Thread: Looking for perfect backroutine

Originally posted by pumpit
Im on a break right now and im looking for a different back routine that has worked for others.

This was my old routine:
BACK:

pullups: 6,6,6,4 reps
rows: 8,8,6,4
shrugs: 10,8,6,6

TRI'S

tri pushdown: 8,8,6,6
tri pushups: 10,10,10,10

Please consider that I am a beginner/intermediate and aming for mass.

Here's the change...


Week 1:
-deadlifts(if you have a power rack, do partials starting just below the knees)...3 x 4-6
-bent row...3 x 6-8
-seated pully row CG...3 x 8-10
-dumbell pullover...3 x 10-12

Week 2:
-deadlift...3 x 4-6
-chins...3 x 6-8(use weight if neccessary)
-seated pully row WG...3 x 8-10
-one arm dumbell row...3 x 10-12

*repeat week to week for 2 months
*gotta do deadlifts for a BIG BACK

Good luck!

sounds good to me

I think your old routine would be super, smashing, great if you just dropped down to about 2 sets per exercise.

Gopro, why make him do two different types of "horizontal" row?

And am i to understand you advocate doing deads first from that recommendation?

deads for me first meant a great start to a intense workout.but it also meant that the rest of the upper and lower back muscles have been ''prefatigued''.if i had a lagging back muscle, then i'd train that first then do deads.and as a former powerlifter, we always foucsed on deads first..IMHO...

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
I think your old routine would be super, smashing, great if you just dropped down to about 2 sets per exercise.

Gopro, why make him do two different types of "horizontal" row?

And am i to understand you advocate doing deads first from that recommendation?

This routine has worked wonders for many of my clients. This is why I gave it to him.

I advocate deads first for several reasons..
-they are grueling and should be done when you are freshest
-they are one of the best overall mass builders in existence and should be done when top poundages can be used
-heavy deads will actually make you stronger in your next exercise...so you can put a weaker exercise in position 2 and it will get stronger

Originally posted by gopro

-heavy deads will actually make you stronger in your next exercise...so you can put a weaker exercise in position 2 and it will get stronger

How does this work then?


btw, answer my row question.

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy



How does this work then?
Its called "post activation"...read anything by researcher Michael Gundill...


btw, answer my row question.

The rows I recommend will work different pools of motor units in the back muscles. I know you don't believe it, but there isn't anything I can do to help you anymore my friend.

Nah, i'm genuinely interested in your opinion man.

I'll argue about the chest, but the back is collectively several muscles so it's a different ball game.

Gimme some more detail of your reasoning.

training the back correctly requires that you hit it from a varitey of angles with varried grips. Believe that the back responds best to HEAVY basic exercises. This is one of my favorite routines. Brutal, but it has always worked for me.

Deadlifts-5 sets (last set to failure) 5-10 reps
Chins- 3 sets bodyweight (usually 4-10)
Barbell Rows-3 sets 6-10 reps
Dumbell Rows or Seated Cable Rows- 2-3 sets 8-12 reps
Close Grip Pulldowns or Behind Neck Pulldowns 8-12 reps

It seems like alot of volme, but actually only the last set or two of eac exercise is to complete failure. I change it up by switching the way i do rows. EX Barbell rows i switch to an underhand grip,
Or i substitute t bar rpws for dumbell rows. Sometimes i use drop sets, sometimes just heavy straight sets. Lift HEAVY and form is everything, you have to feel the back working....Good Luck, Hope i could help

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Nah, i'm genuinely interested in your opinion man.

I'll argue about the chest, but the back is collectively several muscles so it's a different ball game.

Gimme some more detail of your reasoning.

What more do you need to know :o

Yeah, I agree - I am a genius aren't I?

But seriously, why ask him to do bent over rows and seated pulley rows?

and why seated pulley rows and one arm rows?

Bent rows with a wide grip will work the back differently than seated rows with a close grip, as will one arm rows with its neutral grip and pully rows with a wide grip...

