Recommendation for Chest/Tricep day routine?

**ActionMatt** · 03-29-2002, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by Scotty the Body
Even a slight change in grip or angle will make a difference of what muscle fibers are recruited so changing would be smart to work the entire muscle more evenly.
This also would include how fast or slow, the order, rest time between sets or how many reps and set you do.

The latter I can see. But joint angle and/or grip won't affect fiber recruitment in a single muscle. It will change the degree to which that muscle is involved in the movement as a whole, but not change the growth of the muscle. The tension necessary to cause growth is too high for the so-called compartmentalization effect to occur.

I still believe that ONE exercise will work but a combination is better for overall results.

If different exercises cause different patterns of growth, why even consider only doing one exercise?

**Scotty the Body** · 03-29-2002, 02:17 PM

But joint angle and/or grip won't affect fiber recruitment in a single muscle
So you don't think using a wider grip on flat bench will recrute more muscle fibers in the chest????

If different exercises cause different patterns of growth, why even consider only doing one exercise?
I wouldn't say they cause "different patterns", I would say that better overall growth will be the result of using diffrent exercises.

**ActionMatt** · 03-29-2002, 03:22 PM

Sure it will. But it wouldn't affect say one pectoral head over the other, which I thought you were trying to imply.

If I misunderstood, I apologize.

**Scotty the Body** · 03-29-2002, 04:04 PM

No problem!

I don't pretend to know everything and I don't believe there is any ONE thing that works for everyone, I'm just trying to find the shortest route to my goals and will always keep an open mind to new ideas.

**gopro** · 03-29-2002, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by ActionMatt

Why would that be?

Once you become overly neurally adapted to a movement your body will not respond as well to it. In a sense, your muscles will become "bored" with the movement pattern and no longer recruit more fibers even if more weight is used.

Overuse injuries occur when the same stress is placed on all of the attatchments over and over...sort of like a cable fraying from repeated friction.

**Robboe** · 03-29-2002, 06:00 PM

Oh, so to prevent injury you switch exercises so your muscles use their other tendons........

**ActionMatt** · 03-29-2002, 06:04 PM

LOL @ Chicken -- good point.

I also don't see why a muscle would use less fibers even with heavier weight, at least past a certain "introductory" phase to a movement, which doesn't last very long. There's no reason that accomodation would continue past that point.

**Robboe** · 03-29-2002, 06:10 PM

And how can your muscles become "bored" even when you are demanding more work from them?

The way you stop your muscles from getting "bored" is to ask more from them each week by adding reps or weight. Progressive overload.

If they got "bored" despite more weight being added and less muscle fibres were recruited it would mean, in theory, that heavier weights would be easier to move. Is this the case? No.

**gopro** · 03-30-2002, 11:54 AM

Oh children, children...so much to teach and so little time to do it. First, obviously you know nothing about "overuse injuries," which occur from repeated pressure at the exact same joint angles over and over.

Second, and I will do this just once...because I've already done it over at WBB where you Chicken and you Action are obviously from....once you become neurologically adapted to a given movement you will get better at it. Over time you will gain strength and muscle, but eventually, while you may continue to get stronger, you will start to get diminishing returns in terms of hypertrophy. Most people think that if they are getting stronger, they are getting bigger. This is no longer true once the only reason you are getting stronger is by "practicing" the same movement over and over. Eventually your nervous system will have learned the movement pattern so well, that it will no longer be forced to recruit MORE muscle fibers even if you lift more weight...which is unlikely anyway once your nervous system gets "bored."

Think of it like driving. At first you must really focus on everything you do in order to drive successfully. As time goes by, you think about it less and less, until eventually you can drive places while completely off in space thinking about something else. Your nervous system is so "good" at driving it barely needs to be focused on the task. Sometimes, if driving for distance, we may even be falling asleep, but still driving just fine.

Don't let your muscles fall asleep!

DONE WITH THIS ARGUMENT...bye, bye.

