Questions from a beginner

**Muck** · 01-05-2006, 08:56 PM

I've just recently re-started my training after a few months of barely doing anything (I was being stupid and just didn't feel like going to the gym). I have about 2 1/2 months of serious gym experience - going about 5 times a week. However I have some problems that need to be addressed and questions that I would like answered. A friend of mine referred me to this forum. Alright, so here's some info:

I weight a little less than 150 lbs - I've got a decent amount of body fat, I do have "love handles" and a small pot belly. I'm 20, roughly 5 feet 8 inches tall. I have a very weak upper body (max bench press is like 80ish lbs), however my legs are quite strong thanks to years of refereeing soccer. Anyhow - my goals, in order of importance are as follows:

1. Lose the weight that I gained during my period of inactivity.
2. Be able to have decent overall strength.
3. Gain enough muscle mass to be walking around at between 150-165 lbs.
4. Lower body fat, tone muscle and then just maintain a relatively lean and cut body after bulking up.

I do not have the money to buy supplements and would much rather prefer to just adjust my diet and buy protein bars (which I can get cheap). My money is spent on my university tuition (mostly). Anyhow, I like being fit and am ashamed that I let myself gain 7-8 pounds of fat over a a period of 4-5 months. I'm friends with some fairly serious gym dudes, but they don't know much about diet and the program that they've helped me design doesn't seem to be working too well. They helped me make a 3day split. I go to the gym Monday through Friday, resting on the weekends, although I might be going in on Saturdays as well.

I've made changes to the program and I plan to start this edited program next week, so here it is:

Exercise - Sets/Reps

Day 1 - Legs

Squat - 4/6 - heavy weight
Deadlift - 4/6 - heavy weight
Straight Leg Deadlift - 4/6 - heavy weight
45 degree Leg Press - 4/6 - heavy weight
45 degree Calf Press - 4/10 - heavy weight (using leg press machine but just pushing with my calf)

I'm going to rest for 2 minutes in between sets

Day 2 - Chest and Back

Bench Press (flat) - 4/6 - heavy weight (~67 lbs)
Decline Bench Press - 4/6 - heavy weight
Incline Bench Press - 4/6 - heavy weight
Cable Seated Rows - 4/6 - heavy weight
Front Pulldown - 4/6 - heavy weight

I'll also probably put in some wrist curls with dumbbells and reverse wrist curls with dumbbells. Again, 2 minutes rest between sets.

Day 3 - Biceps, Triceps and Shoulders

Super Set 1 - Dumbbell Curls/Cable Pull Down with rope - 4/6 - heavy weight
Upright Row - 4/6 - heavy weight
Super Set 2 - Hammer Curls/One Arm Tricep Extension (dumbbells) - 4/6 - heavy weight
Shoulder Press - 4/6 - heavy weight
Super Set 3 - Assisted Dips/Shoulder Shrugs - 4/6 - heavy weight

Rest is to be 2 minutes between sets and 2 minutes between super sets (i.e. do both exercises then 2 minute rest, repeat).

I stretch after workouts, although I don't know many upper body stretches. I tend not to do any warm up - a habit I should break (recommendations?). I like to end the day with some cardio. 15-20 minutes on the stairmaster or treadmill at a fairly high pace.

As for diet...I don't know. I try to watch my sweets and try not to eat out much. I eat a lot of chicken (mostly chicken breast), consume only whole wheat bread. To be honest, I really don't have much of a planned diet. I try to have a Bio Protein bar after each work out (21g protein, 6g fat, 32g carbs = 310 cal) and 500 ml of chocolate milk (1%, about 350 cal).

Any advice is appreciated.

**Yanick** · 01-05-2006, 09:08 PM

explain your notation for your workouts? what does squat 4/6 heavy weight, mean? how many sets, what percentage of your 1RM are you using, how close to failure are you coming, are you going past failure?

Routine looks okay to me, except you'll want to balance out your pressing vs pulling motions otherwise in a couple of years you'll have that syndrome, i forget what its called but basically it happens when you do too much pressing and all the muscles on the front of your body become tight and you have a hunched over look to you.

i don't really like the way the bodyparts are broken up, but i don't see why it wouldn't work, given enough dedication, consistency and proper form

if you want a complete overhaul, we'll be happy to do it for you though

oh and go to the diet section to find out more about dieting.

**Muck** · 01-05-2006, 09:18 PM

As I wrote above in the first post, 4/6 means 4 sets of 6 reps. To be honest, I haven't done a one rep max for any exercise in a LONG time. The bench figure was an estimate. What is difference between going to failure and going past failure?

