Lifting suggestions, 3 days in a row

**P-funk** · 11-04-2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benverner

I understand why to use periodization, what I don't get is why the hell you would do it all in the same week. I don't have any proof but I have a real hard time thinking your muscles and CNS can adapt to all those methods within the same week.

I have the same problem with women doing a heavy day and then a light day. If you are training for bigger muscles shouldn't you be TRAINING FOR BIGGER MUSCLES. I understand powerlifters do it as a method of perfecting technique and that makes perfect sense because they are TRAINING FOR COMPETITION. If you are training for bigger and stronger muscles, then train for bigger and stronger muscles.

I'm just not very agreeable today...oh, and I'm a horse's ass.

You do it all in the same week because all of three types of training lead into and help one another. Did you not read the damn study or what was said? Have you done any research on this?

Look....It is really simple...

if you train in an 8-10 rep range (hypertrophy) for 4 weeks your 1RM strength will not get better. Similiarly your power out put would decrease because you are not working on achieveing a peak power output on the given lifts by effectivly training that ability (loads from 60-90% and working on speed with a short amount of repetitions per set). If all you did was work on your 1RM strength for a few weeks your rep range strength and power output would suffer for the exact same reasons. If you work on all of them they will work together to achieve maximal gains on all three levels. Is it that hard to believe that your CNS, the CNS of the human body, can not multi-task? So, given that we train all things in the same week to allow our body to adapty to a variety of different stuimuli and progress in a multidimensional way....

power- maximal rate of contraction. power= work/time. work= force x distance....so power= (force x distance)/time.

hypertrophy- to increase the cross sectional area of a muscle. Bigger muscles are not always stronger muscles but given the proper neurological connection (by training them correctly) they can be.

strength- the maximal force that can be generated by a muscle or muscle group.

Now, that should answer your question as to why I train all three. I compete in an athletic sport and I need to have all three things working for me. For a bb'er though, linear periodization would be fine since it has nothing to do with being an athlete. All you have to do is look a certain way. You can train like a complete jack ass and still be a bb'er (have you ever seen any of their videos??) as long as you eat properly (and in most cases take the needed amount of steroids). If all you want to do is look good then there is no need to ever worry about things like power or max strength. Who cares? All you need to do is lift in a manner that places tension on the muscles and somehow progresses load over a period of time as a means of increasing that tension. If you want to be an athlete then you need to really train in a manner that will get you the best results on the field.

**CowPimp** · 11-04-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benverner

I understand why to use periodization, what I don't get is why the hell you would do it all in the same week. I don't have any proof but I have a real hard time thinking your muscles and CNS can adapt to all those methods within the same week.

Yes, it can. That's how atheletes train. They often train multiple functions in the same session. Take a sport like football for example. You need size (Hypertrophy), power, speed, strength, endurance, and flexiblity.

Quote:

I have the same problem with women doing a heavy day and then a light day. If you are training for bigger muscles shouldn't you be TRAINING FOR BIGGER MUSCLES. I understand powerlifters do it as a method of perfecting technique and that makes perfect sense because they are TRAINING FOR COMPETITION. If you are training for bigger and stronger muscles, then train for bigger and stronger muscles.

I'm just not very agreeable today...oh, and I'm a horse's ass.

Training for size is not just lifting 3 sets of 8-12 repetitions all day long. Most lifters severely lack proper stimulation for type II-B fibers in their training (Explosive or 90%+ of 1RM). Also, improving neuromuscular efficiency is of primary importance (90%+ of 1RM) because it allows you to recruit a greater percentage of available motor units. The people with the greatest amount of lean body mass on the planet are sumo wrestlers, followed by powerlifters. These guys just don't look like it because they aren't cut. I guarantee you if they were to cut down they could rock the bodybuilding world.

Furthermore, it is a good idea to go light sometimes to properly stimulate slower twitch fibers, improve capillary and mitochondrial density, and subsequently improve the efficiency of your body's production of ATP and enhance recovery and strength-endurance via increased blood flow.

**P-funk** · 11-04-2005, 01:28 PM

and also, to follow that up....

You are giving me (us) your opinion. I am not giving you my opinion and I am not giving you anythign anecdotal and saying "this is what worked for me.". I am giving your sceintific fact. I am not making this stuff up. I have horders of book, magazines and NSCA journals lying around my apt. with studies (like what Dale posted) that back this up.

benverner · 11-04-2005, 01:59 PM

you are correct, I will never question you again...

