military press - smith? free weight?

Duncans Donuts · 11-28-2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

how bout pattern overload syndrome...familiar with that??? keep using the smith.

Regarding so called POS, that's a good point if you're talking about using the smith machine as the ONLY means of training, constantly. People who say that the smith machine is totally useless I just can't agree with....people who supplement it for DBs, BBs or other machines all the time are just being silly.

The13ig13adWolf · 11-28-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

Regarding so called POS, that's a good point if you're talking about using the smith machine as the ONLY means of training, constantly. People who say that the smith machine is totally useless I just can't agree with....people who supplement it for DBs, BBs or other machines all the time are just being silly.

i understand where you're coming from and agree with the point you're trying to make. however, i'm a card toting member of the Smith Machine Haters Club and just don't like it as a whole. i'm not criticizing those who choose to use it by any means. there's just no way in hell i would and i'm entitled to my opinion. it doesn't hurt my feelings that you don't agree. that's the beauty of an open forum

.

Hlanderr · 11-28-2005, 04:44 PM

i dont know what this girl is talking about

im not bitching at other exercises, im bitching about how the smith machine IS useful

you dont even go to failure? how can understand what im talking about then?
as duncan said, its an isolation exercise. when i think of upright rows, i dont think of a compound movement. in other words stabalizer muscles wouldnt even be an issue to really work...

tellin me to ease off....

The Monkey Man · 11-28-2005, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hlanderr

just to make it clear: i asked for advice on free weight military press. get it now asshole? all i said was that exercise is good on your legs. your wise ass comments are not fucking appreciated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hlanderr

On the smith machine, which I have been doing for the past few months, is good, but it doesn't seem to make my shoulders feel it as much as a barbell press. But when doing the barbell press, I am unstable sometimes, and the chair moves around a bit from my pushing. Because of this instability, I can't do as much weight on the barbell than smith machine.

Is one of the two superior? Which ones do you guys do?

And the grand-daddy of all dumbshit statements...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hlanderr

Because of this instability, I can't do as much weight on the barbell than smith machine

Good day to you!

The13ig13adWolf · 11-28-2005, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hlanderr

i dont know what this girl is talking about

im not bitching at other exercises, im bitching about how the smith machine IS useful

you dont even go to failure? how can understand what im talking about then?
as duncan said, its an isolation exercise. when i think of upright rows, i dont think of a compound movement. in other words stabalizer muscles wouldnt even be an issue to really work...

tellin me to ease off....

i assume when you say 'this girl' you're referring to me....

right, so when you do isolation work your stabilizer muscles just stop existing. and b/c i don't go to failure means that i don't know wtf you're talking about....ok.

like i said before, i DON'T think the smith is useful. i think it's an utter waste of perfectly good space where another squat rack or power cage would fit nicely.

The Monkey Man · 11-28-2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The13ig13adWolf

i assume when you say 'this girl' you're referring to me....

right, so when you do isolation work your stabilizer muscles just stop existing. and b/c i don't go to failure means that i don't know wtf you're talking about....ok.

like i said before, i DON'T think the smith is useful. i think it's an utter waste of perfectly good space where another squat rack or power cage would fit nicely.

The13ig13adWolf · 11-28-2005, 04:56 PM

not to mention, upright rows work your traps, shoulders and biceps which make them a compound movement regardless of how you'd like to look at them

.

min0 lee · 11-28-2005, 04:57 PM

I was going to PM you on this but what the hell.
"I just wanted to tell you that I respect it when a female doesn't let a man push them around."

min0 lee · 11-28-2005, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

If an exercise can increase the cross-section of a muscle (hypertrophy), isn't that classified as functionable?

Not what I'm talking about, it was mentioned here before but that was then.

no need to go further with it.

The13ig13adWolf · 11-28-2005, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I was going to PM you on this but what the hell.
"I just wanted to tell you that I respect it when a female doesn't let a man push them around."

thanks min0. i'm actually just waitin' for my balls to drop

.

The Monkey Man · 11-28-2005, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The13ig13adWolf

thanks mino. i'm actually just waitin' for my balls to drop

.

