Thread: To anyone age 14-18

i wish it was the other way around - eating shit loads every day is so much harder than the training!!!

that it is, its a full time job if you do it well. It requires preparation and planning which is why most HS guys can't get it right...hell, its why most guys can't get it right.

Diet is indeed paramount to gaining size. With the metabolism that most highschool atheletes have, they just have to shovel down as much as they can!

I do, however, disagree that you should only hit muscles 2x per week maximum. If implemented properly, you can successfully hit the same muscle groups 3 or more times per week. Although I wouldn't just do bench press 3 times per week, and you definitely have the alter the volume of each workout accordingly, it is still a very viable way to train for size.

I couldn't disagree with you more CP

That's me personally having done it and seeing no results and also me talking out my ass. If someone is training for size I see no reason that a full body 3x a week is the BEST thing past the first 6 weeks. Even here I say it is valuable for learning form and preparring tendons etc for the upcomming loads. It might be viable but there is nothing that anyone can say that can convince me otherwise. Outside of maybe Ronnie Coleman coming out and admitting he's been on a 3x full body for the past 20 years. Even then I'd blame it on the gear. Just me man, I know you and P are all up on it for some good reasons I'm sure. I'd take a month off before I did 4 weeks of that.

I do have a funny story on that note though.

A friend of mine was doing a full body routine his college trainer gave him. Here's the thing, he had to do it everyday...but hitting different areas of the muscles. He'd have an exercise for chest, back, bi's, tri's, shoulders, legs. For example his chest workout:
Day 1 Flat BB Bench
Day 2 Flies
Day 3 Incline DB
Day 4 Incline Flies
Day 5 Dips
all 4x8

You get the picture...

I think I'll try it for the next 8 weeks or at least until my shoulders fall off.

Originally Posted by benverner

I couldn't disagree with you more CP

That's me personally having done it and seeing no results and also me talking out my ass. If someone is training for size I see no reason that a full body 3x a week is the BEST thing past the first 6 weeks. Even here I say it is valuable for learning form and preparring tendons etc for the upcomming loads. It might be viable but there is nothing that anyone can say that can convince me otherwise. Outside of maybe Ronnie Coleman coming out and admitting he's been on a 3x full body for the past 20 years. Even then I'd blame it on the gear. Just me man, I know you and P are all up on it for some good reasons I'm sure. I'd take a month off before I did 4 weeks of that.

There are lots of successful training protocols that advocate full body routines. Muscles generally fully repair within 24-48 hours after lifting. This may be more like 72 hours on a split routine because of the excessive microtrauma you cause, but 24-48 hours is plenty on a properly planned full body routine.

The benefits of a full body routine include increased protein synthesis, greater endocrine response (Insulin like growth factor, prostaglandins, etc.), the ability to apply stimulus more frequently, improved cardiorespiratory conditioning, etc.

The reason why most people are unsuccessful with full body routines, if they try them, is that they don't know how to properly implement one. They try to perform a split routine level of volume for every muscle every session. Wrong.

Ah ha...knuckleheads like me that need to feel completely blown up after lifting. I see your point and I understand how it can work, I don't think the majority of people will find it works BEST for them.

Originally Posted by benverner

I couldn't disagree with you more CP

That's me personally having done it and seeing no results and also me talking out my ass. If someone is training for size I see no reason that a full body 3x a week is the BEST thing past the first 6 weeks. Even here I say it is valuable for learning form and preparring tendons etc for the upcomming loads. It might be viable but there is nothing that anyone can say that can convince me otherwise. Outside of maybe Ronnie Coleman coming out and admitting he's been on a 3x full body for the past 20 years. Even then I'd blame it on the gear. Just me man, I know you and P are all up on it for some good reasons I'm sure. I'd take a month off before I did 4 weeks of that.

I agree Good post

3x a week per muscle group is way too much!!
I know of nobody who has done that type of training that ever got big or strong ( and thats over 25 years...of Olympic, power lifting and bodybuilding people I have known)......except some teen who had just started training.....
Like you said the kids with little or no experience can do anything and grow...

