Thread: Incorporating Plyometrics into W/O

What are you confused about?

what are you using them for?

what is confusing about them?

How is your base foundation of strength?

Originally Posted by Andy_Massaro

"This is 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50 % pain and 100% reason to remember the name.." - Fort Minor

Amen to that. Fort Minor is the shit!!!!

Originally Posted by LexusGS

Amen to that. Fort Minor is the shit!!!!

haha hell yeah man..


Im trying to condition myself for football ( just begginning to tryout this upcoming summer ) im trying out for cornerback so im trying to improve my jumping..I understand the basics, but I just need to know how to fit it into my workout routine

one source says to do a weight training exercise and then do a plyometric exercise.. others say to do the plyometric exercises on your rest days..

i dunno i just need to know how to still weight train and include plyometrics..

thanks guys for your help and concern

Honestly, I think you need to focus on strength right now. You are at a level of strength where simply getting stronger will do a whole lot for speed.

alright so just forget about plyometrics?

Originally Posted by Andy_Massaro

alright so just forget about plyometrics?

For the time being, I would say yes. You may, however, consider lifting heavier than you do sometimes. I poked my head in your journal and saw you doing 3x12 with flat pyramid loading schemes the whole way through. Heavier weights are more conducive to functional hypertrophy as well as neurological improvements. Granted, I seem to recall that you are fairly new to lifting, so it may not make too much of a difference just yet, but keep it in mind for the very near future.

Originally Posted by Andy_Massaro

alright so just forget about plyometrics?

No... It honestly can make a huge difference in speed, mobility, and jumping. If you want to take part in athletics, fighting, etc. it can make the difference in being 1st or 2nd string.

Originally Posted by SuperFlex

No... It honestly can make a huge difference in speed, mobility, and jumping. If you want to take part in athletics, fighting, etc. it can make the difference in being 1st or 2nd string.

well im trying out for football around may .. I have had no official league experience with football and my school is very competitive with their sports so I want to work my hardest to condition and train to be well prepared to try my hardest for the tryouts..so I dunno what I should do at this point

Originally Posted by Andy_Massaro

well im trying out for football around may .. I have had no official league experience with football and my school is very competitive with their sports so I want to work my hardest to condition and train to be well prepared to try my hardest for the tryouts..so I dunno what I should do at this point

I think this would be even better for you than weights would. Train with weights but not too much. Intense training can stunt your grow anyway... You grow from your joints. Ask a doctor. I'd suggest lifting but not very heavy or with too many sets. I'd buy some jumpsoles and work that and cardio more than anything at this point. When you're 18 I'll give weights the bulk of my attention...

Originally Posted by SuperFlex

I think this would be even better for you than weights would. Train with weights but not too much. Intense training can stunt your grow anyway... You grow from your joints. Ask a doctor. I'd suggest lifting but not very heavy or with too many sets. I'd buy some jumpsoles and work that and cardio more than anything at this point. When you're 18 I'll give weights the bulk of my attention...

alright sounds good thanks man

http://www.jumpusa.com/proprio.htm

im thinking about getting that with the wobble board/ proprioceptor system or whatever its called

Originally Posted by Andy_Massaro

http://www.jumpusa.com/proprio.htm

im thinking about getting that with the wobble board/ proprioceptor system or whatever its called

I own a pair. They work wonders...

k cool thanks alot man

Originally Posted by SuperFlex

I think this would be even better for you than weights would. Train with weights but not too much. Intense training can stunt your grow anyway... You grow from your joints. Ask a doctor. I'd suggest lifting but not very heavy or with too many sets. I'd buy some jumpsoles and work that and cardio more than anything at this point. When you're 18 I'll give weights the bulk of my attention...

Lifting does not stunt your growth. That is such a bothersome myth. It's purely unfounded.

There is no reason to wait until age 18 to hit the weights. I've seen recommendations from national organizations of beginning resistance training at age 7. Obviously we're not talking 1RMs here, but resistance training nonetheless.

The point I was trying to make is that plyometrics is only going to allow you generate what force you are capable of generating faster. If you cannot generate that much force (Lacking muscular strength), then plyometrics are going to give limited results.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

The point I was trying to make is that plyometrics is only going to allow you generate what force you are capable of generating faster. If you cannot generate that much force (Lacking muscular strength), then plyometrics are going to give limited results.

I understand what youre saying now

If you want power for football, try weightlifting. Go out and buy The Weightlifting Encyclopedia by Arthur Drechsler right now, read the introduction, and tell me you're not convinced. And I'm talking about real weightlifting, as in the C&J. Start slow and once you get going, you'll be amazed at the strength and speed (which combine to make power, in essence) you'll achieve. Good luck.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Lifting does not stunt your growth. That is such a bothersome myth. It's purely unfounded.

There is no reason to wait until age 18 to hit the weights. I've seen recommendations from national organizations of beginning resistance training at age 7. Obviously we're not talking 1RMs here, but resistance training nonetheless.

The point I was trying to make is that plyometrics is only going to allow you generate what force you are capable of generating faster. If you cannot generate that much force (Lacking muscular strength), then plyometrics are going to give limited results.

Yes it does... or can...

Originally Posted by SuperFlex

Yes it does... or can...

No, it doesn't. This myth will not die! Show me one study that says such a thing.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/073...books&n=283155

im thinking about getting that book

Originally Posted by CowPimp

No, it doesn't. This myth will not die! Show me one study that says such a thing.

