strength + frequency

MWpro · 12-17-2005, 02:00 AM

For strength increases, it is better to workout more frequently on those lifts as opposed to having a 4-day split routine in which each muscle is hit primarily once a week?

(if my goal is strength, should I be hitting each bodypart more than once a week?)

Yanick · 12-17-2005, 05:09 AM

bodybuilders are the only people who think in terms of working bodyparts. when athletes train, they don't train specific bodyparts, they train movements or specific skills/types of strength that are required for whatever their goals are.

for example
a bb'er would think day 1 chest/shoulders/tri's
a powerlifter would think bench day
an oly lifter might think oh press/jerk day

the reason it seems stuff programs like westside hit each bodypart twice a week (which technically they do), but to powerlifters one day is a strength bench day and the other is a speed bench day or an oly lifter will have a max day and a technique day/speed day etc.

Thunder · 12-17-2005, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanick

bodybuilders are the only people who think in terms of working bodyparts. when athletes train, they don't train specific bodyparts, they train movements or specific skills/types of strength that are required for whatever their goals are.

Good point.

As for a strength program, a bit more frequency is better. Not just for the whole motor learning/skill development issue either. The whole 'you must train bodyparts once per week' stuff has been bastardized by the bodybuilding community. Regardless of what you read in Flex magazine, once per week frequency is less than optimal for most people.

Provided you’re training fresh and are hitting your muscles with varying stimuli, the more often you stimulate a muscle to grow, the more it will grow. Most people will simply grow better with higher frequency. In addition protein synthesis is back to normal within 36 to 48 hours so if you’re only training muscle groups once every seven days you’re reducing the amount of time you could be growing. It could definitely be argued that frequency is one of the most important factor in your rate of development. That said, there are times when lower frequency is good - say during accumulation phases where the goal is volume as opposed to during an intensification phase where the goal is intensity.

The latter is typically associated with strength training, and training frequency per muscle group is typically 2-3 times per week - say upper/lower or full body splits.

I could go into more, but the short answer is that it's better to hit it more than once per week.

**CowPimp** · 12-17-2005, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder

Good point.

As for a strength program, a bit more frequency is better. Not just for the whole motor learning/skill development issue either. The whole 'you must train bodyparts once per week' stuff has been bastardized by the bodybuilding community. Regardless of what you read in Flex magazine, once per week frequency is less than optimal for most people.

Provided you’re training fresh and are hitting your muscles with varying stimuli, the more often you stimulate a muscle to grow, the more it will grow. Most people will simply grow better with higher frequency. In addition protein synthesis is back to normal within 36 to 48 hours so if you’re only training muscle groups once every seven days you’re reducing the amount of time you could be growing. It could definitely be argued that frequency is one of the most important factor in your rate of development. That said, there are times when lower frequency is good - say during accumulation phases where the goal is volume as opposed to during an intensification phase where the goal is intensity.

The latter is typically associated with strength training, and training frequency per muscle group is typically 2-3 times per week - say upper/lower or full body splits.

I could go into more, but the short answer is that it's better to hit it more than once per week.

I've gotten into way too many arguments about how training with a higher frequency can be beneficial. I say that you should be training as frequently as possible while allowing for full recovery to take place either by reducing the volume of each session or by implementing frequent deloading periods.

There are times when training with a low frequency is good, as you said, during periods of higher volume. However, some people have trouble rationalizing the concept that you can still average the same amount of volume per unit of time yet perform less work for each body part in a session.

TJ Cline · 12-17-2005, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I've gotten into way too many arguments about how training with a higher frequency can be beneficial. I say that you should be training as frequently as possible while allowing for full recovery to take place either by reducing the volume of each session or by implementing frequent deloading periods.

There are times when training with a low frequency is good, as you said, during periods of higher volume. However, some people have trouble rationalizing the concept that you can still average the same amount of volume per unit of time yet perform less work for each body part in a session.

We have gottin into it on this topic a few times..LoL

Right now I am using a new workout with 2x the frequency ( just for upper body, legs I'm running 3-4x a week and lifting once so that's enough work for them)....one day med/high volume high intensity, the other low volume and less intensity+ higher reps.....I am excited to see how it works for me now that I'm 38.....at 18 it was amazing, but back then I did both days at 100% volume and intensity.

Hlanderr · 12-17-2005, 10:02 AM

i agree with ya cowpimp.... lifting immediately after a full recovery is definetly the best way to go....
the one week wait seems to just to be an easy staple to follow in lifting

**CowPimp** · 12-17-2005, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

We have gottin into it on this topic a few times..LoL

Right now I am using a new workout with 2x the frequency ( just for upper body, legs I'm running 3-4x a week and lifting once so that's enough work for them)....one day med/high volume high intensity, the other low volume and less intensity+ higher reps.....I am excited to see how it works for me now that I'm 38.....at 18 it was amazing, but back then I did both days at 100% volume and intensity.

Heh, yeah. It's all good though, I wish you the best of luck.

**gopro** · 12-17-2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWpro

For strength increases, it is better to workout more frequently on those lifts as opposed to having a 4-day split routine in which each muscle is hit primarily once a week?

(if my goal is strength, should I be hitting each bodypart more than once a week?)

If you are looking to increase your strength in certain lifts, then YES, you should be hitting them more frequently...up to 3 times per week in an intelligently put together program.