I never said what I was saying was fact, I was merely questioning the logic and why a guy who just wants to get bigger and stronger and not compete is BEST served by doing a workout like that.

I understand what you are regurgitating perfectly and I completely see how it applies to you, I don't see how it is BEST for someone lifting for size and strength.

When people are fanatical about something like say powerlifting or say full body workouts it tends to get shoved down peoples throats. I was merely questioning why workouts like these would be BEST for his or my goals. I mean, you're the first one to give creedence to any form of exercise depending on the person's goals.

Now if his post were "I've bottomed out and I only have 4 days in a row to lift each week", I would be all for throwing something like this in for a month. He was asking about a split not a new training method right?

I'm only sticking my nose in here because the poster and I have the same goals, I want to see if I'm missing the boat and why everyone isn't on a three day hoop-dy-hoop as you described. If I was stuck and the hoop-dy-hoop would help me out then sign me up!

Don't be so defensive man, it really wasn't directed at you. I asked for an education on why someone not competing would train on a schedule like you mentioned, and why it would be more benefical. I still don't see where it says it's the best method to train for those goals. We're still talking about a 4 day periodization right?

Incognegro · 11-04-2005, 02:45 PM

I train 3 days in a row.

Monday-Chest
Tues- Back
Wed-Shoulders
Thurs-Recovery
Fri-Recovery
Sat-Arms/Legs
Sun- Recovery

Fits me perfectly! I prefer working one bodypart (well try to w/ direct work, not counting indirect effects, like biceps when you do back) per work out.

J

benverner · 11-04-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incognegro

I train 3 days in a row.

Monday-Chest
Tues- Back
Wed-Shoulders
Thurs-Recovery
Fri-Recovery
Sat-Arms/Legs
Sun- Recovery

Fits me perfectly! I prefer working one bodypart (well try to w/ direct work, not counting indirect effects, like biceps when you do back) per work out.

J

Thanks!

**IainDaniel** · 11-04-2005, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benverner

you are correct, I will never question you again...

I never said what I was saying was fact, I was merely questioning the logic and why a guy who just wants to get bigger and stronger and not compete is BEST served by doing a workout like that.

I understand what you are regurgitating perfectly and I completely see how it applies to you, I don't see how it is BEST for someone lifting for size and strength.

When people are fanatical about something like say powerlifting or say full body workouts it tends to get shoved down peoples throats. I was merely questioning why workouts like these would be BEST for his or my goals. I mean, you're the first one to give creedence to any form of exercise depending on the person's goals.

Now if his post were "I've bottomed out and I only have 4 days in a row to lift each week", I would be all for throwing something like this in for a month. He was asking about a split not a new training method right?

I'm only sticking my nose in here because the poster and I have the same goals, I want to see if I'm missing the boat and why everyone isn't on a three day hoop-dy-hoop as you described. If I was stuck and the hoop-dy-hoop would help me out then sign me up!

Don't be so defensive man, it really wasn't directed at you. I asked for an education on why someone not competing would train on a schedule like you mentioned, and why it would be more benefical. I still don't see where it says it's the best method to train for those goals. We're still talking about a 4 day periodization right?

Kind of a prickish response for some one who knows nothing about either of the posters. Rock and P-funk have worked together a few times on programs that suit Rocco. P-funk of anyone who understands these programs, would have the best understanding as what might work with Rocco

benverner · 11-04-2005, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Kind of a prickish response for some one who knows nothing about either of the posters. Rock and P-funk have worked together a few times on programs that suit Rocco. P-funk of anyone who understands these programs, would have the best understanding as what might work with Rocco

I'll agree with you on that...perhaps a PM and the pissing contest would have been avoided.

If he's a powerlifter and didn't say it then shame on me for saying I have the same goals.

Oh, and I merely asked why?

As far a prickish responses and personal attacks go you might want to check out p's references to me and my body building practices.

**P-funk** · 11-04-2005, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benverner

I'll agree with you on that...perhaps a PM and the pissing contest would have been avoided.

If he's a powerlifter and didn't say it then shame on me for saying I have the same goals.

Oh, and I merely asked why?

As far a prickish responses and personal attacks go you might want to check out p's references to me and my body building practices.

I attacked you?

**P-funk** · 11-04-2005, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benverner

you are correct, I will never question you again...