I can personally say so. I'm 5'11. At birth doc said I'd be 6'5. He got both my bother and sister correct(6'3 and 5'10). I stopped growing in height at 16 when I really started killing the weights... Again, you grow from your joints...

Originally Posted by Andy_Massaro

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/073...books&n=283155

im thinking about getting that book

Why not?...

It is a myth. Period. Doctors really can't predict height to any significant accuracy and consistency. Sometimes they're correct, other times they're very off.

If you don't have enough calories, your muscles won't grow. They're not going to 'steal' the calories from your other vital processes in order to get bigger or stronger. Notice how people can live on X amount of calories. When they start training, if they don't up their calories, their muscles won't grow. I have never heard of someone maintaining the same level of calory consumption and then not growing vertically because their muscles are growing.

I may have explained this somewhat incorrectly, but it is 100% a myth. And what's this "you grow from your joints" mean? Your bones lengthen when you grow, it's not from your joints growing larger and pushing the bones farther apart or something. Not that this doesn't happen to some extent, but it really pales in comparison to the growth of the bones.

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

It is a myth. Period. Doctors really can't predict height to any significant accuracy and consistency. Sometimes they're correct, other times they're very off.

If you don't have enough calories, your muscles won't grow. They're not going to 'steal' the calories from your other vital processes in order to get bigger or stronger. Notice how people can live on X amount of calories. When they start training, if they don't up their calories, their muscles won't grow. I have never heard of someone maintaining the same level of calory consumption and then not growing vertically because their muscles are growing.

I may have explained this somewhat incorrectly, but it is 100% a myth. And what's this "you grow from your joints" mean? Your bones lengthen when you grow, it's not from your joints growing larger and pushing the bones farther apart or something. Not that this doesn't happen to some extent, but it really pales in comparison to the growth of the bones.

How tall are you?

About 6' and I've grown at least a few inches since I started lifting.

Again, show me something scientific to back up your claim and maybe I'll consider it to be true. There were studies performed in Easter Europe between the heights of weightlifters vs. nonweightlifters starting from the age of 7 and none of the scientists could find any different patterns in height. I can quote the book if you really don't believe me, or you could buy a copy of The Weightlifting Encyclopedia by Drechsler.

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

About 6' and I've grown at least a few inches since I started lifting.

Again, show me something scientific to back up your claim and maybe I'll consider it to be true. There were studies performed in Easter Europe between the heights of weightlifters vs. nonweightlifters starting from the age of 7 and none of the scientists could find any different patterns in height. I can quote the book if you really don't believe me, or you could buy a copy of The Weightlifting Encyclopedia by Drechsler.

There are numerous studies that show it can stunt growth. NUMEROUS... I don't need to post one. I am speaking from personal experience. Not to meantion what a doctor said. He is also the one who said your bones grow from your joints. Maybe it doesn't stunt everyone's growth. Who knows.

Anyway on this I'd follow what a doctor has to say. Hopefully he knows what he's talking about. There's an idea, ask your doctor...

Originally Posted by SuperFlex

There are numerous studies that show it can stunt growth. NUMEROUS... I don't need to post one. I am speaking from personal experience. Not to meantion what a doctor said. He is also the one who said your bones grow from your joints. Maybe it doesn't stunt everyone's growth. Who knows.

Anyway on this I'd follow what a doctor has to say. Hopefully he knows what he's talking about. There's an idea, ask your doctor...

Better yet, ask any competent sports medicine doctor. I guarantee s/he will agree with me. If the studies are so numerous, simply post one. It's not that hard and if you want to have any merit with this argument, you do need to post one. Obviously your bones grow from your joints, but that's not what I thought you were talking about. It doesn't stunt growth. It's that simple.

First of all, saying I perform X activity, and I have Y characteristic, so X must lead to Y is invalid. I could say the same thing about all kinds of stuff. In fact, I could infer the opposite of you based on my past.

I ended up doing some resistance training when I was younger. This is when i wrestled my freshman year of high school and took weight training class. Although only briefly, this was also the time I hit a growth spurt and grew about 8 inches in 3 months. I also ended up being 7+ inches taller than my dad and 8+ inches taller than my mom by the end of my growing, which consisted of an additional 2-3 inches.

So, by your logic I should infer that resistance training made me taller. Of course, we all know this is a load of horseshit too. That isn't the case, and your observations are far from controlled. Way too many variables here, and not a large enough case study (Just you).

Originally Posted by SuperFlex

There are numerous studies that show it can stunt growth. NUMEROUS... I don't need to post one. I am speaking from personal experience. Not to meantion what a doctor said. He is also the one who said your bones grow from your joints. Maybe it doesn't stunt everyone's growth. Who knows.

Anyway on this I'd follow what a doctor has to say. Hopefully he knows what he's talking about. There's an idea, ask your doctor...

Now you're just lying. Find one study that directly correlates resistance training to growth. I read one study where in some Eastern country a group of people performing hard manual labor for many hours a day were relatively short. Of course, the study also noted that their diet was garbage and they were probably malnourished. Hardly a controlled study.

Your bones grow from your bones, but the epiphyseal plates are at the ends of the bones where the joints are. However, they don't actually grow from your joint; he just said that to simplify the explanation.

Furthermore, doctors cannot accurately predict how tall you are going to be. It is a function of genetics and nutrition. Unless the doctor knows how you will be eating the duration of your growing years and also understands the human genome better than the molecular biologists who mapped the whole thing out, he cannot determine your height with any kind of accuracy. He can get lucky though.