baltimore Posts: 151	Pfunk's split is okay but it's hard to go intense and heavy on that chest/back day and finish in under two hours if you are doing it right. You will be spent and have to rest far too long between sets to go heavy. If you want big arms, train them with your power movements on your pressing and pulling days and then rest them. 2 sets of isolation work at best on those days. BTW, I've seen people with big arms superset before, but never saw someone who supersets all the time get big arms. Pumps don't mean shit.

10-28-2005, 06:32 AM	#6
WantToBeBig Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 15	Personally..I have recently discovered that I am working tris far to much (overtraining). This is affecting my chest workouts bigtime and I think it is hindering arm growth as well. I am currently doign a split that has my doing back\tris Monday, and chest on Thursday, the problem is on Wednesday I do Shoulder which inadvertetly hit tris as well. I will be changing my split so I do Tris on Monday and reduce the number of sets dedicated to Tricep work. Just my personal revelations

10-28-2005, 07:49 AM	#7
benverner Catabolic Idiot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Baltimore Posts: 151	push/pull baby! never over train! It does take me a good hour and 15 minutes to get through the push/pull days though. If it doesn't I know I could have gone heavier. I could probably ditch the iso work since I'm getting 20 sets of heavy indirect/direct tri and bi work.

10-28-2005, 08:44 AM	#9
benverner Catabolic Idiot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Baltimore Posts: 151	Push Flat BB bench 5x5 Incline DB bench 5x5 Military 5x5 Close Grip Press 5x5 Press Downs 5x5 (I may drop this one) Pull One Arm Row 5x5 Upright Row 5x5 Weighted Wide Grip Pull ups 5x5 Weighted CG chinup 5x5 Hammer curls 5x5 I wan an over trained jackass for at least a decade, lose the mental block and GROW. I'll PM you some stuff that will help you change your mind. More is not better, better is better. You don't grow in the gym.

10-28-2005, 09:33 AM	#10
WantToBeBig Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 15	Cool, you are responding well to the lower rep range? I just wonder if I should keep it in the 8-12 rep range?

10-28-2005, 12:28 PM	#12
benverner Catabolic Idiot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Baltimore Posts: 151	CP, if your goals are in line why can't you stick to a rep range while seeing results? As long as I am adding load to the bar and lbs and inches to my body, is there a good physiological reason to switch for the sake of switching? IMO, if you are adding size and strength at a good pace...especially week to week there is no reason to change unless your goals change.