Preaching up how great a workout is just doesn't hold any water with me when you are 17 or 18.......hell I trained wrong at that age and still hit a raw natural 400lbs on bench at 19..
Didn't really discover how to train till my mid 20's.....why??? because I didn't have to....youth is wonderful and forgiving of mistakes

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

I agree Good post

3x a week per muscle group is way too much!!
I know of nobody who has done that type of training that ever got big or strong ( and thats over 25 years...of Olympic, power lifting and bodybuilding people I have known)......except some teen who had just started training.....
Like you said the kids with little or no experience can do anything and grow...

Preaching up how great a workout is just doesn't hold any water with me when you are 17 or 18.......hell I trained wrong at that age and still hit a raw natural 400lbs on bench at 19..
Didn't really discover how to train till my mid 20's.....why??? because I didn't have to....youth is wonderful and forgiving of mistakes

You've never heard of the insane training regimens that some Eastern block atheletes do that consist of training twice per day 5-6 times per week? Gear or not, that is insane.

In fact, from what I can tell, virtually all olympic lifting routines involve pretty good stimulation of the lower body at least 3 or 4 times per week.

Furthermore, there are powerlifters who do nothing but bench press, deadlift, and squat, but they do it 3-4, or even more, times per week. I believe Ed Coan does something along these lines.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

You've never heard of the insane training regimens that some Eastern block atheletes do that consist of training twice per day 5-6 times per week? Gear or not, that is insane.

In fact, from what I can tell, virtually all olympic lifting routines involve pretty good stimulation of the lower body at least 3 or 4 times per week.

Furthermore, there are powerlifters who do nothing but bench press, deadlift, and squat, but they do it 3-4, or even more, times per week. I believe Ed Coan does something along these lines.

Ed Coan trained at Quads gym in Chicago 1997-1999......and thats where I trained at that time...
Never saw him hit any muscle more than 2x a week......don't have to read about it in a book or interview....I saw it every week.

And as I have posted several times before American Olympic lifters for the most part do not hit each muscle 3x a week.......working with very light weights to develop technique is not weight lifting...The Discovery channel has a great in depth documentary on their training.......no 3x a week lifting at all.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Ed Coan trained at Quads gym in Chicago 1997-1999......and thats where I trained at that time...
Never saw him hit any muscle more than 2x a week......don't have to read about it in a book or interview....I saw it every week.

And as I have posted several times before American Olympic lifters for the most part do not hit each muscle 3x a week.......working with very light weights to develop technique is not weight lifting...The Discovery channel has a great in depth documentary on their training.......no 3x a week lifting at all.

Good post!

technique training is definitely different, if you are not competing it should be a rest day IMO. Kind of like doing a 4 day upper/lower/rest/upper light/lower light, depending on your goals you should rest that day or bang it out again.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

I agree Good post

3x a week per muscle group is way too much!!
I know of nobody who has done that type of training that ever got big or strong

P-funk, and I'm pretty sure he has seen it work well on a few people himself.

when i was liek 16-18 i would do benchwork like 4 or 5 times a week, im kickn myself for that shit now

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Ed Coan trained at Quads gym in Chicago 1997-1999......and thats where I trained at that time...
Never saw him hit any muscle more than 2x a week......don't have to read about it in a book or interview....I saw it every week.

And as I have posted several times before American Olympic lifters for the most part do not hit each muscle 3x a week.......working with very light weights to develop technique is not weight lifting...The Discovery channel has a great in depth documentary on their training.......no 3x a week lifting at all.

Okay, well first of all American olympic lifters don't all train the same way. Patrick is being coached by someone who has him on a routine that calls for hitting his lower body 4 times per week. As far as I know, they live in America.

Second, America is not the only country in existence. So, even if the majority of our training is done one way here, that doesn't make it the best. Take Westside for example. It is based off Russian periodization principles. It is the premier powerlifting routine in existence right now.