**Robboe** · 03-31-2002, 05:10 AM

Originally posted by gopro
Eventually your nervous system will have learned the movement pattern so well, that it will no longer be forced to recruit MORE muscle fibers even if you lift more weight...

lol. That is just not true.

**gopro** · 03-31-2002, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

lol. That is just not true.

Sorry, it is.

Oh, by the way...nice new signature line. I hope you don't think that I claim myself to be GOD, or that I claim to know everything there is to know about training...because NOBODY DOES!

But if you REALLY do want to know why inclines DO help the clavicular pectoralis grow, you'll HAVE to ask GOD himself...he made the rules...I didn't.

**Robboe** · 03-31-2002, 01:32 PM

Who said my sig was about you?

P.s. It's not true.

**ActionMatt** · 03-31-2002, 04:05 PM

I just want to know how the clavicular head can grow more when the whole muscle is contracting. That's all I ask.

**gopro** · 03-31-2002, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by ActionMatt
I just want to know how the clavicular head can grow more when the whole muscle is contracting. That's all I ask.

The problem with this question is that it depends on what you believe and how you decide to interpret both science and real world experience...

Some studies have shown that certain movements will target certain areas of a muscle more than others. This is especially true in more complex muscle groups.

Also, I can go to the gym and make my upper chest more sore than my lower chest. I can make the long head of my triceps more sore than my outer head.

Do you believe this is leading to more growth in these areas? Probably not. But I do. Not only do I know it instictively, but I have seen it over and over right in front of me.

End of story...

**Robboe** · 04-01-2002, 07:20 AM

Hey ActionMatt, that basically means he can't tell you

**gopro** · 04-01-2002, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Hey ActionMatt, that basically means he can't tell you

Wrong, I just told him! Why, do you need an article by some pencilneck in a lab suit from the " New England Journal of Medicine" to give you an answer you can live with?

**Robboe** · 04-01-2002, 10:46 AM

lol, now that was funny!

Ironic how you use "studies" in your reply but then you dismiss them again.

Also, soreness does not indicate growth.

**gopro** · 04-01-2002, 06:38 PM

I WILL occasionally quote a study, but I have said it here and I've said it at WBB...I will put my EXPERIENCE before any study in existence. Studies are not worthless, but they ARE NOT the holy grail.

And while soreness does not necessarily mean growth, it is a good indicator of where muscle damage has occured...and muscle that has been damaged must be repaired...often bigger and stronger.

**CJMAJOR** · 04-01-2002, 09:26 PM

He has got a point their!!

**Tank316** · 04-01-2002, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by gopro
I WILL occasionally quote a study, but I have said it here and I've said it at WBB...I will put my EXPERIENCE before any study in existence. Studies are not worthless, but they ARE NOT the holy grail.

And while soreness does not necessarily mean growth, it is a good indicator of where muscle damage has occured...and muscle that has been damaged must be repaired...often bigger and stronger.

i wish i would have said that. that was like POETRY.my training tells me ,yes inclines do work GP.and ya know what, that comes from an ole fart like me.

**Robboe** · 04-02-2002, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by gopro
And while soreness does not necessarily mean growth, it is a good indicator of where muscle damage has occured...and muscle that has been damaged must be repaired...often bigger and stronger.

But this just isn't true. Your photos are testament to it!

If you could cause uneven growth in one muscle then the muscle would be all lumpy and bumpy. Is this the case? No. Muscles are smooth and even for the most part.

**gopro** · 04-02-2002, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

But this just isn't true. Your photos are testament to it!

If you could cause uneven growth in one muscle then the muscle would be all lumpy and bumpy. Is this the case? No. Muscles are smooth and even for the most part.

My photos are testament to nothing...you have nothing to compare them to. Besides, muscles would not be lumpy and bumply because the growth is suttle and spread throughout an entire area. I never said you could cause one section of a muscle to explode with growth while leaving the rest completely behind. Also, you can't cause growth that is beyond what your genetics dictate, however, in order to achieve that genetic limit you must work all areas of a muscle.

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