Min0 can help you with that -

Seanp156 · 11-28-2005, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The13ig13adWolf

thanks min0. i'm actually just waitin' for my balls to drop

.

Wolf, you crack me up

.

dougnukem · 11-28-2005, 05:25 PM

Can't we all just get along? Everything in the gym can have some use, except maybe the Bowflex. Oops, that's another thread. hee, hee.

min0 lee · 11-28-2005, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The13ig13adWolf

thanks min0. i'm actually just waitin' for my balls to drop

.

Seanp156 · 11-28-2005, 05:33 PM

I can see the smith machine being alright for rehab work, especially if you've just had a very serious injury, but whether that would be more beneficial than using very light weight with DB's or BB's, I don't know. If there's nothing wrong with you physically however, I don't understand why you would use a smith machine.

**Dale Mabry** · 11-28-2005, 06:06 PM

I like the smith machine for bench throws. Other than that it is just the piece of equipment next to the squat rack.

The Monkey Man · 11-28-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanp156

I can see the smith machine being alright for rehab work, especially if you've just had a very serious injury, but whether that would be more beneficial than using very light weight with DB's or BB's, I don't know. If there's nothing wrong with you physically however, I don't understand why you would use a smith machine.

Because he can put more weight on it... Uh-Duh -

Seanp156 · 11-28-2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey Man

Because he can put more weight on it... Uh-Duh -

Even that may not always be true.

Hlanderr · 11-28-2005, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey Man

Because he can put more weight on it... Uh-Duh -

wolf.... it appeared that some people took this argument as a sexest thing, when that was not what i meant to imply at the slightest.... i hope you didnt take this at all that way..... i was just defending what i thought was right

you, you fucking prick, and you know who im fucking talking to, needs to get a fucking life. i know youll read this casue you have nothing better to do with your life. you havnt posted one thing regarding my question (no shit, you posted some shang clean, where yo throw it up when you squat) and have only thrown in your gay little comments.... waste of time. fucking idiot

**P-funk** · 11-28-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hlanderr

wolf.... it appeared that some people took this argument as a sexest thing, when that was not what i meant to imply at the slightest.... i hope you didnt take this at all that way..... i was just defending what i thought was right

you, you fucking prick, and you know who im fucking talking to, needs to get a fucking life. i know youll read this casue you have nothing better to do with your life. you havnt posted one thing regarding my question (no shit, you posted some shang clean, where yo throw it up when you squat) and have only thrown in your gay little comments.... waste of time. fucking idiot

? (military press - smith? free weight?)

**CowPimp** · 11-28-2005, 09:27 PM

DD has a fair opinion. I forget this is a bodybuilding forum sometimes. I think too much in terms of function. I feel you may as well train for function and eat for form, but to each his own.

He is right that there are some smith machines that don't just move straight up and down, which does help to some degree. Even so, I would rather just use another machine that is designed for the particular movemnet in question that more closely matches a natural movement pattern but still eliminates the need to involve stabilizer muscles. In theory, machines should allow for a more forceful contraction from the primary movers involved, which is where DD was going I believe.

PWGriffin · 11-28-2005, 09:55 PM

I hurt my back very badly doing smith machine squats....without the free range of motion you have with free weights...and the somewhat unnatural movement, it's very easy to put ur joints in a serious bind...I would be willing to bet that if you used the smith for ur shoulder presses long enough you could injure ur shoulder as well, between the binding movement and weakened stabilizers...as far as ancillary fatigue...that's not a problem if you make ur compound movements first or second in ur workouts...

As far as shoulder pressing on a smith is concerned, I'm speaking from experience here...I could put considerably more weight on the smith for military, BUT I didn't really grow stronger on the exercise, even doing it first every shoulder day...EVEN WHEN I WAS ON TEST E...I just don't think it's very good at all. Since I've been pressing with either a barbell or the hammer strength military press and doing arnolds second....My strength has increased tremendously...and my bench has gone way up in conjunction with my shoulders...I think anything that incorporates more muscles for stability is going to be a much better strength and mass builder...

And about ur comment to wolf...I don't think she took it as sexest, just kinda rude...almost personal. (how could YOU understand?) Remember not everyone trains to failure...some BBer's swear by it.

min0 lee · 11-28-2005, 10:02 PM

I read the first line and went no further, squats on a smith has to be the most unnatural movement ever.