I don't remember what I lift for each exercise ... I can get back to you with #s next week. Basically I try to lift enough so that I can barely complete 6 reps. I believe that this is called reaching muscle failure?

You said that you don't like the distribution, how would you change it? You mentioned something about press vs pull imbalance?

I didn't even notice a diet section...I'll check that out soon.

Thanks for the quick reply.

**Yanick** · 01-05-2006, 09:26 PM

1RM's aren't really necessary unless you want to work with percentages which can help but are probably too complicated for you right now. its better to just aim for certain rep ranges and figure out which weights allow you to hit those reps.

going to failure is when you can't perform another rep with proper form, past failure is anything like rest/pause, forced reps, cheat reps etc.

how i would change it? i would do something like push/pull/legs, or if you are able to hit the gym 4x/week, i personally like upper/lower done 2x/week.

the imbalance thing i mention is because you have 12 sets of presses on day 1 and only 8 sets of pulls plus you got shoulder presses and dips on day 3. you're doing like 2-3x more work for the anterior musculature (front) than you are for the posterior (back). basically do more for your back, or less for you front. thats as simple as i can make it.

**Muck** · 01-06-2006, 05:31 AM

Would you mind re-working the program to be more balanced? Perhaps also show me an example of a upper/lower split that you mentioned?

**TJ Cline** · 01-06-2006, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by Muck

going about 5 times a week.

. I go to the gym Monday through Friday, resting on the weekends, although I might be going in on Saturdays as well.

I've made changes to the program and I plan to start this edited program next week, so here it is:

Exercise - Sets/Reps

Day 1 - Legs

Squat - 4/6 - heavy weight
Deadlift - 4/6 - heavy weight
Straight Leg Deadlift - 4/6 - heavy weight
45 degree Leg Press - 4/6 - heavy weight
45 degree Calf Press - 4/10 - heavy weight (using leg press machine but just pushing with my calf)

I'm going to rest for 2 minutes in between sets

Day 2 - Chest and Back

Bench Press (flat) - 4/6 - heavy weight (~67 lbs)
Decline Bench Press - 4/6 - heavy weight
Incline Bench Press - 4/6 - heavy weight
Cable Seated Rows - 4/6 - heavy weight
Front Pulldown - 4/6 - heavy weight

I'll also probably put in some wrist curls with dumbbells and reverse wrist curls with dumbbells. Again, 2 minutes rest between sets.

Day 3 - Biceps, Triceps and Shoulders

Super Set 1 - Dumbbell Curls/Cable Pull Down with rope - 4/6 - heavy weight
Upright Row - 4/6 - heavy weight
Super Set 2 - Hammer Curls/One Arm Tricep Extension (dumbbells) - 4/6 - heavy weight
Shoulder Press - 4/6 - heavy weight
Super Set 3 - Assisted Dips/Shoulder Shrugs - 4/6 - heavy weight

Rest is to be 2 minutes between sets and 2 minutes between super sets (i.e. do both exercises then 2 minute rest, repeat).

You say you lift 5 days a week yet you only list 3 workouts.....list what you by the day....from what you wrote it looks like you are over training and doing certain exercises back to back that you shouldnt do.

**Yanick** · 01-06-2006, 06:47 AM

i'll do this when i get back from taking my last final, unless someone gets to this before i do.

**Yanick** · 01-06-2006, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Muck

Exercise - Sets/Reps

Day 1 - Legs

Squat - 4/6 - heavy weight
Deadlift - 4/6 - heavy weight
Straight Leg Deadlift - 4/6 - heavy weight
45 degree Leg Press - 4/6 - heavy weight
45 degree Calf Press - 4/10 - heavy weight (using leg press machine but just pushing with my calf)

I'm going to rest for 2 minutes in between sets

-squat or deadlift as your first move and switch up every couple of weeks.
-leg press is okay but i would, personally, change it to a free weight move, front squat or lunge or some other quad dominant leg move.

Day 2 - Chest and Back

Bench Press (flat) - 4/6 - heavy weight (~67 lbs)
Decline Bench Press - 4/6 - heavy weight
Incline Bench Press - 4/6 - heavy weight
Cable Seated Rows - 4/6 - heavy weight
Front Pulldown - 4/6 - heavy weight

I'll also probably put in some wrist curls with dumbbells and reverse wrist curls with dumbbells. Again, 2 minutes rest between sets.

