Are Dips/Chin Ups better for your arms than any curling excersizes?

CancerNV · 10-28-2005, 11:21 AM

Why would someone at my gym say this? Could it be true?

Tough Old Man · 10-28-2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CancerNV

Why would someone at my gym say this? Could it be true?

Bar dips and chins are compound training exercises. I do believe compound exercises to be superior to isolation type exercises. So I say true but only if you continually add weight to the exercise.

benverner · 10-28-2005, 11:44 AM

got to do it heavy like tough said, 4-6 rep range...add weight to yourself if necessary. I believe this to be true and have seen it personally.

compound=better

CancerNV · 10-28-2005, 11:52 AM

Im going to try it out. How often do you do these excersizes then? When do you put them in your routine? It seems like one should be with back and the other with chest?

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 11:53 AM

Oh boy, I can see where this thread is going...

Let's just say that your training regimen should be centered around compound exercises. In my opinion, isolation movements should mostly be used to bring up weak points or lagging body parts.

TJ Cline · 10-28-2005, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benverner

got to do it heavy like tough said, 4-6 rep range...add weight to yourself if necessary. I believe this to be true and have seen it personally.

compound=better

For powerlifting yes
But for just BB or exercise 8-10 is better

benverner · 10-28-2005, 12:39 PM

what they said.

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

For powerlifting yes
But for just BB or exercise 8-10 is better

I think 4-6 is a good range to include in bodybuilding routines sometimes as well. Training with weights in the 4-8RM range is great for functional hypertrophy.

lnvanry · 10-28-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

For powerlifting yes
But for just BB or exercise 8-10 is better

lnvanry · 10-28-2005, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CancerNV

Why would someone at my gym say this? Could it be true?

IMO I try to take my arms out of those exercises.

On pullups I try to use pure back muscles to get up...no forearms or biceps or at least to a minimum

on dips I lean way foward and flare my elbows out to diminish my tri from the exercise. For me dips are a chest/front delt exercise. I never lock out at the top either b/c this is all tris at that point

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnvanry

IMO I try to take my arms out of those exercises.

On pullups I try to use pure back muscles to get up...no forearms or biceps or at least to a minimum

on dips I lean way foward and flare my elbows out to diminish my tri from the exercise. For me dips are a chest/front delt exercise. I never lock out at the top either b/c this is all tris at that point

Don't shortchange your range of motion for the sake of trying to reduce tricep stimulation. That makes no sense. What's the point?

lnvanry · 10-28-2005, 01:34 PM

I shortchange the motion on a lot of things to only certain mucles groups on certain days...ex.

chest day I never lock out bench and dips...Its a chest day not a chest and tri day.

shoulders day I don't lock out on overhead presses...it's not shoulders and tris for me.

I save my tris for a high volume tri day. My volume is pretty crazy I posted it on another thread today titled "high volume workouts" or something like that..check it out Cow.

i'm curious of what you think. I like to discuss training w/ you.

TJ Cline · 10-28-2005, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I think 4-6 is a good range to include in bodybuilding routines sometimes as well. Training with weights in the 4-8RM range is great for functional hypertrophy.

If somebody is consistantly doing sets of 4 reps on biceps their is a 95% chance that person is an idiot.

Less than 6 reps is for power lifting/Olympic lifting only!!!

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnvanry

I shortchange the motion on a lot of things to only certain mucles groups on certain days...ex.

chest day I never lock out bench and dips...Its a chest day not a chest and tri day.

shoulders day I don't lock out on overhead presses...it's not shoulders and tris for me.

Everyone thinks of movements in body parts too much! You are using your triceps regardless. If you extend the elbow your triceps get used. The only thing you are doing is sacrificing strength at lockout for some silly notion that you can't hit a body part more than once per week. Also, you are neglecting your traps to some degree on overhead pressing because your scapula elevates when locking out overhead presses.

If you want to isolate a body part with some supplemental work then use an isolation exercise. Don't use limited range of motion compound movements...

Quote:

I save my tris for a high volume tri day. My volume is pretty crazy I posted it on another thread today titled "high volume workouts" or something like that..check it out Cow.

i'm curious of what you think. I like to discuss training w/ you.

If it's working for you, then my opinion of it is pretty meaningless. Nonetheless, I'll take a look for ya.

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Less than 6 reps is for power lifting/Olympic lifting only!!!

That is a ridiculous statement. All kinds of effective bodybuilding protocols call for using intensities higher than your 8RM. Improving neuromuscular efficiency has positive benefits on hypertrophy. Not to mention, fast-twitch B fibers don't get as much stimulation as they should unless you are conciously use compensatory acceleration on all your lifts. Even then, you are neglecting the other benefits of lifting heavy.

TJ Cline · 10-28-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

That is a ridiculous statement. All kinds of effective bodybuilding protocols call for using intensities higher than your 8RM. Improving neuromuscular efficiency has positive benefits on hypertrophy. Not to mention, fast-twitch B fibers don't get as much stimulation as they should unless you are conciously use compensatory acceleration on all your lifts. Even then, you are neglecting the other benefits of lifting heavy.

Use the entire quote next time

Here it is in its entirety.
If somebody is consistently doing sets of 4 reps on biceps their is a 95% chance that person is an idiot.
Less than 6 reps is for power lifting/Olympic lifting only!!!

