Shoulders Undertrained?

Squaggleboggin · 11-23-2005, 06:15 PM

I would do some sort of overhead pressing being that I'm all for functional strength, but my left shoulder simply won't allow this, and I'd really prefer not to try and get injured in the process. I'm here to ask whether the exercises I do are enough for the shoulders (as in, they won't get disproportionally unbalanced strength-wise). The following is a list of exercises that involve my shoulders that are incorporated into my routine: Pull ups, chin ups, yates rows, reverse thumbless bottom BB benches (and I suppose front squats put pressure on them, but don't really work them). Does this seem like it's enough or do I really need to incorporate something else (most likely an overhead press)? Thanks for the feedback.

TJ Cline · 11-23-2005, 06:23 PM

So you do no direct shoulder work now???

**Dale Mabry** · 11-23-2005, 06:30 PM

Yeah, none of that is direct shoulder work, I imagine they would eventually get out of proportion. For me I know they would. Why can't you do any, even light, overhead pressing? You could prolly do front raise, lateral raise, rear delt raise to nail all 3 heads I s'pose, but I can't see an effective shoulder program without overhead pressing. Maybe if you did light overhead pressing your shoulder would eventually build up strength for the movement. I would rather do 10lbs presses than not be able to do it at all. So wtf is wrong with your left shoulder?

Squaggleboggin · 11-23-2005, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

So you do no direct shoulder work now???

Right, nothing direct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Yeah, none of that is direct shoulder work, I imagine they would eventually get out of proportion. For me I know they would. Why can't you do any, even light, overhead pressing? You could prolly do front raise, lateral raise, rear delt raise to nail all 3 heads I s'pose, but I can't see an effective shoulder program without overhead pressing. Maybe if you did light overhead pressing your shoulder would eventually build up strength for the movement. I would rather do 10lbs presses than not be able to do it at all. So wtf is wrong with your left shoulder?

I was afraid of that. I actually injured it in gym class a long time ago. It still isn't completely better and I'm just afraid of messing it up more. I guess I'll just have to very slowly try incorporating it into my routine. The only thing that bugs me is that everything is configured perfectly for me and I'm afraid adding another exercise won't be good. Oh well, I'll figure something out. Thanks for the help.

dougnukem · 11-23-2005, 07:07 PM

What about using DBs at a lower weight for overhead presses? I've had a nagging shoulder injury for years that I keep at bay with the use of DBs as opposed to BB workouts. I've been able to increase my lifting weights significantly w/ this approach.

Squaggleboggin · 11-23-2005, 07:33 PM

Strange how I didn't think of that even though I'm of the small minority that believes DBs are superior to BBs. Good thinking.

**CowPimp** · 11-23-2005, 08:03 PM

Be more specific about the issue with your shoulder. I'm also recovering from an issue, but I just slowly added weight over the course of several weeks. I started around 15 rep sets, moved to 10 for a while, and now I can do 5-7 if I make absolutely sure I keep my form on point.

You may also consider some exercises to increase the integrity of the shoulder capsule. Rotator cuff stuff is a good idea.

Squaggleboggin · 11-23-2005, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Be more specific about the issue with your shoulder. I'm also recovering from an issue, but I just slowly added weight over the course of several weeks. I started around 15 rep sets, moved to 10 for a while, and now I can do 5-7 if I make absolutely sure I keep my form on point.

You may also consider some exercises to increase the integrity of the shoulder capsule. Rotator cuff stuff is a good idea.

I wish I could be more specific, but I'm not quite sure what's wrong. I saw a sports medicine doctor and she didn't tell me the exact problem, but that it was fixable over a course of time. I think it's time for me to just start adding them in slowly. I've also been thinking about adding stuff for the rotator, but it annoys me doing those dumb band exercises haha.

camarosuper6 · 11-23-2005, 08:58 PM

I would take cows advice... most shoulder injuries seem to involve the rotator cuff. Get a good list of strengthening exercises and use them.

TheCurse · 11-24-2005, 12:42 AM

i dont do overhead presses and have never had them in my routines. i do however make sure to always to do direct rear delt work on back day and lateral delt work on chest day. i just happen to think it looks funny when your shoulders are pulled forward onto your pectorals.

**CowPimp** · 11-24-2005, 12:47 AM

You should also consider DB overhead presses with a hammer grip. Sometimes this helps reduce the strain on the shoulder capsule.

