Thread: 190 lbs. and I look like shit.

I meant to say that I am going to try to cut back down to 180-185.

obviously clean up the diet....For me the most effective way is to do slow (not intense) cardio first thing in the morning w/ nothing in your stomach excepts thermogenics and a little water. This way you can hold on to your muscle.


Taking fat off quickly leads loss of muscle and LBM

Originally Posted by lnvanry

obviously clean up the diet....For me the most effective way is to do slow (not intense) cardio first thing in the morning w/ nothing in your stomach excepts thermogenics and a little water. This way you can hold on to your muscle.

That's not very good advice. This is a highly risky practice in the world of cutting. Is it effective? Yes. However, it is not worth it if you can achieve the same results without resorting to such measures. Furthermore, intense cardio is shown to be more effective at boosting basal metabolic rate and altering cellular metabolism to become more efficient at utilizing fat as fuel. This results from the massive surge in AMPk, which aerobic exercise simply does not produce compared to anaerobic exercise.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

That's not very good advice. This is a highly risky practice in the world of cutting. Is it effective? Yes. However, it is not worth it if you can achieve the same results without resorting to such measures. Furthermore, intense cardio is shown to be more effective at boosting basal metabolic rate and altering cellular metabolism to become more efficient at utilizing fat as fuel. This results from the massive surge in AMPk, which aerobic exercise simply does not produce compared to anaerobic exercise.

Look, listen to cowboy if you want run your ass off for long periods of time (30min+)....and go the "ultimate heathy" way.

the method that explained is what everyone in the sport of BB uses for the most part...just remember to eat clean and eat 15-20 after your morning cardio and calcuate your calorie intake correctly.

Originally Posted by lnvanry

Look, listen to cowboy if you want run your ass off for long periods of time (30min+)....and go the "ultimate heathy" way.

I suggested intense cardio. Sessions of interval training or sprinting should be kept to 20 minutes or less, or the intensity is lacking. You are the one who said to do "slow (not intense)" cardio.

the method that explained is what everyone in the sport of BB uses for the most part...just remember to eat clean and eat 15-20 after your morning cardio and calcuate your calorie intake correctly.

Although I don't know that everyone in the sport of bodybuilding does this necessarily, you must also remember a couple of important items about pro body builders. One, they are juiced up; their additional boost in anabolic hormones makes performing cardio as you have suggested less problematic. "Hormone supplements" allow you to retain lean body mass more effectively. Two, bodybuilders are trying to reach inhuman body fat levels. Assuming this fellow's goal is something more reasonable (8% body fat or greater), then he probably won't have to resort to this method.

My point is that you should not perform cardio in a fasted state unless you have to. If you can reach your desired body composition without using such risky methods, then why shouldn't you?

Originally Posted by CowPimp

bodybuilders are trying to reach inhuman body fat levels. Assuming this fellow's goal is something more reasonable (8% body fat or greater), then he probably won't have to resort to this method.

My point is that you should not perform cardio in a fasted state unless you have to. If you can reach your desired body composition without using such risky methods, then why shouldn't you?

good counterpoint...I don't know about it being risky though. It's just a lot harder to get up and go do cardio w/ no food or liquids (except a little water)

Peforming cardio in a fasted state in hands down the most effective way either way you put it. In fact, I don't even do cardio unless its this way; otherwise, it feels futile and slow.

I guess I'll take my opinions back to the anabolic forum JK

Originally Posted by lnvanry

good counterpoint...I don't know about it being risky though. It's just a lot harder to get up and go do cardio w/ no food or liquids (except a little water)

Peforming cardio in a fasted state in hands down the most effective way either way you put it. In fact, I don't even do cardio unless its this way; otherwise, it feels futile and slow.

I guess I'll take my opinions back to the anabolic forum JK

I agree that it is effective. There is no doubt about it. Your body has virtually no choice but to use stored energy in order to fuel your workout.

However, in the case you are presenting, your blood sugar levels would be quite low. Therefore, your body has no choice but to breakdown muscle tissue in order to generate the components necessary for proper operation of aerobic metabolism, and more specifically the citric acid cycle, which can most efficiently feed ATP synthesis via oxidative phosphorylation. Although amino acids are the most inefficient of energy sources, they are also the most versatile.

Yes, fat can be broken down in order to generate these products, but not fast enough to keep up with the demands of even low intensity exercise. This can be prevented to some degree by having a little bit of protein, which should ideally be a source rich in BCAAs, before you perform the exercise. This will give your body a more readily available source of amino acids than that which is stored in muscle tissue. It will also supress catabolic hormones to some degree.

gain more muscle then cut

Originally Posted by CowPimp

However, in the case you are presenting, your blood sugar levels would be quite low. Therefore, your body has no choice but to breakdown muscle tissue in order to generate the components necessary for proper operation of aerobic metabolism, and more specifically the citric acid cycle, which can most efficiently feed ATP synthesis via oxidative phosphorylation. Although amino acids are the most inefficient of energy sources, they are also the most versatile.