-i would nix the incline press and put overhead pressing there instead
-add some type of high row for more pulling work, IE face pulls 2-3 sets

Day 3 - Biceps, Triceps and Shoulders

Super Set 1 - Dumbbell Curls/Cable Pull Down with rope - 4/6 - heavy weight
Upright Row - 4/6 - heavy weight
Super Set 2 - Hammer CurlsOne Arm Tricep Extension (dumbbells) - 4/6 - heavy weight
Shoulder Press - 4/6 - heavy weight
Super Set 3 - Assisted Dips/Shoulder Shrugs - 4/6 - heavy weight

Rest is to be 2 minutes between sets and 2 minutes between super sets (i.e. do both exercises then 2 minute rest, repeat).

-waaaay too much volume for arms IMO, others might disagree
-shrugs should be done on day 1 or day 2 instead of here
-overhead pressing is also on day 1

my notes are in bold in the quote. i really don't like that program because of the emphasis on arms mostly. it basically comes out to be upper/lower/arms and arms don't really need their own day, unless you do other stuff like stretching or active recovery etc, but a whole workout devoted to arms is overkill.

a basic Upper/Lower split would look like this:

Day 1 Lower - Quad Dominant
Squat - 4 sets
SLDL - 4 sets
Front Squat - 3 sets
Calf Raise - straight leg - 4-5 sets
Core work

Day 2 Rest

Day 3 - Upper - Horizontal Day
Bench Press - 4 sets
Close Grip Bench - 4 sets
Row any variation - 4 sets
Face Pull - 4 sets
Curl - any variation - 2-3 sets

Day 4 - Lower - Ham Dominant
DL - 4 sets
Lunge - 4 sets
Good Morning - 3 sets
Calf Raise - bent leg - 4-5 sets
Core Work

Day 5 rest

Day 6 - Upper - Vertical Day
Overhead Press - 4 sets
Incline DB Press - 4 sets
Pull Down - 4 sets
Pull Over - 4 sets
Overhead Tricep Extension - 2-3 sets

Day 7 rest

Day 8 repeat

Core work can be done at the end of any of those workouts but i put it in at the end of the leg day. i also did a 1on 1off but you can do 2on 1off 2on 2off repeat.

**P-funk** · 01-06-2006, 12:10 PM

who is this yanick guy?

**TJ Cline** · 01-06-2006, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by P-funk

who is this yanick guy?

He is one of my students.

**P-funk** · 01-06-2006, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

He is one of my students.

that explains a lot!

**TJ Cline** · 01-06-2006, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by P-funk

that explains a lot!

**Muck** · 01-06-2006, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

You say you lift 5 days a week yet you only list 3 workouts.....list what you by the day....from what you wrote it looks like you are over training and doing certain exercises back to back that you shouldnt do.

I just do cycles - Monday to Friday. For example, my first week I'd do day 1 on Monday, 2 on Tuesday, 3 on Wednesday, 1 on Thursday and 2 on Friday. Then I'd start with 3 the next Monday, then 1 on Tuesday, etc... It's what my friends recommended.

Yanick - what are those abbreviated exercises? Also, what is a face pull and a front squat? What constitutes "core work"?

What do others think of Yanick's proposed upper/lower split? I usually only go to the gym between Monday and Friday, so anything that I can complete in 5 days that doesn't suffer from all of the beginner errors that I'm making sounds nice.

Can somebody recommend me a site with pictures of exercises so that I can look up the stuff that's being mentioned that I've never heard of before?

**MyK** · 01-06-2006, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Muck

Can somebody recommend me a site with pictures of exercises so that I can look up the stuff that's being mentioned that I've never heard of before?

www.exrx.net

**MyK** · 01-06-2006, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Muck

What do others think of Yanick's proposed upper/lower split? I usually only go to the gym between Monday and Friday, so anything that I can complete in 5 days that doesn't suffer from all of the beginner errors that I'm making sounds nice.

If I was you:

mon - push

tue - cardio

wed - pull

thu - cardio

fri - legs

sat + sun - cardio/off/watch porn/jerk off/whatever!

**Yanick** · 01-07-2006, 12:03 AM

DL = deadlift
SLDL = stiff/straight legged deadlift
DB = dumbell

don't see anything else abbreviated.

Front Squat
This is what most mean when they say SLDL, its actually a Romanian DL, foot placement can vary
-SLDL is actually an oldschool move where your knees are pretty much locked and you round your back to complete the lift.

I can't find a vid of a face pull, but i'm sure you can figure it out if you google it, its a pretty common move among strength athletes.

EDIT: i can't find anything about face pulls damnit!

its basically a row with a row attachment to your chin/face, keeping your elbows high and your body tight.

someone on here has to have a link to a video/picture/description of the face pull.

**kicka19** · 01-07-2006, 01:36 AM

why does someone keep erasing my posts!!!!!?????

**CowPimp** · 01-07-2006, 12:41 PM

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....icle=290hunch2

Scroll down or do a search for face pulls. There's a description in there.

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