**Prince** · 11-28-2005, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The13ig13adWolf

like i said before, i DON'T think the smith is useful. i think it's an utter waste of perfectly good space where another squat rack or power cage would fit nicely.

it has its uses just as many machines do.

PWGriffin · 11-28-2005, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I read the first line and went no further, squats on a smith has to be the most unnatural movement ever.

it was a few years ago

11-28-2005, 04:44 PM	#33
Hlanderr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 774	i dont know what this girl is talking about im not bitching at other exercises, im bitching about how the smith machine IS useful you dont even go to failure? how can understand what im talking about then? as duncan said, its an isolation exercise. when i think of upright rows, i dont think of a compound movement. in other words stabalizer muscles wouldnt even be an issue to really work... tellin me to ease off....
Hlanderr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 774

11-28-2005, 04:56 PM	#37
The13ig13adWolf IM Ball Buster Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: I win... Posts: 1,367	not to mention, upright rows work your traps, shoulders and biceps which make them a compound movement regardless of how you'd like to look at them .
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11-28-2005, 04:57 PM	#38
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 33,780 Blog Entries: 3 Photos: 542	I was going to PM you on this but what the hell. "I just wanted to tell you that I respect it when a female doesn't let a man push them around."
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11-28-2005, 05:33 PM	#45
Seanp156 Myostatin Whore Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 6,274 Photos: 11	I can see the smith machine being alright for rehab work, especially if you've just had a very serious injury, but whether that would be more beneficial than using very light weight with DB's or BB's, I don't know. If there's nothing wrong with you physically however, I don't understand why you would use a smith machine.
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11-28-2005, 06:06 PM	#46
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,881 Photos: 10	I like the smith machine for bench throws. Other than that it is just the piece of equipment next to the squat rack.
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11-28-2005, 05:25 PM	#43
dougnukem The American Dream Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Fort Walton Beach, FL Posts: 1,802 Photos: 6	Can't we all just get along? Everything in the gym can have some use, except maybe the Bowflex. Oops, that's another thread. hee, hee.

11-28-2005, 09:27 PM	#51
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	DD has a fair opinion. I forget this is a bodybuilding forum sometimes. I think too much in terms of function. I feel you may as well train for function and eat for form, but to each his own. He is right that there are some smith machines that don't just move straight up and down, which does help to some degree. Even so, I would rather just use another machine that is designed for the particular movemnet in question that more closely matches a natural movement pattern but still eliminates the need to involve stabilizer muscles. In theory, machines should allow for a more forceful contraction from the primary movers involved, which is where DD was going I believe. Last edited by CowPimp : 11-28-2005 at 11:20 PM.
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11-28-2005, 09:55 PM	#52
PWGriffin The Damned Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: birmingham alabama Posts: 1,609	I hurt my back very badly doing smith machine squats....without the free range of motion you have with free weights...and the somewhat unnatural movement, it's very easy to put ur joints in a serious bind...I would be willing to bet that if you used the smith for ur shoulder presses long enough you could injure ur shoulder as well, between the binding movement and weakened stabilizers...as far as ancillary fatigue...that's not a problem if you make ur compound movements first or second in ur workouts... As far as shoulder pressing on a smith is concerned, I'm speaking from experience here...I could put considerably more weight on the smith for military, BUT I didn't really grow stronger on the exercise, even doing it first every shoulder day...EVEN WHEN I WAS ON TEST E...I just don't think it's very good at all. Since I've been pressing with either a barbell or the hammer strength military press and doing arnolds second....My strength has increased tremendously...and my bench has gone way up in conjunction with my shoulders...I think anything that incorporates more muscles for stability is going to be a much better strength and mass builder... And about ur comment to wolf...I don't think she took it as sexest, just kinda rude...almost personal. (how could YOU understand?) Remember not everyone trains to failure...some BBer's swear by it.

11-28-2005, 10:02 PM	#53
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 33,780 Blog Entries: 3 Photos: 542	I read the first line and went no further, squats on a smith has to be the most unnatural movement ever.
	How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper BONECRUSHER '08