Chin ups/Pull ups

cytrix · 08-21-2001, 05:55 PM

i still don't totally understand why back exercises should be done close grip, because the biceps is stronger in that position, but on the other hand, bench presses would be done with an at least shouderwide grip and elbows out, i mean, you could say, if you wanna minimize the triceps being the week link, to do chest presses elbows in, so the triceps would be in their strongest position. why does this apply to back only???

TheSupremeBeing · 08-22-2001, 04:58 AM

Not close grip, slightly wider than shoulder width.

It does apply to other compound exercises limited by the weak link.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

cytrix · 08-22-2001, 03:11 PM

TSB, so what you are saying is use a underhand grip, but still slightly wider than shoulder wide, correct? i've only seen people use a closer grip when doing anything underhand grip. it makes a lot of sense what you are saying, they should tell you this in the muscle mags. where did you get your knowledge?

cytrix · 08-22-2001, 03:14 PM

what about dumbell rows, how do you do those? also underhand or just vertical?

TheSupremeBeing · 08-22-2001, 03:37 PM

That's what I'm saying.

I don't do DB rows, but I'd do them plams facing my sides.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

bharminder · 08-24-2001, 01:07 PM

I didn't want to start a new subject, so I thought I'd just reply here...Sometimes I don't always have access to a gym..and i dont have a pull up bar at home..Other than buying one..what kind of substitute can i do for chins, if any?

Scotty the Body · 08-24-2001, 03:08 PM

If you have open beam you could use that, or the monkey bars at the local playground.

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Just another day in the gutter

bharminder · 08-24-2001, 06:34 PM

what can i do to get chins up? im HORRIBLE at these i realized today

bharminder · 08-24-2001, 06:45 PM

I can only do like 1-2 when i do them slightly wider than shoulder width...should I use lat pulldowns at a substitute?

**Prince** · 08-24-2001, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bharminder:
what can i do to get chins up? im HORRIBLE at these i realized today

Do you have someone available that can spot you?

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

ALBOB · 09-04-2001, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bharminder:3 sets of deadlifts
3 sets of chins(underhand slightly wider than shoulder width grip)
2 sets barbell row(underhand slightly wider than shoulder width grip)
2 sets shrugs

Not to re-open an old wound here, but aren't the shrugs redundant? You do them to work the traps, but you're already getting plenty of trap work from your deadlifts and to a lesser extent rows. I'd say bag the shrugs and add a set to your rows and chins. (I wouldn't recommend adding to the deads, if you're doing them to full intensity 3 sets is plenty.)

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Life is hard so quit whining and go out there and be alive.

bharminder · 09-06-2001, 07:11 PM

They probably are..I never do em...i always list em tho..heh i havent done them since april.

bharminder · 09-07-2001, 06:12 PM

I do have a question though...for anyone..I heard bent over rows are great for the lats..so why am i doing both chinups and bent over rows?

Scotty the Body · 09-08-2001, 07:11 AM

Its said that chins or pull downs are for width in the lats and rows are for thickness in the lats.

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Just another day in the gutter

TheSupremeBeing · 09-10-2001, 04:18 PM

That;s not a correct statement, but if you rephrased to: Chins build width in the back, and rows build thickness in the back...you'd be about right.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Scotty the Body · 09-12-2001, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:
That;s not a correct statement, but if you rephrased to: Chins build width in the back, and rows build thickness in the back...you'd be about right.

I stand corrected.

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Just another day in the gutter

<FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 1 time by Scotty the Body on 09-13-2001 at 12:05 PM]</font>

**Prince** · 09-13-2001, 08:11 AM

You're better than that Scotty.

Try not to sink to his level.

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

Maki Riddington · 09-13-2001, 11:02 AM

We forgive you for being a dickhead

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Exercise, my drug of choice

Maki Riddington · 09-13-2001, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:
That;s not a correct statement, but if you rephrased to: Chins build width in the back, and rows build thickness in the back...you'd be about right.

*** Really, I'd be interested to see where you picked this info up from?
Thickness and width comes from adding muscle not shaping with a specific exercise which is what you are insinuating. Scotty's statement was not off base. It may have been simply what he has found through personal experience.

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Exercise, my drug of choice

TheSupremeBeing · 09-13-2001, 08:52 PM

Chins focus on the lats, the lats, when developed, add width to the back.

Rows focus on the lower traps, rhomboids, rear delts and so on, and when developed this will add thickness to the back.

Do both, and you get both. Do one or the other, and you get both, but probably not to the same extent as doing both.

Scotty's statement was offbase, don't be silly.

Cya.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Scotty the Body · 09-13-2001, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince:
You're better than that Scotty.