Dropping below 6 reps ( i.e. 1-5 reps) is of little benefit to bodybuilders or the casual lifter........it will however in most cases increase your risk of injury

Nate K · 10-28-2005, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CancerNV

Why would someone at my gym say this? Could it be true?

Yes it is true.

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Use the entire quote next time

Here it is in its entirety.
If somebody is consistently doing sets of 4 reps on biceps their is a 95% chance that person is an idiot.
Less than 6 reps is for power lifting/Olympic lifting only!!!

Although I hesitate to call the person an idiot, I think that doing sets purely of 4 repetitions for bicep isolation is not the best idea. That's why I only used the second sentence, which is nonsense.

Quote:

Dropping below 6 reps ( i.e. 1-5 reps) is of little benefit to bodybuilders or the casual lifter........it will however in most cases increase your risk of injury

Nonsense again! As long as you maintain proper form your chance of injury shouldn't rise appreciably.

kraziplaya · 10-28-2005, 02:40 PM

my arms are my genetic pro(prob the only one) and i rarely hit them individually.. used to... doing heavy benching..heavy rowing seems to make them grow just fine

mr_oo3 · 10-28-2005, 03:25 PM

I agree with Cowpimp. For me personally 4-6 always sees some of the best mass gains. Anyway the increased strength you get from 4-6 means you can lift more effectivly at 8-10.

lnvanry · 10-28-2005, 03:32 PM

yeah but that mass is covered by a layer of fat

good stuff

TJ Cline · 10-28-2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Although I hesitate to call the person an idiot, I think that doing sets purely of 4 repetitions for bicep isolation is not the best idea. That's why I only used the second sentence, which is nonsense.

Nonsense again! As long as you maintain proper form your chance of injury shouldn't rise appreciably.

I absolutely disagree with you.......to even think doing singles ( maxing out) or 3,4 reps is as safe as higher reps (6-12+) is just pure nonsense.
90% of the people in the gym are incapable of training with proper form when they max or do super low reps.....

In a perfect world???? I still say low or single reps are far more dangerous......esp with biceps and triceps....the muscles this thread is about!

**CowPimp** · 10-28-2005, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

I absolutely disagree with you.......to even think doing singles ( maxing out) or 3,4 reps is as safe as higher reps (6-12+) is just pure nonsense.
90% of the people in the gym are incapable of training with proper form when they max or do super low reps.....

In a perfect world???? I still say low or single reps are far more dangerous......esp with biceps and triceps....the muscles this thread is about!

I understand what you're saying. Most people don't pay enough attention to form or fixing weak points to improve it. However, like I said, if done properly, I don't think lifting heavy is inherently dangerous. Going into the world of heavy lifting does require gradual increases to ensure that you don't overdo it.

10-28-2005, 11:21 AM	#1
CancerNV Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 454	Are Dips/Chin Ups better for your arms than any curling excersizes? BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com Why would someone at my gym say this? Could it be true?
CancerNV Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 454	http://www.moviemarket.co.uk/thumbna...mbs/223620.jpg

10-28-2005, 11:52 AM	#4
CancerNV Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 454	Im going to try it out. How often do you do these excersizes then? When do you put them in your routine? It seems like one should be with back and the other with chest?
CancerNV Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 454	http://www.moviemarket.co.uk/thumbna...mbs/223620.jpg

10-28-2005, 11:53 AM	#5
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,400	Oh boy, I can see where this thread is going... Let's just say that your training regimen should be centered around compound exercises. In my opinion, isolation movements should mostly be used to bring up weak points or lagging body parts.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

10-28-2005, 03:25 PM	#20
mr_oo3 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 81	I agree with Cowpimp. For me personally 4-6 always sees some of the best mass gains. Anyway the increased strength you get from 4-6 means you can lift more effectivly at 8-10.
mr_oo3 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 81	@ March 30 DEADLIFT - 210kg Be a lamp unto yourselves... seek salvation alone in the truth – Buddha

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10-28-2005, 11:44 AM	#3
benverner Catabolic Idiot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Baltimore Posts: 151	got to do it heavy like tough said, 4-6 rep range...add weight to yourself if necessary. I believe this to be true and have seen it personally. compound=better

10-28-2005, 12:39 PM	#7
benverner Catabolic Idiot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Baltimore Posts: 151	what they said.

10-28-2005, 01:34 PM	#12
lnvanry primeau Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: DC Posts: 2,904 Photos: 12	I shortchange the motion on a lot of things to only certain mucles groups on certain days...ex. chest day I never lock out bench and dips...Its a chest day not a chest and tri day. shoulders day I don't lock out on overhead presses...it's not shoulders and tris for me. I save my tris for a high volume tri day. My volume is pretty crazy I posted it on another thread today titled "high volume workouts" or something like that..check it out Cow. i'm curious of what you think. I like to discuss training w/ you.

10-28-2005, 02:40 PM	#19
kraziplaya Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: VA Posts: 527 Photos: 1	my arms are my genetic pro(prob the only one) and i rarely hit them individually.. used to... doing heavy benching..heavy rowing seems to make them grow just fine

10-28-2005, 03:32 PM	#21
lnvanry primeau Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: DC Posts: 2,904 Photos: 12	yeah but that mass is covered by a layer of fat good stuff