...man, haven't you learned anything yet?

clearly not.

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
clearly not.

cleary...

the routine posted by Go would be more effective if he told us how advanced he is. Why bother with "different motor units" if he is not advanced?
If he is under a 190 pounds I see no reson to start throwing in different variations of rows. Just lift and stick to the basics.

Originally posted by Maki Riddington
the routine posted by Go would be more effective if he told us how advanced he is. Why bother with "different motor units" if he is not advanced?
If he is under a 190 pounds I see no reson to start throwing in different variations of rows. Just lift and stick to the basics.

Wow Maki...you consider that an advanced routine...hmmm, beginning to wonder about you...

This is my routine.
BB rows, 3 sets- 5, 6, 8
weighted chins, 3 sets- 5, 6, 8
seated cable rows, 3 sets of 8
As always keep the intensity high and watch it grow!

Originally posted by gopro



Here's the change...


Week 1:
-deadlifts(if you have a power rack, do partials starting just below the knees)...3 x 4-6
-bent row...3 x 6-8
-seated pully row CG...3 x 8-10
-dumbell pullover...3 x 10-12

Week 2:
-deadlift...3 x 4-6
-chins...3 x 6-8(use weight if neccessary)
-seated pully row WG...3 x 8-10
-one arm dumbell row...3 x 10-12

*repeat week to week for 2 months
*gotta do deadlifts for a BIG BACK

Good luck!

*** The basics entail a core selection of exercises that are to be repeated each week. You have him rotating exercises which are not the same.

A basic routine would be:

Chins
Deads
Row

K.I.S.S.

He will do better on my routine as suggested. His mind and body will get bored on your routine unless he is a pure beginner.

I gotta go with what Gopro suggested as well, from what I can tell it is simple, Deads/Row/chin with a 2 week variation.

I think even a beginner could do that, I don't see what your argument is guys?

Just the variation thing for me really. Even then i don't care that much.

So you figure that the two-week variation is a waist of time?
Fare enough, I agree that a one or two week routine would work.

The thing I like about the 2 week one is:
You’re less likely to get bored of the routine
I wonder if doing more/different exercises on the 2-week routine would help improve because of the different muscles the exercises use.
What I mean is, if your only doing a one week routine with say 3 or 4 different exercises vs. the two week that uses 7 different exercises, wouldn't you stand a better chance of hitting more of the backs muscle fibers??
I'm also thinking that recovery would be better as your not doing the same movement week after week (except the deads)???

The boredom factor is a genuine one yes, but how anyone can;t stay excited when they're adding weight o reps each week is beyond me.

Put it this way, it takes about 3-4 weeks to become nervously "efficient" at an exercise. It is at this point where the best growth begins. If you switch up so often then you never let your body become acustomed to the movement so the "optimal" growth never really takes off. If you switch constantly then chances are that you will be sore the following morning of every session. Does this mean much? No. Soreness is not an indicator of growth. Also, as your body becomes better at a movement, it's adaption becomes better so recovery is enhanced! this is evident also in the fact that you become less sore the next day after doing the same routine for a while. By switching up you aren;t aiding recovery. (i do have study titles for this somewhere too but i can;t remember where sorry )

And about the muscle fibres, if you're asking more of your body each and every week by adding weight or reps you force your body to recruit maximum fibres. I know gopro says something along the lines of the muscle using less fibres despite adding more weight but this just isn;t true. That would theoretically mean that the muscle does less work to push a heavier weight. That isn;t true.

I might have to disagree just a bit here, Chigs-- while true you're adapting neurally, stress is still being applied to the muscle(s) involved--- this can spur gowth regardless. It may not be *optimal* growth, but its not like they'll be exactly stagnating.

Its easier to guage progress by keeping with a set program, but I can't see it not causing growth.

are you refering to what i said about the first 3-4 weeks?

Yah.

I never said no muscle growth occured during this period, only that "best" growth comes after