Try not to sink to his level.

Your right and I corrected it,
I should have stayed away from the board yesterday, I was feeling bad about the hole US thing and I vented on TSB. Sorry all.

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Just another day in the gutter

ALBOB · 09-14-2001, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing: you pain in the ass

Has anyone EVER heard of a more perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black?

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Life is hard so quit whining and go out there and be alive.

Pianomahnn · 09-19-2001, 12:32 PM

So, I've been working on being able to do a one armed pullup, not a chin up. A one arm chin up is REALLY funky on the body.

Anyways, I'm soooooooo almost there. And I'm wondering, I'm 145 pounds, so if I do a one arm pullup, would that kind of be like me curling 290 pounds with both arms? I know they aren't really the same form, and stuff but it's kind of like the same muscles and stuff.

Yeah....there's no way I could curl 290 pounds.

Mesofreaky · 09-19-2001, 05:52 PM

about the benching elbows in thing this is much better and once you adapt to it you will find it far superior.

**Prince** · 09-19-2001, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mesofreaky
about the benching elbows in thing this is much better and once you adapt to it you will find it far superior.

Superior to what?

Pianomahnn · 09-19-2001, 10:13 PM

Superior to Mule's left nut.

Maki Riddington · 09-19-2001, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing
Chins focus on the lats, the lats, when developed, add width to the back.

Rows focus on the lower traps, rhomboids, rear delts and so on, and when developed this will add thickness to the back.

Do both, and you get both. Do one or the other, and you get both, but probably not to the same extent as doing both.

Scotty's statement was offbase, don't be silly.

*** Says who.....says you.
Don't start telling people when their off base when you yourself are throwing out personal opinions.

As for your assumption on what muscles are being emphasized you are generalizing.
What kind of chins, what is the hand position, the arch in the back, how are you pulling yourself to the bar?

I'll leave you with a knowledgable coach who is quoted to say the opposite of what you are saying.
Charles Poliquin states that chins add thickness not width.

Sun · 09-20-2001, 12:28 PM

I just browsed through the posts, I may sound redundant:

Overgrip leaves the biceps in a weaker position.
Undergrip will put them in a less compromising state, therefore... more reps/weight.

Bend your arm at 90, turn your palm out.
Now turn it inward. Look at your bicep. Compare.

But that's not the arguement I guess. It's whether or not it builds width or thickness. I think this is a really moot point. I'm going from personal experience ... please note that, PERSONAL experience...

Chins, Horizontal rows, 6 sets total for lats = fully developed lats. This is a vicious circle arguement like upper/lower chest. Just hit the muscle, and find what works for you. Most importantly, are you progressing?

It's that simple, really.

TheSupremeBeing · 09-20-2001, 03:59 PM

Get off the bandwagon Maki.

Have you ever done a chin or row? Jesus.

I do chins with an undergrip, slightly wider than shoulder width grip. This is the best way to do them, IMO. When I (and every other person in the world) do them, they focus on the lats. I do rows with an undergrip, slightly wider than shoulder width grip. I pull to just below my bottom ribs, and this focuses on the middle back region.

Besides, how the fuck do you thicken or widen a muscle? I always thought it just grows or shrinks. Pffft.

BTW, sup Sun?

Maki Riddington · 09-20-2001, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing
Get off the bandwagon Maki.

Have you ever done a chin or row? Jesus.

I do chins with an undergrip, slightly wider than shoulder width grip. This is the best way to do them, IMO. When I (and every other person in the world) do them, they focus on the lats. I do rows with an undergrip, slightly wider than shoulder width grip. I pull to just below my bottom ribs, and this focuses on the middle back region.

Besides, how the fuck do you thicken or widen a muscle? I always thought it just grows or shrinks. Pffft.

BTW, sup Sun?

*** Exactly Supreme.
How does one widen or thicken a muscle?
You seem to know since you stated what exercises do and don't.
I see you threw in a "IMO" now.

09-19-2001, 05:52 PM	#54
Mesofreaky Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: lake butler, fl, US Posts: 20	about the benching elbows in thing this is much better and once you adapt to it you will find it far superior.
	freaky people do freaky things to stay freaky

08-21-2001, 05:55 PM	#31
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	i still don't totally understand why back exercises should be done close grip, because the biceps is stronger in that position, but on the other hand, bench presses would be done with an at least shouderwide grip and elbows out, i mean, you could say, if you wanna minimize the triceps being the week link, to do chest presses elbows in, so the triceps would be in their strongest position. why does this apply to back only???