How about strongman training? Every session these guys perform is full body. Hell, they do all kinds of full body movements in addition to lifting barbells and dumbbells. They push cars, lift boulders, lift sandbags overhead, etc. These types of activities will stress all the major muscle groups in the body. These guys are strong and jacked to the hilt. Some of them train well in excess of 3 times per week.

I'm not trying to tell you to train like this. You can do the push-pull-legs split for all of eternity if you please. It's an effective split. The point is, full body routines are not just for 17 year olds with raging hormones. It can be effective for anyone no matter what your goals are.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Okay, well first of all American olympic lifters don't all train the same way. I didn't say they did Patrick is being coached by someone who has him on a routine that calls for hitting his lower body 4 times per week. As far as I know, they live in America. I respect Patrick's opinion

Second, America is not the only country in existence.I didn't say that it was,,,,,,,living in America gives a clearer in-site into how people in our country train......most of us here have no idea how they train in Namibia So, even if the majority of our training is done one way here, that doesn't make it the best. Take Westside for example. It is based off Russian periodization principles. It is the premier powerlifting routine in existence right now. Thats just an opinion

How about strongman training? Every session these guys perform is full body. Hell, they do all kinds of full body movements in addition to lifting barbells and dumbbells My buddy in Chicago competes in strong man.....he will be at the April comp in Chicago in 2006.....he does not train each muscle 3x a week. They push cars, lift boulders, lift sandbags overhead, etc. These types of activities will stress all the major muscle groups in the body. These guys are strong and jacked to the hilt. Some of them train well in excess of 3 times per week. Thats just your opinion....and they are on 2000mg test a week and 10IU of growth....most of us don't do that

I'm not trying to tell you to train like this You push that type of training and I try and discourage it.....might as well tell the truth for both of us. You can do the push-pull-legs split for all of eternity if you please. It's an effective split. The point is, full body routines are not just for 17 year olds with raging hormones. It can be effective for anyone no matter what your goals are.100% not true

To address your comments:

Whether or not you think Westside is the premier powerlifting routine, you cannot deny that it is highly successful. It has produced a massive number of huge lifters, and it is obviously effective.

Your buddy in Chicago is not the only strongman there is. Some of them do train that way. Take Mariusz Pudzianowski. He trains with a full body routine in the morning and a strongman competition type session in the evening many days per week. Yeah, he's most likely on the sauce, but the point is that even if you only have 1/3 of his recuperative abilities, you can apply a full body routine with success.

Yes, I advocate full body routines. However, when people are asking about split routines I usually try to critique while keeping their split as close to the original as possible (Assuming it's not something ridiculous like legs-back-chest one day and arms-abs another day). I don't discount the effectiveness of split routines outright like you do with full body routines.

prove it

I didn't say he was

Pudzianowski is on more drugs than I even want to know about.....and he is in Chicago right now.....I'll ask my buddy to ask him about the 3x a week shit.....that if he gets the chance to...he talked to him a few days ago.....going to a show or demonstration tomorrow.....think my bro is going to do some events also.....so he might get a chance to bother him with a few silly questions.

Im sorry but a lot of this is crap.

I train three times a week. i dont even suffer from sorness. i recover so well because i read up and do my homework. Im gona change the way people look at this. Because the world is just getting ridiculous with training.

The funniest and most ridiculous term ive ever herad is blitzing a muscle from all angles. lolololololololol

if you want to gain mass its the same as any age. come to me and ill make you put on 30lbs in a matter of 2 months. and same story the next 2 months.

Originally Posted by UltimateFighter

Im sorry but a lot of this is crap.

I train three times a week. i dont even suffer from sorness. i recover so well because i read up and do my homework. Im gona change the way people look at this. Because the world is just getting ridiculous with training.

The funniest and most ridiculous term ive ever herad is blitzing a muscle from all angles. lolololololololol

if you want to gain mass its the same as any age. come to me and ill make you put on 30lbs in a matter of 2 months. and same story the next 2 months.