I don't care about getting questioned. That is what I do. I answer questions. I answered yours the best that I could

I never said what I was saying was fact, I was merely questioning the logic and why a guy who just wants to get bigger and stronger and not compete is BEST served by doing a workout like that.

He competes! He is a powerlifter. Did you miss the part where I stated that? He is an athlete...not a bb'er. I thought I alreaday said that.

I understand what you are regurgitating perfectly and I completely see how it applies to you, I don't see how it is BEST for someone lifting for size and strength.

If you see what I am REGURGITATING then why are you asking me to waste my time explaining myself. If you are that smart then come up with a program that will give him better contest numbers and size. Lifting for strength requires two things a maximum effort and a high power output (and accessory work ofcourse...ie hypertrophy). That is why I advocated to him to train that way. What applies to me applies to him since, even though we compete in different strength sports, they are strength sports none the less.

When people are fanatical about something like say powerlifting or say full body workouts it tends to get shoved down peoples throats. I was merely questioning why workouts like these would be BEST for his or my goals. I mean, you're the first one to give creedence to any form of exercise depending on the person's goals.

I am fanatical about this stuff. I always give advice to people dependant on their goals. If they are training to be a bb'er I usually say a total body routine or a split routine (like I laid out up there) are fine. His goals clearly aren't your goals so don't group them that way. Did you miss the part were I said this:

Quote:

For a bb'er though, linear periodization would be fine since it has nothing to do with being an athlete. All you have to do is look a certain way. You can train like a complete jack ass and still be a bb'er (have you ever seen any of their videos??) as long as you eat properly (and in most cases take the needed amount of steroids). If all you want to do is look good then there is no need to ever worry about things like power or max strength. Who cares? All you need to do is lift in a manner that places tension on the muscles and somehow progresses load over a period of time as a means of increasing that tension.

Do you read only what you want to read? Are you just doing this shit to bug me?

Now if his post were "I've bottomed out and I only have 4 days in a row to lift each week", I would be all for throwing something like this in for a month. He was asking about a split not a new training method right?

His training method is conjugate right now (westide BB template which is a 4 day routine.). Why would he change his method to some bull shit hypertrophy work when the template has worked so well in increasing his strength. His sport is powerlifting. How many athletes have you ever trained?

I'm only sticking my nose in here because the poster and I have the same goals, I want to see if I'm missing the boat and why everyone isn't on a three day hoop-dy-hoop as you described. If I was stuck and the hoop-dy-hoop would help me out then sign me up!

No, you don't have the same goals. Maybe you would see some results if you were more open minded to other training ideas? You probably know very little about your own training let alone training someone else.

Don't be so defensive man, it really wasn't directed at you. I asked for an education on why someone not competing would train on a schedule like you mentioned, and why it would be more benefical. I still don't see where it says it's the best method to train for those goals. We're still talking about a 4 day periodization right?

I am being defensive because you fire back with the same questions that I already answered adn then tell me you know what I am regurgitating. If you know so much then why do you ask? How many different types of people have you ever trained? Every time I make a post about someones training and give my advice you try and bust my ass about it and I always answer your questions. The answers are right there on the page! Just read them! It is a forum for opinionis. I give my opinion about how to train an athlete and you give yours. I never say it is wrong. I just state my own. Don't worry, people will read both of our opinions and they will know who's to folllow.

Don't take this personally. I just get peeved when I waste my time trying to help people out and answer questions and then I get fucking blasted by others who don't even give any of their own opinions with valid reason.

soxmuscle · 11-05-2005, 01:51 PM

rocco, what about doing HIT?

**P-funk** · 11-05-2005, 01:56 PM

HIT is always a fun change of pace for a few weeks. Don't know about staying with it for to long though just because I would burn out after awhile.

The only problem i see with HIT for a powerlifter is that he needs to have a day where he works on the technique/power of his lifts. If his technique is good his lifts will be better. With HIT workouts there is no day to really focus on that because it is so balls to the wall!

**CowPimp** · 11-05-2005, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

HIT is always a fun change of pace for a few weeks. Don't know about staying with it for to long though just because I would burn out after awhile.

The only problem i see with HIT for a powerlifter is that he needs to have a day where he works on the technique/power of his lifts. If his technique is good his lifts will be better. With HIT workouts there is no day to really focus on that because it is so balls to the wall!