Yes, fat can be broken down in order to generate these products, but not fast enough to keep up with the demands of even low intensity exercise. This can be prevented to some degree by having a little bit of protein, which should ideally be a source rich in BCAAs, before you perform the exercise. This will give your body a more readily available source of amino acids than that which is stored in muscle tissue. It will also supress catabolic hormones to some degree.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Ive been on both sides of this fence before. And yes it can work, but with extreme care. Shit, I remember an obese friend of mine did a shitload of cardio first then weightlift right afterwards with NO intake prior to working out. She slimmed down for sure, but he didnt get shredded. He lost muscle. And the person asking isnt obese, but to agree, yes it can work.

Also, if this were a bit of advice to be shared, then what would one suggest a person eat throughout the day after the empty stomach-equipped cardio session?

Fat loss=calorie intake<calorie burned.

I'm not a big cardio expert but I never train after not eating for 8-10 hours.....I would wake up in the morning and have a very small and easy to digest meal.....1/2 cup oats and a few egg whites ( 29 carbs, 3 fat, 20 protein) or whey....then do the road work 30-45 min after after eating..

Originally Posted by lnvanry

the method that explained is what everyone in the sport of BB uses for the most part...

Oh, okay. Well, if bodybuilders use it, it MUST be healthy AND smart! I'm going to start tomorrow!

Never be stupid enough to do something just because everyone else is. That's the worst reason in the world.

I think that all of you have a point. What seems to work best for me during a cut is to have 1 scoop of whey in water and then do my cardio. Whether 45 min's of a brisk walk or 20 min's of HITT cardio is best, who cares as long as the job gets done. I prefer a couple of weeks of HITT and a couple of weeks at a 45 min pace. I like to alternate them.

Have any of you ever seen the picture "Rocky". First thing out of bed pound down those raw eggs and off to stairway to heaven run


Tough

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

I think that all of you have a point. What seems to work best for me during a cut is to have 1 scoop of whey in water and then do my cardio.

Yup, that's what I'm saying.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Yup, that's what I'm saying.

So if you do cardio when you wake up just have some whey and water.....could or should you throw in any carbs also......and how long after drinking the whey can you go run??

I would skip the carbs till after the workout, then feed them in.
I would say, 30 min? (so as to not cramp?)
same things...as my mom would say to not swim till 30 min after eating....

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

So if you do cardio when you wake up just have some whey and water.....could or should you throw in any carbs also......and how long after drinking the whey can you go run??

Well, I don't like the idea of either the fasted or protein-only method. However, you must realize that ingesting carbs does reduce the effectiveness of this type of exercise as far as utilizing fat to power the exercise itself is concerned.

Once you introduce carbs into the situation and bring your blood sugar levels back to normal, your are no longer forcing your body to tap into its energy reserves so readily. There is now enough glucose in your blood to provide the citric acid cycle with pyruvate & acetyl CoA and shuttle NADH & FADH2 to your mitochondria for proper operation of your aerobic energy system.

i don't think you look all that bad...

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

Oh, okay. Well, if bodybuilders use it, it MUST be healthy AND smart! I'm going to start tomorrow!

Never be stupid enough to do something just because everyone else is. That's the worst reason in the world.

OK PL w/ gloves during deads

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

i don't think you look all that bad...

Gay!





j/k.

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

i don't think you look all that bad...

when I read this....the thought that came to mind was that scene in the movie Tombstone...where Jason Priestly's character says:
"I think he's wonderful...."


Sorry Sox....

Originally Posted by Burner02

when I read this....the thought that came to mind was that scene in the movie Tombstone...where Jason Priestly's character says:
"I think he's wonderful...."


Sorry Sox....

thank you,thank you...I'll be playing the lounge all week...

ha well i'm just saying. yea he doesn't have the six pack anymore but it seems like outside of his stomach he's carrying quite a bit of muscle. looks like monstar a little.

yeah, I like being more cut than this.

I think after my exams are over I will start doing some cardio and cut out shitty foods, switch from beer to liquor...

For a medium to skinny built guy, I can't run worth shit. I get on the eliptical machine and can't do more than 8 minutes... I have read that you need to do about 20 minutes, but isn't that just to get your heart rate up rather than lose weight?

try walking for 15-20 in the morning..low intensity and you WILL keep you mass despite what cow says

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

ha well i'm just saying. yea he doesn't have the six pack anymore but it seems like outside of his stomach he's carrying quite a bit of muscle. looks like monstar a little.

I thought it was funny...

Naw...he does look good...I wanna burn back down to 190....180, actually...
I'z gotz lotsa work to do!

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Once you introduce carbs into the situation and bring your blood sugar levels back to normal, your are no longer forcing your body to tap into its energy reserves so readily. There is now enough glucose in your blood to provide the citric acid cycle with pyruvate & acetyl CoA and shuttle NADH & FADH2 to your mitochondria for proper operation of your aerobic energy system.

Hang on Hang on..

Explain this...

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Hang on Hang on..

Explain this...

Basically he is saying that:
When you run in a fasted state, your body must resort to fat for energy, because all of your food has been digested and absorbed, obviously.

But if you were to eat carbs and then run, then your body would feed off the energy provided by the carbs, instead of your stored fat cells.
Get it?