Squaggleboggin · 11-24-2005, 10:22 AM

Would a BB military press be enough? It doesn't look as though there is any single compound movement that hits each area of the shoulder (if there is, please tell me), and since I love compound stuff, I prefer to keep all my exercises compound. I'm thinking that since the military press hits the lateral deltoid and the chin up hits the posterior deltoid, I should be in pretty good shape. I'm thinking of trying snatches soon, but I need to make sure my shoulder can handle the weight in that position and I want to start strengthening it as soon as possible, even if the movement is unrelated. Thanks for all the help.

Tough Old Man · 11-24-2005, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Yeah, none of that is direct shoulder work, I imagine they would eventually get out of proportion. For me I know they would. Why can't you do any, even light, overhead pressing? You could prolly do front raise, lateral raise, rear delt raise to nail all 3 heads I s'pose, but I can't see an effective shoulder program without overhead pressing. Maybe if you did light overhead pressing your shoulder would eventually build up strength for the movement. I would rather do 10lbs presses than not be able to do it at all. So wtf is wrong with your left shoulder?

I agree with my drinking buddy completely here. As Foremanrules knows, I have a shoulder press machine. I used to be able to do a lot of weight on it until the rotator problem creeped up on me last year. So I have found that I have to stay under about 125 lbs to prevent pain. The other day i thought oh fuck this and went up to 175 lbs and did three sets of 12 reps. Well I suffered with shoulder pain the next three days.So back down I'll go. I also have to keeps reps under 8 or so. Any more then that and I don't give a shit if it's 90 lbs, I end up in pain.

dougnukem · 11-24-2005, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

You should also consider DB overhead presses with a hammer grip. Sometimes this helps reduce the strain on the shoulder capsule.

This would probably be the best route to go as far as overhead presses, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

I've also been thinking about adding stuff for the rotator, but it annoys me doing those dumb band exercises haha.

There are plenty of rotator exercises that don't involve rubber bands.

Squaggleboggin · 11-24-2005, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougnukem

This would probably be the best route to go as far as overhead presses, IMO.

Does anyone know how these would differently involve the muscles of the shoulder? I can't seem to find anything specific on how they work the shoulder in comparison to other presses (as in which deltoids are hit).

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougnukem

There are plenty of rotator exercises that don't involve rubber bands.

True, but it still bugs me for some reason doing exercises with tiny amounts of weight (as I'm assuming most of these do). I've already injured myself in gym class - I'd hate to get injured using a 5lb dumbbell or something. That would really annoy me.

dougnukem · 11-24-2005, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

Does anyone know how these would differently involve the muscles of the shoulder? I can't seem to find anything specific on how they work the shoulder in comparison to other presses (as in which deltoids are hit).

I know by doing them hammer style with the movement more towards the front of your shoulders, you decrease the distance your elbows are flared out during the movement. I read on another thread recently how this come into play as far as lessening the strain on the shoulder joint. I'll see if I can find it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

True, but it still bugs me for some reason doing exercises with tiny amounts of weight (as I'm assuming most of these do). I've already injured myself in gym class - I'd hate to get injured using a 5lb dumbbell or something. That would really annoy me.

Then use a can of soup or something at home. The exercises can be done while your watching TV, or when you get up in the morning, or whenever. It's not really a matter of doing a significant amount of weight, but just exercising the area all together.

Squaggleboggin · 11-24-2005, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougnukem

I know by doing them hammer style with the movement more towards the front of your shoulders, you decrease the distance your elbows are flared out during the movement. I read on another thread recently how this come into play as far as lessening the strain on the shoulder joint. I'll see if I can find it.

Thanks, I look forward to reading it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougnukem

Then use a can of soup or something at home. The exercises can be done while your watching TV, or when you get up in the morning, or whenever. It's not really a matter of doing a significant amount of weight, but just exercising the area all together.

Well said. It's not because of ego or something like that (I work out at home, so no one to even be embarrassed in front of), it just seems like it would really annoy me... Thanks for the idea. I'll probably use it.

**CowPimp** · 11-24-2005, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

Well said. It's not because of ego or something like that (I work out at home, so no one to even be embarrassed in front of), it just seems like it would really annoy me... Thanks for the idea. I'll probably use it.

Believe me, I feel your pain. There is something annoying about doing panzy ass shoulder rehab work. However, I know I have to do it, so I do it.

Squaggleboggin · 11-24-2005, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Believe me, I feel your pain. There is something annoying about doing panzy ass shoulder rehab work. However, I know I have to do it, so I do it.