**P-funk** · 12-17-2005, 04:01 PM

I agree with the high frequency people. As an olympic lifter I train my legs pretty hard 3-4 times per week.

Squaggleboggin · 12-17-2005, 05:52 PM

I agree too. Your routine might look something like this for functional strength:

Day One: - Bar only for technique - Deadlifts, military presses, yates rows, chin ups
Day Two: - Heavy - Front squats, SLDLs, DB benches
Day Three: - Bar only for technique - Clean and presses, farmers' walks, pull ups
Day Four: - Heavy - Deadlifts, military presses, yates rows, chin ups
Day Five: - Bar only for technique - Front jump squats, SLDLs, DB benches
Day Six: - Heavy - Clean and presses, farmers' walks, pull ups
Day Seven: Off

This allows you to work on gaining strength and improving technique while still recovering fully and taking advantage of active recovery.

**P-funk** · 12-17-2005, 06:32 PM

I could never get into going to the gym just to work with the bar. Even when technique lifting you want some sort of resistance on the bar so that you can impart some velocity on it (espcially when practicing explosive lifts like cleans and snatches.).

Squaggleboggin · 12-17-2005, 06:50 PM

Well all I have to do is go downstairs so I don't mind. I also do it in a circuit so it's doing a lot of different things for me.

It is difficult to clean with just the bar, but I do it enough times that it's actually challenging.

MWpro · 12-18-2005, 05:44 PM

Thanks for all the responses everyone. My goal is primarily mass, but on certain lifts I want to increase my strength. I am considering either a full-body type routine or a routine similar to what Foreman described above.

**CowPimp** · 12-18-2005, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWpro

Thanks for all the responses everyone. My goal is primarily mass, but on certain lifts I want to increase my strength. I am considering either a full-body type routine or a routine similar to what Foreman described above.

If you truly care about both, then I suggest lifting for function and eating for form. That is to say, lift using a routine geared toward strength, such as a powerlifting routine, but eat in a positive energy balance so that you gain mass.

The heaviest of powerlifters actually have more lean mass than the heaviest of bodybuilders. The only difference is that the powerlifters don't care about having visible muscle striations. Powerlifting routines will put on muscle mass, just eat.

**P-funk** · 12-18-2005, 06:34 PM

if you eat it it will come.

Triple Threat · 12-18-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

if you eat it it will cum.

12-17-2005, 02:00 AM	#1
MWpro Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 876	strength + frequency For strength increases, it is better to workout more frequently on those lifts as opposed to having a 4-day split routine in which each muscle is hit primarily once a week? (if my goal is strength, should I be hitting each bodypart more than once a week?)
MWpro Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 876

12-17-2005, 05:09 AM	#2
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	bodybuilders are the only people who think in terms of working bodyparts. when athletes train, they don't train specific bodyparts, they train movements or specific skills/types of strength that are required for whatever their goals are. for example a bb'er would think day 1 chest/shoulders/tri's a powerlifter would think bench day an oly lifter might think oh press/jerk day the reason it seems stuff programs like westside hit each bodypart twice a week (which technically they do), but to powerlifters one day is a strength bench day and the other is a speed bench day or an oly lifter will have a max day and a technique day/speed day etc.
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	"...we have to remember that training is a complicated dance of stimuli and response. Our goal is to understand how to manipulate the stimuli in order to evoke the responses we desire." -Nathan J. Polenchek

12-17-2005, 10:02 AM	#6
Hlanderr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 774	i agree with ya cowpimp.... lifting immediately after a full recovery is definetly the best way to go.... the one week wait seems to just to be an easy staple to follow in lifting
Hlanderr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 774

12-17-2005, 04:01 PM	#9
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,625	I agree with the high frequency people. As an olympic lifter I train my legs pretty hard 3-4 times per week.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

12-17-2005, 05:52 PM	#10
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	I agree too. Your routine might look something like this for functional strength: Day One: - Bar only for technique - Deadlifts, military presses, yates rows, chin ups Day Two: - Heavy - Front squats, SLDLs, DB benches Day Three: - Bar only for technique - Clean and presses, farmers' walks, pull ups Day Four: - Heavy - Deadlifts, military presses, yates rows, chin ups Day Five: - Bar only for technique - Front jump squats, SLDLs, DB benches Day Six: - Heavy - Clean and presses, farmers' walks, pull ups Day Seven: Off This allows you to work on gaining strength and improving technique while still recovering fully and taking advantage of active recovery.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

12-17-2005, 06:32 PM	#11
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,625	I could never get into going to the gym just to work with the bar. Even when technique lifting you want some sort of resistance on the bar so that you can impart some velocity on it (espcially when practicing explosive lifts like cleans and snatches.).
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

12-17-2005, 06:50 PM	#12
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Well all I have to do is go downstairs so I don't mind. I also do it in a circuit so it's doing a lot of different things for me. It is difficult to clean with just the bar, but I do it enough times that it's actually challenging.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

12-18-2005, 05:44 PM	#13
MWpro Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 876	Thanks for all the responses everyone. My goal is primarily mass, but on certain lifts I want to increase my strength. I am considering either a full-body type routine or a routine similar to what Foreman described above.
MWpro Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 876

12-18-2005, 06:34 PM	#15
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,625	if you eat it it will come.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

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