Sorry I dont use GH or Steroids

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

prove it

The gym itself, Westside Barbell, has 64 members with what is considered to be an elite total in powerlifting. Go to the official Westside website for exact numbers and a list of names.

That is certainly impressive, but it doesn't even begin to tell the amazing stories of the strength improvements that your average lifter can see. Just look at the journal's section on this site. Every Westside journal is filled with personal records.

I didn't say he was

Pudzianowski is on more drugs than I even want to know about.....and he is in Chicago right now.....I'll ask my buddy to ask him about the 3x a week shit.....that if he gets the chance to...he talked to him a few days ago.....going to a show or demonstration tomorrow.....think my bro is going to do some events also.....so he might get a chance to bother him with a few silly questions.

His routine is on his own official website, and he workouts out more than 3x per week. I'm talking twice per day several times per week.

I am benching three times a week and each week i am seeing 10lbs or more increases in my working sets. I wonder where people get all this hand me down knowledge. a lot of it being in this very thread im sorry to say. I never did listen to anyone. I once did listen to one guy and the way he made me train was ridiculous. It is not about how much work the muscle can do but how little it takes to stimulate the muscle groups. and with a method i read about recently..not new but i found it out and something lcicked. you dont even need to work out for more than a few minutes in total.

Also.....the amount of exericses isnt big. nor is my diet variety. lmao. the world has taken things to an extreme and too far!

if you wanna know more email me: cdybs@hotmail.com

ill get rid of shit!

Originally Posted by CowPimp

The gym itself, Westside Barbell, has 64 members with what is considered to be an elite total in powerlifting. Go to the official Westside website for exact numbers and a list of names.

That is certainly impressive, but it doesn't even begin to tell the amazing stories of the strength improvements that your average lifter can see. Just look at the journal's section on this site. Every Westside journal is filled with personal records.




His routine is on his own official website, and he workouts out more than 3x per week. I'm talking twice per day several times per week.

I'm just f-ing with you....I respect your opinion.

Originally Posted by UltimateFighter

I am benching three times a week and each week i am seeing 10lbs or more increases in my working sets. I wonder where people get all this hand me down knowledge. a lot of it being in this very thread im sorry to say. I never did listen to anyone. I once did listen to one guy and the way he made me train was ridiculous. It is not about how much work the muscle can do but how little it takes to stimulate the muscle groups. and with a method i read about recently..not new but i found it out and something lcicked. you dont even need to work out for more than a few minutes in total.

Also.....the amount of exericses isnt big. nor is my diet variety. lmao. the world has taken things to an extreme and too far!

if you wanna know more email me: cdybs@hotmail.com

ill get rid of shit!

Foreman, let's make babies.

Originally Posted by benverner

I couldn't disagree with you more CP

That's me personally having done it and seeing no results and also me talking out my ass. If someone is training for size I see no reason that a full body 3x a week is the BEST thing past the first 6 weeks. Even here I say it is valuable for learning form and preparring tendons etc for the upcomming loads. It might be viable but there is nothing that anyone can say that can convince me otherwise. Outside of maybe Ronnie Coleman coming out and admitting he's been on a 3x full body for the past 20 years. Even then I'd blame it on the gear. Just me man, I know you and P are all up on it for some good reasons I'm sure. I'd take a month off before I did 4 weeks of that.

I work my back in some way or another six times a week with my strength routine.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

I'm just f-ing with you....I respect your opinion.

Hahaha

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Yeah, he's most likely on the sauce, but the point is that even if you only have 1/3 of his recuperative abilities, you can apply a full body routine with success.

Ripped with 21" arms, strongest man in the world - eh yeah perhaps!

i began to change me diet so wasnt eatin carbs after 6 hi protein the lot. bt nw ive concentrated more on eatin alot of carbs im stil havin alot of protein bt im jst tryin 2 put mass on then if i want to concentrate on losing body fat when im bigger it might be a better idea because last thing i want 2 do now is lose muscle size