Exactly. Which exercises do you do? I was thinking of things like YTAs and maybe some internal and external rotation stuff (arm at 90° with elbow at side, rotate in towards stomach and out towards side). Maybe some flexion and abduction work would be a good idea as well.

**CowPimp** · 11-24-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

Exactly. Which exercises do you do? I was thinking of things like YTAs and maybe some internal and external rotation stuff (arm at 90° with elbow at side, rotate in towards stomach and out towards side). Maybe some flexion and abduction work would be a good idea as well.

I just run through the gamut of shoulder articulations: flexion, extension, external and internal rotation, and abduction. I then follow up with another movement like maybe face pulls, lateral raises, etc.

Squaggleboggin · 11-24-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I just run through the gamut of shoulder articulations: flexion, extension, external and internal rotation, and abduction. I then follow up with another movement like maybe face pulls, lateral raises, etc.

High reps and low weights, I presume? I was thinking 2x10 for each articulation or something like that - it shouldn't take up too much time but should still give me some results or at least a little protection from injury. I'm going to eventually have to move up in weight if I want some real protection though - I'm talking about not messing myself up doing heavy olympic movements.

11-23-2005, 06:15 PM	#1
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Shoulders Undertrained? I would do some sort of overhead pressing being that I'm all for functional strength, but my left shoulder simply won't allow this, and I'd really prefer not to try and get injured in the process. I'm here to ask whether the exercises I do are enough for the shoulders (as in, they won't get disproportionally unbalanced strength-wise). The following is a list of exercises that involve my shoulders that are incorporated into my routine: Pull ups, chin ups, yates rows, reverse thumbless bottom BB benches (and I suppose front squats put pressure on them, but don't really work them). Does this seem like it's enough or do I really need to incorporate something else (most likely an overhead press)? Thanks for the feedback.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

11-23-2005, 06:23 PM	#2
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544	So you do no direct shoulder work now???
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544

11-23-2005, 06:30 PM	#3
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,881 Photos: 10	Yeah, none of that is direct shoulder work, I imagine they would eventually get out of proportion. For me I know they would. Why can't you do any, even light, overhead pressing? You could prolly do front raise, lateral raise, rear delt raise to nail all 3 heads I s'pose, but I can't see an effective shoulder program without overhead pressing. Maybe if you did light overhead pressing your shoulder would eventually build up strength for the movement. I would rather do 10lbs presses than not be able to do it at all. So wtf is wrong with your left shoulder?
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

11-23-2005, 07:33 PM	#6
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Strange how I didn't think of that even though I'm of the small minority that believes DBs are superior to BBs. Good thinking.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

11-23-2005, 08:03 PM	#7
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	Be more specific about the issue with your shoulder. I'm also recovering from an issue, but I just slowly added weight over the course of several weeks. I started around 15 rep sets, moved to 10 for a while, and now I can do 5-7 if I make absolutely sure I keep my form on point. You may also consider some exercises to increase the integrity of the shoulder capsule. Rotator cuff stuff is a good idea.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

11-23-2005, 07:07 PM	#5
dougnukem The American Dream Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Fort Walton Beach, FL Posts: 1,802 Photos: 6	What about using DBs at a lower weight for overhead presses? I've had a nagging shoulder injury for years that I keep at bay with the use of DBs as opposed to BB workouts. I've been able to increase my lifting weights significantly w/ this approach.

11-23-2005, 08:58 PM	#9
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,354	I would take cows advice... most shoulder injuries seem to involve the rotator cuff. Get a good list of strengthening exercises and use them.
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11-24-2005, 12:42 AM	#10
TheCurse Barbell Ninja Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dago Posts: 767 Photos: 6	i dont do overhead presses and have never had them in my routines. i do however make sure to always to do direct rear delt work on back day and lateral delt work on chest day. i just happen to think it looks funny when your shoulders are pulled forward onto your pectorals.
	Still Alive.

11-24-2005, 12:47 AM	#11
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	You should also consider DB overhead presses with a hammer grip. Sometimes this helps reduce the strain on the shoulder capsule.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

11-24-2005, 10:22 AM	#12
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Would a BB military press be enough? It doesn't look as though there is any single compound movement that hits each area of the shoulder (if there is, please tell me), and since I love compound stuff, I prefer to keep all my exercises compound. I'm thinking that since the military press hits the lateral deltoid and the chin up hits the posterior deltoid, I should be in pretty good shape. I'm thinking of trying snatches soon, but I need to make sure my shoulder can handle the weight in that position and I want to start strengthening it as soon as possible, even if the movement is unrelated. Thanks for all the help.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

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