I agree. It feels nice to take a break from HIT for a while. As well, HIT isn't all that great for strength endurance. However, I must admit I did make some pretty nice progress on a lot of lifts. It's just not something I would choose to stick with for more than a mesocycle, and that's pushing it.

Rocco32 · 11-05-2005, 04:52 PM

Yeah, I don't think I'll go the HIT way. Thanks for everyone's advice in this thread!! Lot's of good information.

I think I'll go with Patrick's split of:

Power/Speed
Strength
Off
Hypertrophy

If you don't mind Patrick, I'll PM you later if you'll help me set this up correctly. Is that alright?

**P-funk** · 11-05-2005, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocco32

Yeah, I don't think I'll go the HIT way. Thanks for everyone's advice in this thread!! Lot's of good information.

I think I'll go with Patrick's split of:

Power/Speed
Strength
Off
Hypertrophy

If you don't mind Patrick, I'll PM you later if you'll help me set this up correctly. Is that alright?

yea or we can do it in your journal if you want. either way.

Rocco32 · 11-06-2005, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

yea or we can do it in your journal if you want. either way.

Alright, cool. We'll do it in my journal! Thanks Patrick.

11-04-2005, 01:28 PM	#33
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,622	and also, to follow that up.... You are giving me (us) your opinion. I am not giving you my opinion and I am not giving you anythign anecdotal and saying "this is what worked for me.". I am giving your sceintific fact. I am not making this stuff up. I have horders of book, magazines and NSCA journals lying around my apt. with studies (like what Dale posted) that back this up.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

11-04-2005, 02:45 PM	#35
Incognegro SFR Bike Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: South FL Posts: 360	I train 3 days in a row. Monday-Chest Tues- Back Wed-Shoulders Thurs-Recovery Fri-Recovery Sat-Arms/Legs Sun- Recovery Fits me perfectly! I prefer working one bodypart (well try to w/ direct work, not counting indirect effects, like biceps when you do back) per work out. J
	My New Journal For 2006, Please Comment! I work too hard in the gym to stifle my results by eating shit. Thanks fufu.

11-05-2005, 01:51 PM	#41
soxmuscle do work son Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: I will eat your face Posts: 8,541 Photos: 10	rocco, what about doing HIT?
	Age: 20 \| Height: 5'7" \| Weight: 150 lbs \| Penis: 12 inches

11-05-2005, 01:56 PM	#42
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,622	HIT is always a fun change of pace for a few weeks. Don't know about staying with it for to long though just because I would burn out after awhile. The only problem i see with HIT for a powerlifter is that he needs to have a day where he works on the technique/power of his lifts. If his technique is good his lifts will be better. With HIT workouts there is no day to really focus on that because it is so balls to the wall!
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

11-05-2005, 04:52 PM	#44
Rocco32 UNLEASH THE BEAST Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 22,313 Photos: 18	Yeah, I don't think I'll go the HIT way. Thanks for everyone's advice in this thread!! Lot's of good information. I think I'll go with Patrick's split of: Power/Speed Strength Off Hypertrophy If you don't mind Patrick, I'll PM you later if you'll help me set this up correctly. Is that alright?
	I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain...

11-04-2005, 01:59 PM	#34
benverner Catabolic Idiot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Baltimore Posts: 151	you are correct, I will never question you again... I never said what I was saying was fact, I was merely questioning the logic and why a guy who just wants to get bigger and stronger and not compete is BEST served by doing a workout like that. I understand what you are regurgitating perfectly and I completely see how it applies to you, I don't see how it is BEST for someone lifting for size and strength. When people are fanatical about something like say powerlifting or say full body workouts it tends to get shoved down peoples throats. I was merely questioning why workouts like these would be BEST for his or my goals. I mean, you're the first one to give creedence to any form of exercise depending on the person's goals. Now if his post were "I've bottomed out and I only have 4 days in a row to lift each week", I would be all for throwing something like this in for a month. He was asking about a split not a new training method right? I'm only sticking my nose in here because the poster and I have the same goals, I want to see if I'm missing the boat and why everyone isn't on a three day hoop-dy-hoop as you described. If I was stuck and the hoop-dy-hoop would help me out then sign me up! Don't be so defensive man, it really wasn't directed at you. I asked for an education on why someone not competing would train on a schedule like you mentioned, and why it would be more benefical. I still don't see where it says it's the best method to train for those goals. We're still talking about a 4 day periodization right?

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