08-22-2001, 04:58 AM	#32
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Not close grip, slightly wider than shoulder width. It does apply to other compound exercises limited by the weak link. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-22-2001, 03:11 PM	#33
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	TSB, so what you are saying is use a underhand grip, but still slightly wider than shoulder wide, correct? i've only seen people use a closer grip when doing anything underhand grip. it makes a lot of sense what you are saying, they should tell you this in the muscle mags. where did you get your knowledge?

08-22-2001, 03:14 PM	#34
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	what about dumbell rows, how do you do those? also underhand or just vertical?

08-22-2001, 03:37 PM	#35
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	That's what I'm saying. I don't do DB rows, but I'd do them plams facing my sides. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

08-24-2001, 01:07 PM	#36
bharminder Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA Posts: 129	I didn't want to start a new subject, so I thought I'd just reply here...Sometimes I don't always have access to a gym..and i dont have a pull up bar at home..Other than buying one..what kind of substitute can i do for chins, if any?

08-24-2001, 03:08 PM	#37
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	If you have open beam you could use that, or the monkey bars at the local playground. ------------------ Just another day in the gutter

08-24-2001, 06:34 PM	#38
bharminder Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA Posts: 129	what can i do to get chins up? im HORRIBLE at these i realized today

08-24-2001, 06:45 PM	#39
bharminder Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA Posts: 129	I can only do like 1-2 when i do them slightly wider than shoulder width...should I use lat pulldowns at a substitute?

09-06-2001, 07:11 PM	#42
bharminder Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA Posts: 129	They probably are..I never do em...i always list em tho..heh i havent done them since april.

09-07-2001, 06:12 PM	#43
bharminder Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA Posts: 129	I do have a question though...for anyone..I heard bent over rows are great for the lats..so why am i doing both chinups and bent over rows?

09-08-2001, 07:11 AM	#44
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	Its said that chins or pull downs are for width in the lats and rows are for thickness in the lats. ------------------ Just another day in the gutter

09-10-2001, 04:18 PM	#45
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	That;s not a correct statement, but if you rephrased to: Chins build width in the back, and rows build thickness in the back...you'd be about right. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

09-13-2001, 08:11 AM	#47
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,749 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	You're better than that Scotty. Try not to sink to his level. ------------------ Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

09-13-2001, 11:02 AM	#48
Maki Riddington Fat Bastard Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 383	We forgive you for being a dickhead ------------------ Exercise, my drug of choice

09-13-2001, 08:52 PM	#50
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Chins focus on the lats, the lats, when developed, add width to the back. Rows focus on the lower traps, rhomboids, rear delts and so on, and when developed this will add thickness to the back. Do both, and you get both. Do one or the other, and you get both, but probably not to the same extent as doing both. Scotty's statement was offbase, don't be silly. Cya. ------------------ Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

09-19-2001, 12:32 PM	#53
Pianomahnn I bike to work. Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,224 Photos: 6	So, I've been working on being able to do a one armed pullup, not a chin up. A one arm chin up is REALLY funky on the body. Anyways, I'm soooooooo almost there. And I'm wondering, I'm 145 pounds, so if I do a one arm pullup, would that kind of be like me curling 290 pounds with both arms? I know they aren't really the same form, and stuff but it's kind of like the same muscles and stuff. Yeah....there's no way I could curl 290 pounds.

09-19-2001, 10:13 PM	#56
Pianomahnn I bike to work. Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,224 Photos: 6	Superior to Mule's left nut.

09-20-2001, 12:28 PM	#58
Sun Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 11	I just browsed through the posts, I may sound redundant: Overgrip leaves the biceps in a weaker position. Undergrip will put them in a less compromising state, therefore... more reps/weight. Bend your arm at 90, turn your palm out. Now turn it inward. Look at your bicep. Compare. But that's not the arguement I guess. It's whether or not it builds width or thickness. I think this is a really moot point. I'm going from personal experience ... please note that, PERSONAL experience... Chins, Horizontal rows, 6 sets total for lats = fully developed lats. This is a vicious circle arguement like upper/lower chest. Just hit the muscle, and find what works for you. Most importantly, are you progressing? It's that simple, really.

09-20-2001, 03:59 PM	#59
TheSupremeBeing Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chillin' in mah cribb, yo. Posts: 598	Get off the bandwagon Maki. Have you ever done a chin or row? Jesus. I do chins with an undergrip, slightly wider than shoulder width grip. This is the best way to do them, IMO. When I (and every other person in the world) do them, they focus on the lats. I do rows with an undergrip, slightly wider than shoulder width grip. I pull to just below my bottom ribs, and this focuses on the middle back region. Besides, how the fuck do you thicken or widen a muscle? I always thought it just grows or shrinks. Pffft. BTW, sup Sun?